Mucker1884 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 10 hours ago, HantsRam said: love a factoid. Sorry you've been harshly treated as you seem fairly knowledgeable... He does indeed (seem fairly knowledgeable), but if anyone's been harshly treated on this thread... in my opinion..., it's @cheron85, for thinking "cash" meant "cash"! The response was somewhat patronising to say the least, what with phrases like "OMG, did you really think I meant cash?" and "Get it now"? His knowledge on this subject certainly seems to be there (though I concede I'm in no position to judge, when it comes to knowledge on ANY subject!), and it's great (to a point) that @Ramleicester is generous enough to offer both his knowledge and opinion, but a little work on his delivery may make the forum a tad more palatable. EDIT: Oh yeah... Top ten, but won't be surprised (or suicidal!) if we miss out on play-offs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: He does indeed (seem fairly knowledgeable), but if anyone's been harshly treated on this thread... in my opinion..., it's @cheron85, for thinking "cash" meant "cash"! The response was somewhat patronising to say the least, what with phrases like "OMG, did you really think I meant cash?" and "Get it now"? His knowledge on this subject certainly seems to be there (though I concede I'm in no position to judge, when it comes to knowledge on ANY subject!), and it's great (to a point) that @Ramleicester is generous enough to offer both his knowledge and opinion, but a little work on his delivery may make the forum a tad more palatable. EDIT: Oh yeah... Top ten, but won't be surprised (or suicidal!) if we miss out on play-offs! Thought he got jumped on a bit but didn't pay very close attention to all dialogue so maybe I was mistaken. Anyhow, hopefully all friends and gentlemen again now.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, HantsRam said: Thought he got jumped on a bit but didn't pay very close attention to all dialogue so maybe I was mistaken. Anyhow, hopefully all friends and gentlemen again now.....? If I remember rightly, he posted about backroom redundancies and cutbacks etc earlier on, and was pretty much on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritty Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: I dont believe what you are saying is correct. You are quoting the headline loss rather than the FFP loss. I believe that the headline loss can be reduced by something like £5m per annum for academy costs plus there isnt there an amount that can be covered by capital injections? Never really tried to understand FFP but that was my take on it. So let's what I have said is wrong, and say we have to reduce losses by £12m could we do it through wages alone? That's circa £230k per week:- Blackman Johnson Butterfield Olsson Pearce Vydra I'd say the above has us well on the way. Shift Thorne, Martin and Anya and think we would be way over that £230k per week level. Add to this the fact that we will no longer have amortisation for the above players. As silly as it sounds, once the Sam Rush mess has been cleared I think it would be quite possible that the £25m loss becomes less than £12m. The capital injections don't lower the loss. The FFP rules just allow you an FFP loss of 39 mn over 3 seasons if you make certain capital injections. You may be right on whether I'm quoting FFP loss or operating loss. Vydra went in 17/18 and was replaced in 18/19 by Marriott, Malone, Holmes, Waghorn plus wages / loan fees for Mount, Tomori and Wilson (I can't believe that left us with a lower wage bill personally although it was claimed that the expenditure was flat in terms of transfer fees in and out) Amortisation losses for Butterfield,, Johnson and Blackman all fall in 19/20 due to them leaving post 30 June and so WILL affect FFP for this year (i.e. will need to be taken account of in managing down the loss) We've tried to shift Martin, Thorne and Anya for over a year and not succeeded. I don't see any reason why we will be more successful now. Plus the squad is now thin enough that were they to go, they'd need replacing (Anya's FFP depreciation (and any for Thorne) will occur this year too if contracts run out to plan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 3 hours ago, cheron85 said: He has regularly stated his frustration that FFP limited the amount of money he could put in - And stated as such in the interview on Talksport in June ? You can understand his frustration, especially in seasons gone by, and he is no doubt rueful that he couldn’t perhaps have hit it even harder on capital spend in 2015 or 2016 to give us a better % chance of going up. That doesn’t mean though, in 2019, he has the same appetite or ability to keep shelling out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Gritty said: The capital injections don't lower the loss. The FFP rules just allow you an FFP loss of 39 mn over 3 seasons if you make certain capital injections. Cheers for clarification, not really paid much attention to what the rules are. You may be right on whether I'm quoting FFP loss or operating loss. Yes pretty sure I am right for once! Vydra went in 17/18 and was replaced in 18/19 by Marriott, Malone, Holmes, Waghorn plus wages / loan fees for Mount, Tomori and Wilson (I can't believe that left us with a lower wage bill personally although it was claimed that the expenditure was flat in terms of transfer fees in and out) All fair points. Amortisation losses for Butterfield,, Johnson and Blackman all fall in 19/20 due to them leaving post 30 June and so WILL affect FFP for this year (i.e. will need to be taken account of in managing down the loss) That's guesswork on your part. Not sure why we would not take the hot in the 18/19 accounts though assuming that the stadium transaction lowers our FFP losses. We've tried to shift Martin, Thorne and Anya for over a year and not succeeded. I don't see any reason why we will be more successful now. Plus the squad is now thin enough that were they to go, they'd need replacing (Anya's FFP depreciation (and any for Thorne) will occur this year too if contracts run out to plan) Once again guesswork as we have no idea what amortisation has been provided against these certain players already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramleicester Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 On 30/07/2019 at 15:26, G STAR RAM said: It appears that the suggestion is that the new 'investors' will be putting money in to the club in ways other than capital investment, such as sponsorship. Gibson meltdown incoming if true. Hi... in peace lol. Spot on. If Mel keeps putting cash in it is capital investment not income so ffp would go backwards. My insight is from dealings with other sports investment and hearing about DCFC interest from active parties looking for a club to invest in. Cant really say any more or I would be shot. Seems to be taking a bit too long though. Good thing is that the club is seen as very attractive mainly due to the strong fan base. All I heard through that and a more direct source was that MM had for whatever reason grown a bit tired of putting cash in just to cover day to day expenses but not being able to create the playing resources to reach the promised land. The stadium thing is clever and created ffp breathing space but was a limited vehicle for overall liquidity. Keep in mind that transfers and the big deals often have a tricky cash lag that has hurt many a club. Sorry for being grumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, Ramleicester said: Hi... in peace lol. Spot on. If Mel keeps putting cash in it is capital investment not income so ffp would go backwards. My insight is from dealings with other sports investment and hearing about DCFC interest from active parties looking for a club to invest in. Cant really say any more or I would be shot. Seems to be taking a bit too long though. Good thing is that the club is seen as very attractive mainly due to the strong fan base. All I heard through that and a more direct source was that MM had for whatever reason grown a bit tired of putting cash in just to cover day to day expenses but not being able to create the playing resources to reach the promised land. The stadium thing is clever and created ffp breathing space but was a limited vehicle for overall liquidity. Keep in mind that transfers and the big deals often have a tricky cash lag that has hurt many a club. Sorry for being grumpy. As others have alluded to though why would an investor look to put money into the club in a way that gives them no equity? Is the 'investment' that creates revenue streams for the club going to be in addition to equity investment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I'm struggling to see how we'll do better than last year with the loss of Tomori, Wilson and Mount as i can't see us replacing all that talent. Cocu is an exciting manager but he's also a big risk given his lack of experience in English football and second division football especially. The squad looks a bit thin with all the shipments out but there is still time to get people in. It will likely be a slow start but this is the direction we all want to go in (home grown attacking exciting football). I reckon we'll finish mid-table this year but back in contention for the play-offs next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 23 hours ago, Ramleicester said: The stadium thing is clever and created ffp breathing space but was a limited vehicle for overall liquidity. Keep in mind that transfers and the big deals often have a tricky cash lag that has hurt many a club. Thought I'd check in today with all the updates we've been getting - Big spending on a young CB/DM and Cocu confirming that we're looking at bringing in 4 or more players and quoted as saying we do have a pot of budget for players Do you still maintain we have no cash to spend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I actually think we will be top 2 Players will be a lot more confident after not bottling it last season - I would argue we overachieved.. If that mindset stays and we bring in the type of player being mentioned we have a shot at it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Cocu is definitely aiming for automatic promotion this season no matter what anyone says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, old ram 15 said: I'm struggling to see how we'll do better than last year with the loss of Tomori, Wilson and Mount as i can't see us replacing all that talent. Cocu is an exciting manager but he's also a big risk given his lack of experience in English football and second division football especially. The squad looks a bit thin with all the shipments out but there is still time to get people in. It will likely be a slow start but this is the direction we all want to go in (home grown attacking exciting football). I reckon we'll finish mid-table this year but back in contention for the play-offs next season. Better tactics and coaching for sure. Cocu has the experience and a few first teamers will be sweating on their chances of playing every week. Possible unexpected outgoings now? Anyone's guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramleicester Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: Thought I'd check in today with all the updates we've been getting - Big spending on a young CB/DM and Cocu confirming that we're looking at bringing in 4 or more players and quoted as saying we do have a pot of budget for players Do you still maintain we have no cash to spend? And the reason why will become clear very soon. If it had of been there before now this would have happened a little sooner which may have improved pre season. In any event it is very positive news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramleicester Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 On 31/07/2019 at 17:41, G STAR RAM said: As others have alluded to though why would an investor look to put money into the club in a way that gives them no equity? Is the 'investment' that creates revenue streams for the club going to be in addition to equity investment? Hi... well yes I agree it would be both but the income bit is more important to us transfer loving fans.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ramleicester said: And the reason why will become clear very soon. Madam Zaza sees all?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I'm not expecting this but I really do hope Cocu is given at least two years to build something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 On 30/07/2019 at 16:37, CornwallRam said: My prediction is that we'll start really poorly. Cocu will underestimate the pace and power of the league. He'll also fail to realise that when he says 'keep possession', our players hear 'pass it sideways until we give it away'. I reckon we'll be 19th by the end of October. I think Cocu will learn quickly though. To sure things up, we'll go defensive and look to play on the counter. This will be like watching paint dry, but it'll gradually edge us up the table. We'll be in 12th by new years day. In January, we'll recruit two big fast midfielders and a tall striker. We'll play a diamond formation, with either Waghorn or Marriott just behind the new signing. Suddenly everything will click into place and we'll be the form team in the second half of the season - what February wobble? We'll end up 4th and get promoted through the play offs. That is why Rosenior is here. Cocu will be told it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Ramleicester said: And the reason why will become clear very soon. If it had of been there before now this would have happened a little sooner which may have improved pre season. In any event it is very positive news So nothing to do with an 80mil GBP capital investment by Mel in buying the stadium? Next you'll be telling me that Mel should have made it clear we had money to spend this summer. Even though that would have probably meant Arsenal rinsed us for another 2mil GBP for Bielik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosythram Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Why on earth are we surrounded by smart arses with conspiracy theories. Why can’t we just accept that all we want is to turn up on a match day see a competitive game hopefully with a win and go home. I know some people have other agendas and only want to perpetuate doom and gloom for their own self gratification, most of us just want a happy warm fuzzy feeling from our club. So all the doom and gloom merchants go and do one and leave genuine fans to enjoy DCFC for what it’s meant to be FUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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