Bart Ramselaar - Joined FC Utrecht

[RamsFan10]

58 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

Don’t judge a player on numbers on ducking transfermarkt is the best way I can answer this...but I really don’t want to open the can of worms that is “assist stats” ?

If i'm honest, I like 99% of us have never seen him play so I have very little else to judge him off. Key pass stats tend to be better indicators of a good creative player, granted, but however you measure up assist stats those numbers are rather low. 

[RamsFan10]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

This guy has caps for The Netherlands in the last few years and there are genuinely people in the thread questioning if he'd be good enough for us?

He has three appearances for the national team. One was for 1 min off the bench, another was for 6 minutes off the bench, and the last was as a starter against Luxembourg. "Caps for the Netherlands in the last few years" is slightly hyperbolising reality. 

I'm not trying to write him off before he's even kicked a ball for us (if he even signs) but it is definitely valid to at least question the signing. 

[Ambitious]

I've done a bit of research on this kid, thanks to a very painful shoulder injury keeping me awake. A few things that I've learnt: 

1) he's a technical footballer, which is what has earned him the reputation he has in the first place. He's very hard working, gets his head down and sees himself as a leader within the dressing room. 

2) Cocu afforded him a lot of chance, more than some PSV fans would've liked. The day Cocu left, it's been very much apparent that Ramselaar had little to no future at PSV due to his playing style. 

3) the big one: his playing style. He's been documented on here as a creative midfielder, although I strongly believe that's probably because he's a slight technical player. One thing that may come as a surprise, when he made his first start for Holland in a World Cup qualification match v Luxembourg, he was the starting defensive midfielder - well at least the deepest placed midfielder. This is part of the reason why Bommel, who likes physical defensive midfielders and goalscoring midfielders has left him out. He's effectively another Will Hughes type player. In our 4-3-3 formation, he would be the link between potentially Beilik and Dowell - most likely going up against Holmes for a starting role. 

4) he was available for a transfer last season, but PSV are looking to recoup a lot of what they spent on him - €4m+. It seems unlikely to me, but a few of their supporters are predicting a fee that exceeds that figure, one even believing that they may well get double that based on the fees of other players moving abroad and the money in English football. It seems that Feynoord amongst others were interested in him both last season and this summer, but the deal never transpired. I think SRG was right with regards to the 'free to leave' comment meaning he would still cost money. It doesn't seem like their stance has changed at all in the past year. 

5) PSV fans are very mixed on him. It's very clear that he's a good footballer, but his inability to actually produce much in the way of goals or assists frustrates them. As I said, it's not like he's on the edge of the box and I would look to Will Hughes as a similar type of player, although Hughes definitely had grit and a dirty side to his game. Collectively, they're in agreement that it's time for him to move on as he's too good to be shunned by Bommel. It's a Rowett/Hughes scenario. 

If he is costly, it could be wise to spend the money elsewhere. Holmes, Shinnie, Sibley & Knight are all in the same boat already. 

[Will Hughes Hair]

12 minutes ago, RamsFan10 said:

He has three appearances for the national team. One was for 1 min off the bench, another was for 6 minutes off the bench, and the last was as a starter against Luxembourg. "Caps for the Netherlands in the last few years" is slightly hyperbolising reality. 

I'm not trying to write him off before he's even kicked a ball for us (if he even signs) but it is definitely valid to at least question the signing. 

Seth Johnson springs to mind, limited time as an England international but he were alright.  And anyway Luxembourg is a big Derby for the Dutch.

 

So there.

[Andicis]

8 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Collectively, they're in agreement that it's time for him to move on as he's too good to be shunned by Bommel. It's a Rowett/Hughes scenario. 

Really informative post, thanks. Sounds like this could be a half decent signing, as Cocu clearly rates him, and he isn't getting a look in at PSV so hopefully would drop his price to reflect that.

[admira]

This is looking unlikely to happen although we are looking for a right-sided midfielder apparently 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Derby-county-opened-talks-psv-3159955

[Arsene Titman]

The article doesn’t  actually say the move is unlikely to happen ( although that may be the case). It just states that the club are not in talks with the player

[Raich Carter]

7 hours ago, RamsFan10 said:

He has three appearances for the national team. One was for 1 min off the bench, another was for 6 minutes off the bench, and the last was as a starter against Luxembourg. "Caps for the Netherlands in the last few years" is slightly hyperbolising reality. 

I'm not trying to write him off before he's even kicked a ball for us (if he even signs) but it is definitely valid to at least question the signing. 

Just being in the squad says a lot. If we had players in the England squad we’d be going crazy. 

Pedigree does not make a great player I suppose but it’s a positive. Looks like we’re about to pay £10m for a lad with zero caps, zero senior appearances for his club and 1 season in League 1. That, on the face of it, feels a bigger risk. 

[Wolfie20]

8 hours ago, TommyPowel said:

Its a wonder that nob ody on here has questioned why we have bid for Bales

If you believe all the tittle tattle surrounding football, one striker always out on the golf course is enough for any club.

[cheron85]

8 hours ago, RamsFan10 said:

He has three appearances for the national team. One was for 1 min off the bench, another was for 6 minutes off the bench, and the last was as a starter against Luxembourg. "Caps for the Netherlands in the last few years" is slightly hyperbolising reality. 

I'm not trying to write him off before he's even kicked a ball for us (if he even signs) but it is definitely valid to at least question the signing. 

Mount got called up for England but didn't even get 1 minute

If you get a call up for a team as good as The Netherlands you've got to have been playing pretty well

And I feel like quite a lot of people need reminding of this - We're in the championship - It's not the top league in the country - In fact there are many major leagues around Europe who have a higher quality then we do - How many players at this level have even come close to the squads for a top international team?

[Topram]

Shame that was what we needed 

[Srg]

I always thought this was unlikely... but if the DET puts out an article like that, might as well take it to the bank that they're going to sign.

[Millenniumram]

So the daily mail was talking poo as per then. We’ll be getting some squad players in though next week I would hope. Definitely sounds like we’re after Clarke as well as bielik, those deals sound like they’ll be announced soon from that article. Says we are after a right winger, which is probably a good call if we’re gonna get shot of Josefzoon.

[Jimbo Ram]

8 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I've done a bit of research on this kid, thanks to a very painful shoulder injury keeping me awake. A few things that I've learnt: 

1) he's a technical footballer, which is what has earned him the reputation he has in the first place. He's very hard working, gets his head down and sees himself as a leader within the dressing room. 

2) Cocu afforded him a lot of chance, more than some PSV fans would've liked. The day Cocu left, it's been very much apparent that Ramselaar had little to no future at PSV due to his playing style. 

3) the big one: his playing style. He's been documented on here as a creative midfielder, although I strongly believe that's probably because he's a slight technical player. One thing that may come as a surprise, when he made his first start for Holland in a World Cup qualification match v Luxembourg, he was the starting defensive midfielder - well at least the deepest placed midfielder. This is part of the reason why Bommel, who likes physical defensive midfielders and goalscoring midfielders has left him out. He's effectively another Will Hughes type player. In our 4-3-3 formation, he would be the link between potentially Beilik and Dowell - most likely going up against Holmes for a starting role. 

4) he was available for a transfer last season, but PSV are looking to recoup a lot of what they spent on him - €4m+. It seems unlikely to me, but a few of their supporters are predicting a fee that exceeds that figure, one even believing that they may well get double that based on the fees of other players moving abroad and the money in English football. It seems that Feynoord amongst others were interested in him both last season and this summer, but the deal never transpired. I think SRG was right with regards to the 'free to leave' comment meaning he would still cost money. It doesn't seem like their stance has changed at all in the past year. 

5) PSV fans are very mixed on him. It's very clear that he's a good footballer, but his inability to actually produce much in the way of goals or assists frustrates them. As I said, it's not like he's on the edge of the box and I would look to Will Hughes as a similar type of player, although Hughes definitely had grit and a dirty side to his game. Collectively, they're in agreement that it's time for him to move on as he's too good to be shunned by Bommel. It's a Rowett/Hughes scenario. 

If he is costly, it could be wise to spend the money elsewhere. Holmes, Shinnie, Sibley & Knight are all in the same boat already. 

Can you go in to a bit more detail please...….give a full overview and not just skim the surface.....

[cheron85]

8 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

So the daily mail was talking poo as per then. We’ll be getting some squad players in though next week I would hope. Definitely sounds like we’re after Clarke as well as bielik, those deals sound like they’ll be announced soon from that article. Says we are after a right winger, which is probably a good call if we’re gonna get shot of Josefzoon.

I'd suggest we're at least 1 winger short in the squad still TBH - So I don't think it'll be a one in one out

[Millenniumram]

11 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I'd suggest we're at least 1 winger short in the squad still TBH - So I don't think it'll be a one in one out

We’re not if we’re keeping both anya and Bennett, but it’ll take a serious turn around for anya to be involved this season so you’re probably right.

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, cheron85 said:

I'd suggest we're at least 1 winger short in the squad still TBH - So I don't think it'll be a one in one out

Lawrence, Bennett, Jozefzoon, Anya (and Whittaker)... 1 out, 1 in makes sense to me.

[Gandalf's shin pads]

Never quite know what to make of articles like this. It might be entirely accurate but sometimes it's more about what isn't said. It just says we are not talking to the player. We may be in contact with the club...

[cheron85]

2 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

We’re not if we’re keeping both anya and Bennett, but it’ll take a serious turn around for anya to be involved this season so you’re probably right.

 

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Lawrence, Bennett, Jozefzoon, Anya (and Whittaker)... 1 out, 1 in makes sense to me.

I admit I've mostly been assuming Anya isn't really a part of the squad - Which may be a little harsh since he seems to keep featuring in pre-season games

I've always said you want 4 wingers who all have different qualities so you can mix things up against full-backs - Swapping them over mid-game or bringing a sub on with different playing style - And for me FloJo and Anya are both quick, winger types, skillful but lacking guile - So i'd be looking for another more creative winger to replace one of them

[Millenniumram]

8 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

 

I admit I've mostly been assuming Anya isn't really a part of the squad - Which may be a little harsh since he seems to keep featuring in pre-season games

I've always said you want 4 wingers who all have different qualities so you can mix things up against full-backs - Swapping them over mid-game or bringing a sub on with different playing style - And for me FloJo and Anya are both quick, winger types, skillful but lacking guile - So i'd be looking for another more creative winger to replace one of them

I did the same until he joined the squad in the US, he appears to be part of the squad now and doesn’t seem likely to be going anywhere.

I agree on the 4 winger account, need two first choice wingers and a couple more for rotation. Winger is one of the main positions where you’re likely to see injuries/tiredness/loss of form, so it’s likely you’ll see a fair amount of rotation there and thus need quality in those 4 wingers. As I say, atm we have 4 wingers already but I’m expecting josefzoon to leave yet (hopefully for reasonably decent money) so we’ll be needing to bring In another man to replace him, and I’m expecting us to do just that, hopefully before Monday.