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New “head of academy coaching”

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20 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

This is what I had the initial thought of...at most clubs your sort of “head of youth development”, with is effectively wassalls job, handles the day to day running of the academy only. Not managing any youth teams. Maybe that’s what we’re reverting to, this “head coach” becomes u23 manager and Wassall handles other duties. Tbh I think I’d prefer things that way, that way Wassall can focus on linking youngsters with the first team more.

Phil said Van Der Weerden linked the young players to the first team, I think.

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21 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

This is what I had the initial thought of...at most clubs your sort of “head of youth development”, with is effectively wassalls job, handles the day to day running of the academy only. Not managing any youth teams. Maybe that’s what we’re reverting to, this “head coach” becomes u23 manager and Wassall handles other duties. Tbh I think I’d prefer things that way, that way Wassall can focus on linking youngsters with the first team more.

Phil said Van Der Weerden linked the young players to the first team, I think.

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26 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

This is what I had the initial thought of...at most clubs your sort of “head of youth development”, with is effectively wassalls job, handles the day to day running of the academy only. Not managing any youth teams. Maybe that’s what we’re reverting to, this “head coach” becomes u23 manager and Wassall handles other duties. Tbh I think I’d prefer things that way, that way Wassall can focus on linking youngsters with the first team more.

I did consider that but the titles of Short and Lyons suggest they’ll be managing the U23s. 

I think Scott’ll be in to oversee all coaching at all levels within the academy 

2 hours ago, cool_as_custard said:

Head of Academy Coaching - Mike Scott

Senior Professional Development Phase Coach - Pat Lyons

Assistant Senior Professional Development Phase Coach - Craig Short

 

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5 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Who are the scouts then. Dib dib dib.

At which level? And to do what?

Recruitment 

Head of Senior Scouting & Emerging Talent Development - Joe McClaren

Head of Technical Scouting - Jon Howard

Head of Emerging Talent Recruitment - Harry Croft

Head of Academy Recruitment - Chris Perkins

Head of Local Recruitment - Jamie Smith

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/whos-who

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, cool_as_custard said:

So we now have the following, just for the academy. Mel is taking this very seriously.

Academy Director - Darren Wassall

Head of Academy Coaching - Mike Scott

Senior Professional Development Phase Coach - Pat Lyons

Assistant Senior Professional Development Phase Coach - Craig Short

Professional Development Phase Coach - Justin Walker

I’ve heard Craig Short ( whose signing as a player for us was announced on a Sunday at 9pm on teletext) has been telling people he is the Assistant senior professional development phase coach, when in reality 👀 he is assistant to the senior professional development phase coach.

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Edited by hintonsboots

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1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

At which level? And to do what?

Recruitment 

Head of Senior Scouting & Emerging Talent Development - Joe McClaren

Head of Technical Scouting - Jon Howard

Head of Emerging Talent Recruitment - Harry Croft

Head of Academy Recruitment - Chris Perkins

Head of Local Recruitment - Jamie Smith

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/whos-who

Nice experienced pedigree of highly rated individuals with illustrious careers and contacts...

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1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I did consider that but the titles of Short and Lyons suggest they’ll be managing the U23s. 

I think Scott’ll be in to oversee all coaching at all levels within the academy 

 

Yeah it does read that way. But you’d think that the latter would be Wassalls job...

As I say tho, I’d expect some official statement later about this restructuring

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30 minutes ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

Nice experienced pedigree of highly rated individuals with illustrious careers and contacts...

I’m not sure what your point is. Why does a scout have to be an experienced pro? How do you know who their contacts are? Have you seen who Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, etc have as scouts? 

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8 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I’m not sure what your point is. Why does a scout have to be an experienced pro? How do you know who their contacts are? Have you seen who Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, etc have as scouts? 

People who have had a career in the game have a raft of contacts to get inside information on players and deals going through for players we are/should be interested in. That’s just pure logic and common sense, you will not have the same contacts in football with no credible experience in the professional game (not saying it has to be playing).

Football is an huge network of people and a large proportion have a career in the game. At Man Utd they have scouts they’ve poached from Lisbon (Cristian’s Ronaldo), Ajax youth (currently the best generation of youngsters in the world debatably), psv (known for taking players from South America very successfully) and I could go on further....

Man City’s is less available Chelsea has people like Eddie newton who is highly regarded and then a network of former players in all different regions of the world such as flo, Ferreira etc.

Arsenal in their prime had one of the best I remember the success of some of them in particular Grimaldi about some of the players they picked up from obscurity. I don’t see us achieving that and our scouting rarely eclipses that of the manager and our success rate for foreign players has been utterly poor (something no one can argue against).  Even look at Brentford who have very little resources but scout better than us because they appoint seriously because they see it as a critical role.

between the 5 scouts listed earlier I would bet their particular obscure finds who went on to be huge successes would be a far smaller list than at other clubs. 

Have to see this window with a manager who may put a bit more faith in foreign imports whether they will be tested but even then I think the majority of signings will come through the manager and his contacts not the scouts like last year (tomori, mount- chelsea, Evans- played with lampard at Man City, marriott- well known lampard and harry scouted and met before even recruited officially). The rumours so far have been similar (not saying they are true), a lot of well known players and then associations with Everton where our assistant has a strong relationship.

Seeing as all of them appear to be relatively local there seems to be quite a few players missed on our doorstep most significantly recently che Adams.

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42 minutes ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

Even look at Brentford who have very little resources but scout better than us because they appoint seriously because they see it as a critical role.

between the 5 scouts listed earlier I would bet their particular obscure finds who went on to be huge successes would be a far smaller list than at other clubs. 

Have to see this window with a manager who may put a bit more faith in foreign imports whether they will be tested but even then I think the majority of signings will come through the manager and his contacts not the scouts like last year (tomori, mount- chelsea, Evans- played with lampard at Man City, marriott- well known lampard and harry scouted and met before even recruited officially). The rumours so far have been similar (not saying they are true), a lot of well known players and then associations with Everton where our assistant has a strong relationship.

Thing is why would we be able to poach 'well known' scouts? We're not Man City or Arsenal. How do Brentford set themselves up - btw they've not been promoted yet for all their great players - don't they have a limited Academy?

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11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Thing is why would we be able to poach 'well known' scouts? We're not Man City or Arsenal. How do Brentford set themselves up - btw they've not been promoted yet for all their great players - don't they have a limited Academy?

They got promoted from league 1 and have a net transfer income rather than our FFP crushing net outlay.... Brentford use a moneyball approach and yes they don't have an academy (they openly discussed that because they were in central London and a smaller club they didn't think they could compete and retain the top younger players and it would be highly costly to run, they have an informal under 23s who they recruit across Europe and the Uk to fill). I would never fault our academy because they are doing well and I have said for a long time we need to be patient before that impacts the first team, I just think when that was overhauled we should have done the scouting also so that we can fill the 'gaps' with really good quality players.

I am not saying we could poach well known scouts, the question was raised what do those clubs have!

I am saying there are scouts out there that have a more proven track record of unearthing talents. The clubs in turn have too.

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25 minutes ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

They got promoted from league 1 and have a net transfer income rather than our FFP crushing net outlay...

I am saying there are scouts out there that have a more proven track record of unearthing talents. The clubs in turn have too.

Well perhaps this new man (and new 4 yr manager) might be the start of more improvements in that area - Mel has been doing more hands-on stuff so maybe the scouting is next with Cocu's input even?

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4 hours ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

People who have had a career in the game have a raft of contacts to get inside information on players and deals going through for players we are/should be interested in. That’s just pure logic and common sense, you will not have the same contacts in football with no credible experience in the professional game (not saying it has to be playing).

Football is an huge network of people and a large proportion have a career in the game. At Man Utd they have scouts they’ve poached from Lisbon (Cristian’s Ronaldo), Ajax youth (currently the best generation of youngsters in the world debatably), psv (known for taking players from South America very successfully) and I could go on further....

Man City’s is less available Chelsea has people like Eddie newton who is highly regarded and then a network of former players in all different regions of the world such as flo, Ferreira etc.

Arsenal in their prime had one of the best I remember the success of some of them in particular Grimaldi about some of the players they picked up from obscurity. I don’t see us achieving that and our scouting rarely eclipses that of the manager and our success rate for foreign players has been utterly poor (something no one can argue against).  Even look at Brentford who have very little resources but scout better than us because they appoint seriously because they see it as a critical role.

between the 5 scouts listed earlier I would bet their particular obscure finds who went on to be huge successes would be a far smaller list than at other clubs. 

Have to see this window with a manager who may put a bit more faith in foreign imports whether they will be tested but even then I think the majority of signings will come through the manager and his contacts not the scouts like last year (tomori, mount- chelsea, Evans- played with lampard at Man City, marriott- well known lampard and harry scouted and met before even recruited officially). The rumours so far have been similar (not saying they are true), a lot of well known players and then associations with Everton where our assistant has a strong relationship.

Seeing as all of them appear to be relatively local there seems to be quite a few players missed on our doorstep most significantly recently che Adams.

Our youth recruitment has been nothing short of excellent.

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