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therealhantsram

Scott Carson

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4 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

Yes but he was the choice of England managers in an era of very little choice. In another era he would never have got anywhere near the England goalkeeping position.  Every time I seemed to watch him he made an almighty clanger

Carson and Hart - two peas in a pod for me.  Both doing great at their respective clubs until new managers arrived who wanted a keeper who could play better with the ball at their feet. 
Whether it's lack of confidence, I don't know, but after that both keeper's performances seemed to drop.

Neither yet to recover.

Regardless, we could never afford Hart anyway.

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25 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Carson and Hart - two peas in a pod for me.  Both doing great at their respective clubs until new managers arrived who wanted a keeper who could play better with the ball at their feet. 
Whether it's lack of confidence, I don't know, but after that both keeper's performances seemed to drop.

Neither yet to recover.

Regardless, we could never afford Hart anyway.

Carson is our only GK on very good wages, I assume. Having a small number of.players on big money may or not be a problem. No problem if clearly better than the other players.

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Carson is a fantastic keeper, I personally feel that he is a better keeper than Roos, who replaced him due to an injury and never performed bad enough to be dropped.

Roos always seems to be up for the Hollywood saves rather than doing what's most effective, hopefully he'll grow out of it.

xG is great if you don't hold teams against it, and seen as a rough guide of where your team is in relation to others as everyone is judged by the same metrics. A statistic is reasonable as long as it's measured and scored in the same way across every game and situation.

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This whole 'lies, damn lies..' view on stats is crazy.

If I watch a game and say X had a terrible game.... someone will immediately jump in my back and disagree and say what am I basing that on and in their opinion Y and Z were worse. 

So my answer is basically going to be my vague recall/impression of ...how lazy/lethargic they looked, how many times they gave the ball away, how many crosses they crashed into the first man, how many times they dribbled into a dead end, how many defence splitting passes they did...etc etc..

These are all stats ....that someone can check and compare and contrast to other players. Sure you need to look at them in context but to say they have no value just confuses me.

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1 hour ago, Chester40 said:

This whole 'lies, damn lies..' view on stats is crazy.

...

These are all stats ....that someone can check and compare and contrast to other players. Sure you need to look at them in context but to say they have no value just confuses me.

No that last is the point. It's how the stats are used and whether they are provable. Most folk would accept voter exit polls as giving a good idea of voting, but some of this xG stuff sounds no better than mumbo-jumbo sacrificing a chicken and reading its entrails!

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4 hours ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Hart has a well known weakness getting down to low shots on his right, which opponents were targeting frequently, according to a decent article I read a while ago.

And wasn't it a low shot down to his left which he let in vs Iceland in one of our poorer performances of recent years.

That footage of him pumped in the tunnel only to play like a complete a**e...🤣

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

And wasn't it a low shot down to his left which he let in vs Iceland in one of our poorer performances of recent years.

That footage of him pumped in the tunnel only to play like a complete a**e...🤣

The article picked up on the Iceland goal, and worked backwards, giving multiple examples of the same shot beating him, and that it was quite a well known flaw in his game amongst the professional coaching community, so I may have got which side the weakness was mixed up.

I'll see if I can dig it up.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/09/08/revealed-joe-hart-has-one-significant-weak-spot-opposition-players/

Edited by reverendo de duivel

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3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

No that last is the point. It's how the stats are used and whether they are provable. Most folk would accept voter exit polls as giving a good idea of voting, but some of this xG stuff sounds no better than mumbo-jumbo sacrificing a chicken and reading its entrails!

I don't really understand why you think it's mumbo jumbo. I'm by no means a stats expert, and if someone gives an excellent response I'm happy to bow, but my understanding is that XG is based on very robust analysis of literally thousands of chances so we can compare chances which happen in games and say X player should be/ shouldn't be saving X shot and the same for the player having the shot 

Obviously it's not the full picture but no stat is.. Ie a player may score on par with his XG because he scored 20 tap ins but you could argue getting into the positions to tap them in is a skill which is fair enough 

 

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2 hours ago, reverendo de duivel said:

The article picked up on the Iceland goal, and worked backwards, giving multiple examples of the same shot beating him, and that it was quite a well known flaw in his game amongst the professional coaching community, so I may have got which side the weakness was mixed up.

I'll see if I can dig it up.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/09/08/revealed-joe-hart-has-one-significant-weak-spot-opposition-players/

I wouldn't claim my memory was perfect- was mentally trying to recall the footage. He certainly used to go down and either his hand or wrist was too weak to hold the shot.

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On 15/07/2019 at 14:31, BathRam72 said:

I would argue Seaman was worse

Behave! Seaman was a genuinely world class goalkeeper and England have never replaced him. We've not had a reliable No.1 since him, although, Pickford does look like he has the potential to be that man.

The dross that followed Seaman was abysmal - Calamity James and Paul Robinson were two woefully average goalkeepers completely out of their depth in international football. That resulted in intermittent appearances for Carson, Robert Green, Ben Foster etc.

Seaman's problem was the lack of quality to follow on from him which meant that he went on too long. He was nearly 40 by Japan/Korea and that was highlighted by Ronaldinho. But aside from that, he was reliable and quality.

England have been fortunate to have had long spells of world class 'keepers: Banks, Shilton, Clemence, Seaman. But what has come in between those, have been pretty poor.

And, FWIW, Hart started to go downhill long before Pep wanted a 'keeper who could play out from the back. He was woeful at Euro 2016, poor at WC 2014 and there is a theory that he had his confidence knocked by Pirlo's penalty at Euro 2012. His format City seemed to plummet around 2012/13.

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4 minutes ago, TibshelfRam said:

Behave! Seaman was a genuinely world class goalkeeper and England have never replaced him. We've not had a reliable No.1 since him, although, Pickford does look like he has the potential to be that man.

The dross that followed Seaman was abysmal - Calamity James and Paul Robinson were two woefully average goalkeepers completely out of their depth in international football. That resulted in intermittent appearances for Carson, Robert Green, Ben Foster etc.

Seaman's problem was the lack of quality to follow on from him which meant that he went on too long. He was nearly 40 by Japan/Korea and that was highlighted by Ronaldinho. But aside from that, he was reliable and quality.

England have been fortunate to have had long spells of world class 'keepers: Banks, Shilton, Clemence, Seaman. But what has come in between those, have been pretty poor.

And, FWIW, Hart started to go downhill long before Pep wanted a 'keeper who could play out from the back. He was woeful at Euro 2016, poor at WC 2014 and there is a theory that he had his confidence knocked by Pirlo's penalty at Euro 2012. His format City seemed to plummet around 2012/13.

Opinions, Opinions.

We will have to disagree on this one

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I’m astonished by how much Carson has been apparently discarded by fans.

Only a year ago some people were genuinely saying that he should go and be back up keeper in the England squad to Russia. 

For my part , he is the only keeper we have had since Poom who actually won us points. The number of times you just knew we were about to concede when he only goes and stops a certain goal. That’s a pretty rare thing for a keeper at Derby County.

Surely he should be given the chance to get back to that form - seems a crazy waste otherwise. And as for not being great at playing five a side with his defenders when ‘playing out from the back’ , to me that’s a positive advantage - just don’t do it ! This is the championship, not the champions league . 

 

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27 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

I’m astonished by how much Carson has been apparently discarded by fans.

Only a year ago some people were genuinely saying that he should go and be back up keeper in the England squad to Russia. 

For my part , he is the only keeper we have had since Poom who actually won us points. The number of times you just knew we were about to concede when he only goes and stops a certain goal. That’s a pretty rare thing for a keeper at Derby County.

Surely he should be given the chance to get back to that form - seems a crazy waste otherwise. And as for not being great at playing five a side with his defenders when ‘playing out from the back’ , to me that’s a positive advantage - just don’t do it ! This is the championship, not the champions league . 

 

Totally agree, BobbyD.

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Posted (edited)

I must admit,several games before roos came into the scene,I had been concerned about Carsons form...he appeared to be very slow to react in comparison to the previous season and it seemed to come to a head at the Chelsea game where I would have expected him to prevent the keogh goal but he appeared to be rooted to the spot.

In his day he was,without doubt a great keeper but I prefer roos now for his better reaction time and I like his distribution too.....(the villa goal was a howler but he's got plenty of time to redeem himself)

 

Edited by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong

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