Gary Rowett - opinions

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, David said:

That's his style, encourage the opposition to push forward, create spaces that you can exploit on the counter. It's not going to work every game, same applies to every manager and the way they approach games.

Look at McClaren, Martin was pivotal to his system, when we lost him to injury did we look to change things? No, just kept trying the same thing over again.

You can pull games out under Lampard, Rowett, McClaren, Clement, who all could have approached individual games better, end of the day he took us 90 minutes from Wembley so he's not the mug some make him out to be. He's also fairly young so plenty of time to learn from his mistakes and adapt. 

For entertainment value, losing under McClaren's often over cavalier style was much much more entertaining than losing with Rowett's lay down and die style. 

People can talk to me about how Rowett statistically isn't that bad, but at the end of the day, football is about entertainment. And for me and many other fans, Rowettball was one of the worst styles we've had to watch.

Watching Rowett refuse to go for any big games and just defend even when losing was infuriating. Lampard wasn't perfect, but he never shied away from the big games.

We can also talk about his short term view of the transfer window, with his permanent signings quite often being in the twilight of their career (I'm sure you'll quote me on this and say it was only a bit older than Lampard's on average age of signing, but Cole skews that massively). 

[AdamRam]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Dreadful football. No pressure in the middle, generally tend to sit off and give the other team possession, no real great build up play, pretty much just crossing it in to a target man in the middle. He did bring out the best in Matej Vydra to be fair to Rowett, though he sold our best and most technical midfielder for a pathetic 4 million.

Up with Pearson as my least favourite manager in recent memory.

Have to agree that he was up there with the worst for me. The only time I have ever over my 40 odd years watching the Rams considered not renewing my ST, his style of play shouldn’t even be allowed to be called football.

[David]

12 minutes ago, Andicis said:

For entertainment value, losing under McClaren's often over cavalier style was much much more entertaining than losing with Rowett's lay down and die style. 

I won't argue with you there, but the point I was making is managers tend to be stubborn and reluctant to stray from their style, think it's a little harsh to be critical of him for that when the same would apply to every manager. I'm sure Sheffield Wednesday fans saw it under Bruce as well.

Quote

We can also talk about his short term view of the transfer window, with his permanent signings quite often being in the twilight of their career (I'm sure you'll quote me on this and say it was only a bit older than Lampard's on average age of signing, but Cole skews that massively). 

He did have a short term view, to be honest I'm a little torn on this as you only have to look at the average tenure of a manager these days to realise you don't get long in a job. I can understand why managers would show little interest in players for the future and look for the here and now, who can get the job done for us.

Let's say Rowett took us up, would we be complaining of the signings now? Not at all, we would be basking in that Premier League money, the fact it didn't work becomes a point for criticism.

Some will argue it "set us back years"...the following year we was at Wembley, figure that one out. How many of Rowett's signings are we struggling to get rid of and financially constraining us?

Like most, I prefer a younger team, to see them develop and completely on board with what Cocu has been tasked with, hopefully it works out and we don't just see one year completed from a 4 year deal. 

[Cam the Ram]

Positives:

• He's a good talker so from the off there will probably be a good sense of togetherness between the club and fans.
• Can get wins regularly when not playing particularly well.
• He's quite good at setting his teams up when playing away. Under him we only lost 5 away all season in the league, which was the joint fewest with Wolves and Preston.
• He got a striker who'd scored 5 goals the previous season to be the top scorer in the league playing in more of a #10 like role, which is very impressive.

Negatives:

• He doesn't appear to be a fan of the more technical players, which doesn't bode well for someone like Bannan. Rowett told a key player and fan favourite; Will Hughes, that he, "isn't his type of player," and we ended up selling him for what most fans think is well under his value. He signed Palmer on loan in January, another technical player and he regularly came off the bench and looked our best player, but Rowett restricted him to just 2 starts.
• No faith in youth. He signed a couple of younger players in Lawrence and Wisdom, but he also signed Davies (32), Huddlestone (30), Jerome (31) and Ledley (30) on what you'd assume would be big contracts to add to an already old and high paid squad. 
• He made a big point about how Derby was the job he'd been waiting for and he was so happy to finally get it. Midway through the season Stoke were in a relegation battle in the Prem and wanted him, but he signed an improve contract here and rejected them. 6 months later after failing to take us up, he jumps ship to them when they're in the same league as us and just 6 months into his nice new contract. 
• Questionable decisions at times. He allowed Russell to leave midway through the season and didn't sign a replacement. We then hit a poor run of form and he randomly brought in Anya to play who hadn't been seen in months. And towards the end of the season he regularly left our top scorer Vydra on the bench (including during the 2nd leg of the play off).

I reckon he'll do well for you and as @Davidmentioned, his football isn't really a hit long and hope .... it's more of a counter attacking style. Let the opposition have the ball and wait for them to make a mistake, then hit them on the counter. It probably won't suit people like Bannan and Forestieri, but it might re-ignite someone like Winnall who did well here under Rowett, or Rhodes. 

[Pearl Ram]

In short, he’s a Lidl Lampard. ?

[Alph]

1 minute ago, David said:

That's his style, encourage the opposition to push forward, create spaces that you can exploit on the counter. It's not going to work every game, same applies to every manager and the way they approach games.

Look at McClaren, Martin was pivotal to his system, when we lost him to injury did we look to change things? No, just kept trying the same thing over again.

You can pull games out under Lampard, Rowett, McClaren, Clement, who all could have approached individual games better, end of the day he took us 90 minutes from Wembley so he's not the mug some make him out to be. He's also fairly young so plenty of time to learn from his mistakes and adapt. 

Not like Rowett. They all had a bigger game than that. Mac lost more than Martin. He lost Bent, Eustace and Mascarell. That left no DM and no CF. Yeah didn't adapt well but you just lost the center of your team. We would often see a compact centre with Dawkins, Hendrick, Bryson etc playing off Martin or you'd see Wisdom/Cyrus and Forsyth overlapping to provide width. When it came to pressing we would press high but then retreat if we got beat by a pass. 

Lampard orignially came and said he was all about high intensity pressing but there were loads of games where we were doing anything but. 

I don't expect Rowett's style to work every game but if you insist on playing in reaction to what the opposition do then what happens when they don't do it. We were left with percentage hoofball. 

I think Derby under Rowett had a very poor record when coming back from losing positions. A couple of standout games were Wolves away and Sunderland at home. He set us up to suck them in and hit them. Wolves scored and the next 80 minutes was them passing it sideways as we sat in. In the end Neves scored a stunner but it was going to happen when a team sits so deep. 

Sunderland went 1-0 up and started playing on the counter. It lead to an exciting end to end game as we tried to counter their counter and they outscored us. But we didn't build our attacks we just abandoned shape every time they attacked which meant when we lost the ball they were able to punish us. The result was a bit flattering but it showed how Rowett totally relied on the opposition following the script. Going 1-0 down was always a problem for him

And then Fulham in the semi. Two counter attacking performances. He really gambled on their very strong attack failing more often than our rare counters succeeded. Not a hopeless plan but an ambitious one. 

Again at Stoke he went on to build a tight defence and 0-0 was common I think. He goes to a club where the expectation is on them to do the playing and he fails. 

I do agree whenever you say he's not a mug or whatever. He isn't. He's not bad at what he does. But what he does is very specific. 

If you are a weaker side in the league then he's great. If you have lots of talented flair and nice crisp short passers that like to carve out openings then he's the wrong man. He doesn't want Messi he wants Walcott from 5 years ago. 

Anyway, don't start on my Mac. Rowett fanboys are no match for Stevie Macs fanboysch

[AdamRam]

6 minutes ago, David said:

Ooh, be careful up there on that high horse of yours. 

For someone that takes so many swipes at fans below him that use forums, you spend an awful lot of time here trying to educate us mere mortals. I guess we should be thankful that someone of your status and standing in the fanbase graces us with your presence.

You would think if the majority were happy he left there would be no reason for the inflatable snakes, fans would have been buying party hats and balloons. 

Just trying to think of another set of fans that en masse purchased inflatable snakes for a manager they wanted out....fans that were at the game. Struggling....

Who is on a high horse, let’s face it you don’t like it when someone disagrees with your opinion, unless I missed something that shows your view as fact ? I don’t take swipes at fans, I’m not one that labels people doom gloom merchants or happy clappers. 

I have a lot of friends that don’t goto matches, they don’t care about the brand of football, only the results, nothing wrong with that, I also have ones that goto the game and they too couldn’t give a toss about the brand of football only the result, nothing wrong with that either, however they are outweighed by the ones that didn’t like his brand of football and thought it was truly awful, I can only take a straw pole of people I know.

Once again you feel it ok to band people into boxes, fans who call it hoof ball, expecting Barcelona type football blah blah and yet anyone who challenges that view comes in for a barrage of abuse and is accused of trying to educate fans.

As for the snakes, I’m not sure what you are getting at, he got nicknamed the snake and it escalated, are people took one, I didn’t but only because I’m a bit old for that now, in my younger day I’d have been up for it, anything that adds to the atmosphere.

 

[Shang]

Rowett is a functional manager, he selects players based on attributes and their job is to do that one attribute over and over again to get through the game. Vydra was tasked to run behind the lines non stop, Ince was asked to cut inside all the time and Huddlestone was to ping balls over.

There's not much space for creativity but he knows how to make best use of the players he's got. Can look a bit defensive but I feel it was because every player who received the ball was waiting for their opportunity to do their thing in the perfect circumstances. I feel like he plays by percentages, if it's not worth the risk he'll tell the team to not take it.

[GenBr]

If you do appoint Gary then its a guaranteed 6 points you will take from us. We will give you all our plastic snakes just in case you ever play Newcastle.

Gary did well at Burton, Birmingham and with us and I'd expect him to do well with you if you give him a bit of time, but he won't be particularly entertaining for you. I genuinely couldn't make it through some of the games we played under him - very boring, very dull and baffingly bad at times. He did get us in the playoffs though, so deserves some credit for that even if he didn't really follow up on any of his promises regarding youth, etc. Glad he has gone, but wish him the best with Wednesday if they do appoint him. If its promotion at nay cost for you he may well succeed with your lot.

 

[Rev]

Just now, Shang said:

Rowett is a functional manager, he selects players based on attributes and their job is to do that one attribute over and over again to get through the game. Vydra was tasked to run behind the lines non stop, Ince was asked to cut inside all the time and Huddlestone was to ping balls over.

There's not much space for creativity but he knows how to make best use of the players he's got. Can look a bit defensive but I feel it was because every player who received the ball was waiting for their opportunity to do their thing in the perfect circumstances. I feel like he plays by percentages, if it's not worth the risk he'll tell the team to not take it.

Any manager who tells Will Hughes he's not his cup of tea certainly doesn't know how to make the best of what he's got!

He knows his way of playing and who fits and who doesn't granted, but that's not the same.

He's not hoofball though, but he doesn't mind chucking it in the channels and building from there, I'd say he prizes physicality and mobility much higher than technical ability, which is fine for the way he plays.

My problem with Rowetts time was often you'd walk away thinking how on earth did we spank them on balance of play, but when it went wrong it went horrendously so, the Sunderland home and Burton away performances were as bad as anything I've ever seen, certainly when you compared our league position to the opponent's.

[David]

26 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Who is on a high horse, let’s face it you don’t like it when someone disagrees with your opinion, unless I missed something that shows your view as fact ? I don’t take swipes at fans, I’m not one that labels people doom gloom merchants or happy clappers. 

I have a lot of friends that don’t goto matches, they don’t care about the brand of football, only the results, nothing wrong with that, I also have ones that goto the game and they too couldn’t give a toss about the brand of football only the result, nothing wrong with that either, however they are outweighed by the ones that didn’t like his brand of football and thought it was truly awful, I can only take a straw pole of people I know.

Once again you feel it ok to band people into boxes, fans who call it hoof ball, expecting Barcelona type football blah blah and yet anyone who challenges that view comes in for a barrage of abuse and is accused of trying to educate fans.

As for the snakes, I’m not sure what you are getting at, he got nicknamed the snake and it escalated, are people took one, I didn’t but only because I’m a bit old for that now, in my younger day I’d have been up for it, anything that adds to the atmosphere.

Wrong. I enjoy it when people disagree with me because then I can have a conversation with them and debate our views allowing me to understand where others are coming from.

Would be a strange move on my part to open a forum if I wasn't open to discussions? In fact I have discussed openly on many occasions the reason I opened this forum and the terms of use are in place to encourage discussions and avoid a toxic atmosphere that was seen on the DET which prevented discussions.

Today is not the first time you have used a fans on this forum that don't go to games, hence the high horse comment as it's one of your regular swipes. 

It's rather comical listing to Radio Derby callers justify what they are about to say with "I've been a season ticket holder for...." no different on this forum.

Derby County has a global fanbase, not all fans can attend games be it for financial reasons, family, work, health or location but watch games regularly online through RamsTV.

I would not place more value on an opinion from a season ticket holder for 40 years over a fan that watches every game in the US, being at a game does not automatically give anyone a better understanding of the game.

Truth is there is pros and cons to watching a game live or on TV, regardless of how fans choose to watch games they will always be welcome to share their opinions on this forum even if they have never stepped foot in Pride Park. This is not and will never be an exclusive season ticket holder forum.

As for sticking fans in boxes, it was a very loose "boxing" not aimed at any individual fan and used to show that it's completely opposite to possession based football which some prefer. Obviously Derby fans don't want us to literally play like Barcelona. Finally hoofball has definitely been an accusation levelled at Rowett on many occasion which I wanted to cover. 

[Andicis]

48 minutes ago, David said:

I won't argue with you there, but the point I was making is managers tend to be stubborn and reluctant to stray from their style, think it's a little harsh to be critical of him for that when the same would apply to every manager. I'm sure Sheffield Wednesday fans saw it under Bruce as well.

No arguments from me there. 

48 minutes ago, David said:

He did have a short term view, to be honest I'm a little torn on this as you only have to look at the average tenure of a manager these days to realise you don't get long in a job. I can understand why managers would show little interest in players for the future and look for the here and now, who can get the job done for us.

Let's say Rowett took us up, would we be complaining of the signings now? Not at all, we would be basking in that Premier League money, the fact it didn't work becomes a point for criticism.

Some will argue it "set us back years"...the following year we was at Wembley, figure that one out. How many of Rowett's signings are we struggling to get rid of and financially constraining us?

Like most, I prefer a younger team, to see them develop and completely on board with what Cocu has been tasked with, hopefully it works out and we don't just see one year completed from a 4 year deal. 

Again, fair point. They don't get long in the job, but it's almost just delaying the issue. They do well in their first year, but they're left with all of these aging, waning players that they signed the year before. They're going to be left having to fix the issue again. I feel a manager has to have more a long term plan, and risk the sack. 

It certainly didn't set us back years. It wasn't ideal at the time, but we have bounced back comfortably in one year, and are a much more youthful outfit. 

I'm completely on board with everything Cocu is trying to achieve here. Already liking the football, and love the philosophy of not blocking young players. Feels like we've come an age from the days of Rowett.

[Tyler Durden]

Talks a good game. Had delusions of grandeur about his own abilities when he went to Stoke and was found out very quickly. Playoff semi final against Fulham second leg just about epitomised his footballing philosophies or lack of.

Good luck

[SaintRam]

1 hour ago, AdamRam said:

 

Dont buy into that the majority of fans were happy when he signed a new contract, maybe ones that didn’t go to games and didn’t have to sit through his abysmal football and are only interested in results but for me the play off semi summed him up.

I was happy when he signed a new contract, probably evidenced on here, because I'd already been desperately crying out for some stability at the club for some time. I didn't enjoy the football at all, I watched it from home and usually had it on in the background while doing something else. Was ducking dull. Although I did defend it, mostly because I think people will be happier if they try and see the positive spin on things ? 

I was disappointed when he left, but for the sole reason of our lack of stability. In every other regard, I was glad to see the back of him.

[David]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Again, fair point. They don't get long in the job, but it's almost just delaying the issue. They do well in their first year, but they're left with all of these aging, waning players that they signed the year before. They're going to be left having to fix the issue again. I feel a manager has to have more a long term plan, and risk the sack. 

It certainly didn't set us back years. It wasn't ideal at the time, but we have bounced back comfortably in one year, and are a much more youthful outfit. 

I'm completely on board with everything Cocu is trying to achieve here. Already liking the football, and love the philosophy of not blocking young players. Feels like we've come an age from the days of Rowett.

It does delay, but chances are they won't be around to be the one left to fix it, so why would he be bothered?

There are currently only 28 managers in English football that have been in their jobs longer than 2 years, 16+ that have been at their clubs 3 years.

Even Lampard in his first year of management was talking about promotion, managers know that's ultimately what they will be judged on, Rowett knows that, it's why he jumped ship because promotion is also a lot easier with money in the bank which Stoke had. 

I don't blame the managers, I blame the clubs, managers will only start to build long term projects when clubs allow them time to build them.

Hopefully under Cocu that is what we will see because I'm getting sick of these 12 month hit and hope see ya later jobs.

[AdamRam]

10 minutes ago, David said:

Wrong. I enjoy it when people disagree with me because then I can have a conversation with them and debate our views allowing me to understand where others are coming from.

Would be a strange move on my part to open a forum if I wasn't open to discussions? In fact I have discussed openly on many occasions the reason I opened this forum and the terms of use are in place to encourage discussions and avoid a toxic atmosphere that was seen on the DET which prevented discussions.

Today is not the first time you have used a fans on this forum that don't go to games, hence the high horse comment as it's one of your regular swipes. 

It's rather comical listing to Radio Derby callers justify what they are about to say with "I've been a season ticket holder for...." no different on this forum.

Derby County has a global fanbase, not all fans can attend games be it for financial reasons, family, work, health or location but watch games regularly online through RamsTV.

I would not place more value on an opinion from a season ticket holder for 40 years over a fan that watches every game in the US, being at a game does not automatically give anyone a better understanding of the game.

Truth is there is pros and cons to watching a game live or on TV, regardless of how fans choose to watch games they will always be welcome to share their opinions on this forum even if they have never stepped foot in Pride Park. This is not and will never be an exclusive season ticket holder forum.

As for sticking fans in boxes, it was a very loose "boxing" not aimed at any individual fan and used to show that it's completely opposite to possession based football which some prefer. Obviously Derby fans don't want us to literally play like Barcelona. Finally hoofball has definitely been an accusation levelled at Rowett on many occasion which I wanted to cover. 

As I said, and I’ll quote it again for you below, I gave a reason why the people may be happy that he resigned. If a fan doesn’t goto the game and doesn’t have to sit through 90 minutes of GR football they are probably more interested in the result and not the brand of football....why is that having a go at anyone ?

As I also said later in the post if you bothered to read it, there will also be fans that are only interested in the result, and therefore he may float their boat, exactly the same as the fans that stay at home, for some people results are more important than the style of play, however I don’t believe that was the majority.

Not surprising to see an attack on me rather than the content, but I stand by my opinion that people who had to sit through GRs football at the end of a victory we’re more likely to be more disappointed at the way they played rather than someone who just looks at the results on a Saturday afternoon. Don’t worry though, I won’t take offence though, I’ll just add it to the list of topics I avoid now in expectation of such responses.

“maybe ones that didn’t go to games and didn’t have to sit through his abysmal football and are only interested in results”

[AdamRam]

2 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

I was happy when he signed a new contract, probably evidenced on here, because I'd already been desperately crying out for some stability at the club for some time. I didn't enjoy the football at all, I watched it from home and usually had it on in the background while doing something else. Was ducking dull. Although I did defend it, mostly because I think people will be happier if they try and see the positive spin on things ? 

I was disappointed when he left, but for the sole reason of our lack of stability. In every other regard, I was glad to see the back of him.

My point was that a lot of fans became disengaged with the club and the direction it was going under GR. His football for me was dull however there are people who say getting to the PL is the ultimate goal and results are all that matters.

Im a lot older than when I first started to watch the rams, then I was drunk at the majority of the games, I wasn’t bothered about the football only the result, them days have changed for me, I like to see us playing good attacking football, even if it doesn’t come off every time, I loved watching Will Hughes play, he for me and still is was worth the entry fee alone, under GR I got none of that.

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, David said:

Ooh, be careful up there on that high horse of yours. 

For someone that takes so many swipes at fans below him that use forums, you spend an awful lot of time here trying to educate us mere mortals. I guess we should be thankful that someone of your status and standing in the fanbase graces us with your presence.

You would think if the majority were happy he left there would be no reason for the inflatable snakes, fans would have been buying party hats and balloons. 

Just trying to think of another set of fans that en masse purchased inflatable snakes for a manager they wanted out....fans that were at the game. Struggling....

Seems very personal does he owe you money or something

[therealhantsram]

2 hours ago, SWFC_FAN said:

Hello Rams fans, hope all is good. Just came to get your opinions on Gary a Rowett? Like yourselves, Wednesday  have had pre season scuppered by our manager jumping ship to the Premier League. It is becoming increasingly clear that Rowett is going to become our next manager. I’m deflated to say the least, really don’t rate him.

But just wanted some honest views on what we can expect. I know a lot of Derby fans dislike him, I’ve asked my Derby mates and the only responses I got was ‘snake’. Hoping to get more of an idea than that!

Good luck for the season by the way, it seems both clubs are restricted with what they can do due to the stupid FFP rules. Happy with the business you’ve done so far? 

Thought you were getting Coleman? 

[David]

Just now, AdamRam said:

As I said, and I’ll quote it again for you below, I gave a reason why the people may be happy that he resigned. If a fan doesn’t goto the game and doesn’t have to sit through 90 minutes of GR football they are probably more interested in the result and not the brand of football....why is that having a go at anyone ?

As I also said later in the post if you bothered to read it, there will also be fans that are only interested in the result, and therefore he may float their boat, exactly the same as the fans that stay at home, for some people results are more important than the style of play, however I don’t believe that was the majority.

Not surprising to see an attack on me rather than the content, but I stand by my opinion that people who had to sit through GRs football at the end of a victory we’re more likely to be more disappointed at the way they played rather than someone who just looks at the results on a Saturday afternoon. Don’t worry though, I won’t take offence though, I’ll just add it to the list of topics I avoid now in expectation of such responses.

“maybe ones that didn’t go to games and didn’t have to sit through his abysmal football and are only interested in results”

Really struggling with this idea that there is a link between those that go prefer entertaining football compared to those that watch on RamsTV prefer results. 

I could list a number of members that do not regularly go to games that were disgusted with Rowett's football. Likewise I could list others which were disappointed to see him leave, but then you seem to hold a view that fans opinions differ hugely outside this forum so I guess that would be a pointless task.

It comes across as a swipe, and not the first time which is why I picked up on it as I have and will always been defensive over fans right to have an opinion regardless of how they consume their football.