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So what do we expect this season

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4 hours ago, cheron85 said:

The way you were talking certainly suggested you did... 🙄

I really don't think you know what you're talking about - And whilst I can try and explain it to you, unfortunately I can't understand it for you

  • Uncle Mel has loads of cash monies - He would like to put more of that into the club
  • The main thing preventing that has been FFP 
  • These are all things he said when interviewed by Talksport
  • The sale of the ground gives us a 'profit' in one season's books - Which means we have more room against FFP and therefore increases the amount which Uncle Mel can put in this season

So please do explain again why we have no 'cash' to spend - We're in a better FFP position than we've been in years, we have books balanced and an owner with deep pockets and we have no debts to the bank so our credit position must be pretty handy - Where's the cash flow problem you've invented?

How do you know Mel Morris wants to put more in to the club, or has the wherewithal?  He may be wonderfully rich, but he might well be at the point that enough is enough. He will also have funds invested elsewhere which he doesn’t want to, or can’t, liquidate. Hence why he might be keen to bring in other money, and perhaps why despite any FFP headroom we might not be going out buying players.  

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1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

How do you know Mel Morris wants to put more in to the club, or has the wherewithal?  He may be wonderfully rich, but he might well be at the point that enough is enough. He will also have funds invested elsewhere which he doesn’t want to, or can’t, liquidate. Hence why he might be keen to bring in other money, and perhaps why despite any FFP headroom we might not be going out buying players.  

He has regularly stated his frustration that FFP limited the amount of money he could put in - And stated as such in the interview on Talksport in June 🙂 

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4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I agree with what you're saying. But what I don't (so far) understand is if we have 'cash' but can't spend it how will new investors change that?

It appears that the suggestion is that the new 'investors' will be putting money in to the club in ways other than capital investment, such as sponsorship.

Gibson meltdown incoming if true.

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My prediction is that we'll start really poorly. Cocu will underestimate the pace and power of the league. He'll also fail to realise that when he says 'keep possession', our players hear 'pass it sideways until we give it away'. I reckon we'll be 19th by the end of October.

I think Cocu will learn quickly though. To sure things up, we'll go defensive and look to play on the counter. This will be like watching paint dry, but it'll gradually edge us up the table. We'll be in 12th by new years day. 

In January, we'll recruit two big fast midfielders and a tall striker. We'll play a diamond formation, with either Waghorn or Marriott just behind the new signing. Suddenly everything will click into place and we'll be the form team in the second half of the season - what February wobble? We'll end up 4th and get promoted through the play offs.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/kieranmaguire/status/1114172411631611905

The above tweet seems to suggest Mel didn't put any actual cash into the club for the period stated.

Does anyone know if that's because the income from the stadium sale negated any need for a cash injection because it was actual cash received, or was that just a paper transaction and no actual investment was made?

Sorry in advance for the dumb question.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, HantsRam said:

love a factoid. Sorry you've been harshly treated as you seem fairly knowledgeable...

He does indeed (seem fairly knowledgeable), but if anyone's been harshly treated on this thread... in my opinion..., it's @cheron85, for thinking "cash" meant "cash"!  The response was somewhat patronising to say the least, what with phrases like "OMG, did you really think I meant cash?" and "Get it now"?

His knowledge on this subject certainly seems to be there (though I concede I'm in no position to judge, when it comes to knowledge on ANY subject!), and it's great (to a point) that @Ramleicester is generous enough to offer both his knowledge and opinion, but a little work on his delivery may make the forum a tad more palatable.   

 

EDIT:

Oh yeah... Top ten, but won't be surprised (or suicidal!) if we miss out on play-offs!

Edited by Mucker1884

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23 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

He does indeed (seem fairly knowledgeable), but if anyone's been harshly treated on this thread... in my opinion..., it's @cheron85, for thinking "cash" meant "cash"!  The response was somewhat patronising to say the least, what with phrases like "OMG, did you really think I meant cash?" and "Get it now"?

His knowledge on this subject certainly seems to be there (though I concede I'm in no position to judge, when it comes to knowledge on ANY subject!), and it's great (to a point) that @Ramleicester is generous enough to offer both his knowledge and opinion, but a little work on his delivery may make the forum a tad more palatable.   

 

EDIT:

Oh yeah... Top ten, but won't be surprised (or suicidal!) if we miss out on play-offs!

Thought he got jumped on a bit but didn't pay very close attention to all dialogue so maybe I was mistaken. 

Anyhow, hopefully all friends and gentlemen again now.....😍

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2 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Thought he got jumped on a bit but didn't pay very close attention to all dialogue so maybe I was mistaken. 

Anyhow, hopefully all friends and gentlemen again now.....😍

If I remember rightly, he posted about backroom redundancies and cutbacks etc earlier on, and was pretty much on the money.

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I dont believe what you are saying is correct. You are quoting the headline loss rather than the FFP loss.

I believe that the headline loss can be reduced by something like £5m per annum for academy costs plus there isnt there an amount that can be covered by capital injections?

Never really tried to understand FFP but that was my take on it.

So let's what I have said is wrong, and say we have to reduce losses by £12m could we do it through wages alone?

That's circa £230k per week:-

Blackman 

Johnson

Butterfield

Olsson 

Pearce

Vydra

I'd say the above has us well on the way.

Shift Thorne, Martin and Anya and think we would be way over that £230k per week level.

Add to this the fact that we will no longer have amortisation for the above players.

As silly as it sounds, once the Sam Rush mess has been cleared I think it would be quite possible that the £25m loss becomes less than £12m.

 

The capital injections don't lower the loss. The FFP rules just allow you an FFP loss of 39 mn over 3 seasons if you make certain capital injections.

You may be right on whether I'm quoting FFP loss or operating loss. 

Vydra went in 17/18 and was replaced in 18/19 by Marriott, Malone, Holmes, Waghorn plus wages / loan fees for Mount, Tomori and Wilson (I can't believe that left us with a lower wage bill personally although it was claimed that the expenditure was flat in terms of transfer fees in and out)

Amortisation losses for Butterfield,, Johnson and Blackman all fall in 19/20 due to them leaving post 30 June and so WILL affect FFP for this year (i.e. will need to be taken account of in managing down the loss)

We've tried to shift Martin, Thorne and Anya for over a year and not succeeded. I don't see any reason why we will be more successful now.  Plus the squad is now thin enough that were they to go, they'd need replacing (Anya's FFP depreciation (and any for Thorne) will occur this year too if contracts run out to plan)

Edited by Gritty

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3 hours ago, cheron85 said:

He has regularly stated his frustration that FFP limited the amount of money he could put in - And stated as such in the interview on Talksport in June 🙂 

You can understand his frustration, especially in seasons gone by, and he is no doubt rueful that he couldn’t perhaps have hit it even harder on capital spend in 2015 or 2016 to give us a better % chance of going up. That doesn’t mean though, in 2019, he has the same appetite or ability to keep shelling out.

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1 hour ago, Gritty said:

The capital injections don't lower the loss. The FFP rules just allow you an FFP loss of 39 mn over 3 seasons if you make certain capital injections.

Cheers for clarification, not really paid much attention to what the rules are.

You may be right on whether I'm quoting FFP loss or operating loss. 

Yes pretty sure I am right for once!

Vydra went in 17/18 and was replaced in 18/19 by Marriott, Malone, Holmes, Waghorn plus wages / loan fees for Mount, Tomori and Wilson (I can't believe that left us with a lower wage bill personally although it was claimed that the expenditure was flat in terms of transfer fees in and out)

All fair points.

Amortisation losses for Butterfield,, Johnson and Blackman all fall in 19/20 due to them leaving post 30 June and so WILL affect FFP for this year (i.e. will need to be taken account of in managing down the loss)

That's guesswork on your part. Not sure why we would not take the hot in the 18/19 accounts though assuming that the stadium transaction lowers our FFP losses.

We've tried to shift Martin, Thorne and Anya for over a year and not succeeded. I don't see any reason why we will be more successful now.  Plus the squad is now thin enough that were they to go, they'd need replacing (Anya's FFP depreciation (and any for Thorne) will occur this year too if contracts run out to plan)

Once again guesswork as we have no idea what amortisation has been provided against these certain players already.

 

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On 30/07/2019 at 15:26, G STAR RAM said:

It appears that the suggestion is that the new 'investors' will be putting money in to the club in ways other than capital investment, such as sponsorship.

Gibson meltdown incoming if true.

Hi... in peace lol.

Spot on. If Mel keeps putting cash in it is capital investment not income so ffp would go backwards.

My insight is from dealings with other sports investment and hearing about DCFC interest from active parties looking for a club to invest in. Cant really say any more or I would be shot. Seems to be taking a bit too long though. Good thing is that the club is seen as very attractive mainly due to the strong fan base.

All I heard through that and a more direct source was that MM had for whatever reason grown a bit tired of putting cash in just to cover day to day expenses but not being able to create the playing resources to reach the promised land.

The stadium thing is clever and created ffp breathing space but was a limited vehicle for overall liquidity.  Keep in mind that transfers and the big deals often have a tricky cash lag that has hurt many a club.

Sorry for being grumpy.

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15 minutes ago, Ramleicester said:

Hi... in peace lol.

Spot on. If Mel keeps putting cash in it is capital investment not income so ffp would go backwards.

My insight is from dealings with other sports investment and hearing about DCFC interest from active parties looking for a club to invest in. Cant really say any more or I would be shot. Seems to be taking a bit too long though. Good thing is that the club is seen as very attractive mainly due to the strong fan base.

All I heard through that and a more direct source was that MM had for whatever reason grown a bit tired of putting cash in just to cover day to day expenses but not being able to create the playing resources to reach the promised land.

The stadium thing is clever and created ffp breathing space but was a limited vehicle for overall liquidity.  Keep in mind that transfers and the big deals often have a tricky cash lag that has hurt many a club.

Sorry for being grumpy.

As others have alluded to though why would an investor look to put money into the club in a way that gives them no equity?

Is the 'investment' that creates revenue streams for the club going to be in addition to equity investment?

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I'm struggling to see how we'll do better than last year with the loss of Tomori, Wilson and Mount as i can't see us replacing all that talent. Cocu is an exciting manager but he's also a big risk given his lack of experience in English football and second division football especially. The squad looks a bit thin with all the shipments out but there is still time to get people in. It will likely be a slow start but this is the direction we all want to go in (home grown attacking exciting football). I reckon we'll finish mid-table this year but back in contention for the play-offs next season. 

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23 hours ago, Ramleicester said:

The stadium thing is clever and created ffp breathing space but was a limited vehicle for overall liquidity.  Keep in mind that transfers and the big deals often have a tricky cash lag that has hurt many a club.

Thought I'd check in today with all the updates we've been getting - Big spending on a young CB/DM and Cocu confirming that we're looking at bringing in 4 or more players and quoted as saying we do have a pot of budget for players

Do you still maintain we have no cash to spend?

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I actually think we will be top 2

Players will be a lot more confident after not bottling it last season - I would argue we overachieved..

If that mindset stays and we bring in the type of player being mentioned we have a shot at it..

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1 hour ago, old ram 15 said:

I'm struggling to see how we'll do better than last year with the loss of Tomori, Wilson and Mount as i can't see us replacing all that talent. Cocu is an exciting manager but he's also a big risk given his lack of experience in English football and second division football especially. The squad looks a bit thin with all the shipments out but there is still time to get people in. It will likely be a slow start but this is the direction we all want to go in (home grown attacking exciting football). I reckon we'll finish mid-table this year but back in contention for the play-offs next season. 

Better tactics and coaching for sure. Cocu has the experience and a few first teamers will be sweating on their chances of playing every week. Possible unexpected outgoings now? Anyone's guess!

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