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433 - what's your current team?

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13 minutes ago, rammieib said:

But lots of people on this thread are making assumptions and putting teams down on paper and saying it’s top six. So people are disagreeing that we’re not weaker... (or the league is a lot weaker to say we’re still top six).

I’m saying when someone on this thread points out three wingers, two being Bennett and Flojo and then says we’re too six material, that’s seriously misguided IMO.

I agree though, signings will come in and we should be stronger come opening day.

I am sorry @rammieib if it came across a little harsh. I was criticised on another thread for voicing a different opinion on our latest signing, so it’s unfair of me to do the same to you.

You make some fair points and you could well be right. I guess time will tell.

I think everyone is riding the wave of optimism from Cocu’s appointment. I can imagine most are only saying top 6 and beyond based on Cocu’s pedigree rather than the players actually at his disposal.

The idea that he will turn Vimto into fine Bordeaux wine with superior coaching and tactics seems to be the thinking.

That said, I don’t think you necessarily need great individuals to make a great team, so Jozefzoon and Bennett could still play an important role in a successful team.

Again, I think people are looking at Cocu and his man management skills and suggesting that if everyone has a role and buys into what the manager wants, even  with less quality on paper, we might still be able to outshine other teams.

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6 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I am sorry @rammieib if it came across a little harsh. I was criticised on another thread for voicing a different opinion on our latest signing, so it’s unfair of me to do the same to you.

You make some fair points and you could well be right. I guess time will tell.

I think everyone is riding the wave of optimism from Cocu’s appointment. I can imagine most are only saying top 6 and beyond based on Cocu’s pedigree rather than the players actually at his disposal.

The idea that he will turn Vimto into fine Bordeaux wine with superior coaching and tactics seems to be the thinking.

That said, I don’t think you necessarily need great individuals to make a great team, so Jozefzoon and Bennett could still play an important role in a successful team.

Again, I think people are looking at Cocu and his man management skills and suggesting that if everyone has a role and buys into what the manager wants, even  with less quality on paper, we might still be able to outshine other teams.

Great post. It's interesting to hypothesize what Cocu could be worth? 2-4 positions in the league table? If a league table of managers was done based on their abilities and sentiment was taken out the equation, I think Cocu is top six but lack of Champ knowledge could stop top two?

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                                            Roos/new

Bogle/new        Keogh/New                 Davies/Evans        Lowe/Malone

                               Huddlestone/Thorne

             Holmes/Dowell.                   Shinnie/New

Bennett/Jozefzoon                                       Lawrence/new

                                   Waghorn/Marriott

Get rid of Martin Anya Blackman Butterfield Wisdom Forsyth Carson

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50 minutes ago, rammieib said:

Great post. It's interesting to hypothesize what Cocu could be worth? 2-4 positions in the league table? If a league table of managers was done based on their abilities and sentiment was taken out the equation, I think Cocu is top six but lack of Champ knowledge could stop top two?

Well when Cocu was linked with the job, I instantly thought that Mel was going for the Bielsa effect.

The difference between Leeds in 17-18 and Leeds in 18-19 was night and day. Such a massive change and so much of that was down to Bielsa. They went from 13th to 3rd, and they looked completely transformed.

I suspect we are looking at Cocu to do the same, especially if we can’t invest a lot in changing the playing squad.

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1 hour ago, Nick_Ram said:

You're not allowed to say things like that round here.... you'll upset the precious. 

Says the man who posts more about Martin than anyone on this forum.  All the folk you choose to demean are merely expressing the opinion that he should be given a chance to prove his worth or otherwise. Nothing more. It's you that's precious given how much other folks' discussions clearly trouble you, but the irony of your stance has been shown repeatedly to whoosh straight over your head.

For the record, the major difference between 'the precious' and you, is unlike your good self, they retain some loyalty to a player who's netted over 60 times for the club and given them many days to remember and thus post accordingly, whereas you pass your spare time taking cheap shots at both the player and your fellow fans, mocking anyone who has the temerity to even discuss him....again, again and again. As per your trademark post - YAWN

Part of me really wants to say a lot more on this but having just come back from an enforced holiday, I'll take our erstwhile moderators' advice and add you to my ignore list instead, thus reducing irritation and relieving myself of the bother of reading your inane posts. It's not my preferred course of action but save for nights whwere I'm struggling with insomnia, I really can't see what you bring to this forum at all.

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4 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Says the man who posts more about Martin than anyone on this forum.  All the folk you choose to demean are merely expressing the opinion that he should be given a chance to prove his worth or otherwise. Nothing more. It's you that's precious given how much other folks' discussions clearly trouble you, but the irony of your stance has been shown repeatedly to whoosh straight over your head.

For the record, the major difference between 'the precious' and you, is unlike your good self, they retain some loyalty to a player who's netted over 60 times for the club and given them many days to remember and thus post accordingly, whereas you pass your spare time taking cheap shots at both the player and your fellow fans, mocking anyone who has the temerity to even discuss him....again, again and again. As per your trademark post - YAWN

Part of me really wants to say a lot more on this but having just come back from an enforced holiday, I'll take our erstwhile moderators' advice and add you to my ignore list instead, thus reducing irritation and relieving myself of the bother of reading your inane posts. It's not my preferred course of action but save for nights whwere I'm struggling with insomnia, I really can't see what you bring to this forum at all.

See? Precious haha.

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1 hour ago, Kuskus said:

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Start with Huddlestone instead of Thorne, then that starting 11 would have a chance of top 6 in the championship, for myself we still need a winger, centre back and another centre mid, then top 2 would be a possibility depending what quality we get, the championship is weaker this season, it's going to be a close one, with no outstanding team, can not wait for the start of the season now.

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Huddlestone might stay, but wouldn’t be too surprised if he was replaced.  I am sorry, but I can’t see Thorne anywhere near the first team. I know it is the start of pre-season, but his movement/physique in that 45 minutes against Sarasota suggested to me that he had slowed further, and he looks like he is carrying a lot of timber.  Great pity the bad luck he had.

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3 hours ago, Tombo said:

If it has to be 433

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But I'd much sooner see:

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Quality presentation Tombo.

What a Van der Guy..

Cocu will have no preconceptions so could be a couple of surprise inclusions.

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I'm not sure that we currently have the personnel to play 4-3-3. Right wing would mean either Waghorn or Bennett - they can clearly 'do a job' but I think both are better up top and I don't see Holmes as a winger. I'd also really like to see what Marriott and Waghorn could do as a front 2 (given they are clearly 2 of our very best players) & in certain games where we need a bit of finesse rather than pace & power, Martin up top with either one of them. 

I think a 4-1-3-2 looks much better if Shinnie has the role to sit in & allow Bogle & Malone/Forsyth to go forward. I also strongly suspect Evans will get the nod over Davies at CB, although I do see another signing there. 

My ideal XI (with the squad as things stand);

                                                Roos

Bogle                  Keogh                        Evans               Malone

                                              Shinnie

                        Holmes          Dowell       Lawrence

                                Waghorn           Marriott

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Based on the formations played in the first friendly. I would go with the second half formation, as it suited the players better and was more creative. I do not see Marriott starting as a lone striker. Lone strikers are almost always physical, and Marriott isn’t, but he looked very good in the Vydra role in the first friendly, feeding off of Martin. This is the team I would play given the players we have. I also do not think the squad is good enough, and would be looking for a right winger/forward, A centre back instead of Davies, and a midfielder to replace Huddlestone. 

95A632E8-CE7B-46EC-9027-973945E8954A.thumb.jpeg.b5b8e4ce429d95e41cc043a9795469c8.jpeg

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I think Marriott's link with Martin will only be possible with a 4 or 5 man midfield? 

Asking him to be the most advanced of a 3 man midfield wouldn't work imo. 

It looked promising because Martin was wandering off their defence and Marriott was then going past Martin. Essentially Marriott was a number 10 if you wrote the formation down but in reality Martin was still the playmaker and Marriott the poacher. 

It was weird and that's why it looked promising. Marriott's starting position was always deeper than Martin but as soon as Martin received the ball Marriott was looking to attack the space ahead. 

It is certainly worth exploring. But I do think it will need a 'proper' midfield. Marriott is no Bryson or Mount. 

Cocu said he prefers a 433 but will adapt to suit the players he has. 

If those two shine together in this pre season it could look more like a 4231. 

It worked for Bryson because he recognised he defensive duties and had the legs to get back into shape. 

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Marriott

Lawrence                      Waghorn

Sibley     Dowell

Shinnie

Malone     Davies     Keogh     Bogle

Roos

With what we have right now I would go with this. 

4-3-3 whilst in possession pretty much turns into 4-2-3-1, Dowell the more advanced will move “Vydra role”, Shinnie moving up alongside Sibley. 

Bust a gut Dowell for an hour then we bring on Duane Holmes.

Ideally I would like a RW, CM and CB come in. Move Waghorn to the bench, CM on loan so not to be over reliant on Sibley, allow us to ease him in over the season and a CB that’s basically Tomori. I want Tomori back. Frank give us Tomori back. I miss Tomori already. Frank? FRANK?

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