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Posted (edited)

I can’t see Martin as a no 10 in a 4-2-3-1. We’d get destroyed against any side with a bit of energy as it would put too much responsibility on the two in midfield. Vydra got criticised a lot as no10 under Rowett because it left the midfield two exposed, Id argue it would be worse with Martin because Martin doesn’t have Vydra’s energy across the pitch or would score the goals Vydra did to warrant playing in that position. Yes he might have better vision than Vydra but we’d be a lot more vulnerable defensively. The Only way to get Martin as a no10 would be in a diamond formation and that would be far better as there would be more men in midfield to help him, with a front two to make runs in behind. Something like this is the only realistic way I could see Martin being successful in.

  *other players depending on signings

               Roos

Bogle  Keogh   Davies  Malone

                Shinnie

      Holmes             Dowell

                 Martin

         Waghorn  Marriott

Edited by McLovin

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9 minutes ago, McLovin said:

I can’t see Martin as a no 10 in a 4-2-3-1. We’d get destroyed against any side with a bit of energy as it would put too much responsibility on the two in midfield. Vydra got criticised a lot as no10 under Rowett because it left the midfield two exposed, Id argue it would be worse with Martin because Martin doesn’t have Vydra’s energy across the pitch or would score the goals Vydra did to warrant playing in that position. Yes he might have better vision than Vydra but we’d be a lot more vulnerable defensively. The Only way to get Martin as a no10 would be in a diamond formation and that would be far better as there would be more men in midfield to help him, with a front two to make runs in behind. Something like this is the only realistic way I could see Martin being successful in.

  *other players depending on signings

               Roos

Bogle  Keogh   Davies  Malone

                Shinnie

      Holmes             Dowell

                 Martin

         Waghorn  Marriott

Relies on full backs for the width with a diamond a lot. But, both ours are very forward thinking so may suit it.

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2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Relies on full backs for the width with a diamond a lot. But, both ours are very forward thinking so may suit it.

I think we rely on them a lot to provide width anyway, last season we didn’t have any natural wingers apart from Jozefzoon. Wilson, Lawrence , Holmes, Waghorn wanted to cut inside a lot. 

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13 minutes ago, McLovin said:

I can’t see Martin as a no 10 in a 4-2-3-1. We’d get destroyed against any side with a bit of energy as it would put too much responsibility on the two in midfield. Vydra got criticised a lot as no10 under Rowett because it left the midfield two exposed, Id argue it would be worse with Martin because Martin doesn’t have Vydra’s energy across the pitch or would score the goals Vydra did to warrant playing in that position. Yes he might have better vision than Vydra but we’d be a lot more vulnerable defensively. The Only way to get Martin as a no10 would be in a diamond formation and that would be far better as there would be more men in midfield to help him, with a front two to make runs in behind. Something like this is the only realistic way I could see Martin being successful in.

  *other players depending on signings

               Roos

Bogle  Keogh   Davies  Malone

                Shinnie

      Holmes             Dowell

                 Martin

         Waghorn  Marriott

I might be more inclined to have Evans as the CDM in this, as if full backs go forward to create the width he might be better at dropping in to make a back 3.  Could then push Shinnie into one of the other 2 CM positions, feels slightly less lightweight that way, bit more experienced.  Maybe have Dowell/Holmes starting with the other on the bench to offer a creative option to change a game.  So that would be:

              Carson/Roos

Bogle  Keogh  Davies  Malone

                   Evans

       Holmes            Shinnie

                   Martin

          Waghorn   Marriott

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3 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

What are the chances of getting Wilson back as he's got zero chance of getting in the Liverpool side?

I'd suggest they'd want him to do a season on loan in the Prem this year.  Would get a decent loan fee as he boosted his reputation with us last season.  A good year for a mid-table prem side and his value would be even higher or he'd have shown he's worth a place in their 1st team squad.

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20 minutes ago, DCFCTom84 said:

I might be more inclined to have Evans as the CDM in this, as if full backs go forward to create the width he might be better at dropping in to make a back 3.  Could then push Shinnie into one of the other 2 CM positions, feels slightly less lightweight that way, bit more experienced.  Maybe have Dowell/Holmes starting with the other on the bench to offer a creative option to change a game.  So that would be:

              Carson/Roos

Bogle  Keogh  Davies  Malone

                   Evans

       Holmes            Shinnie

                   Martin

          Waghorn   Marriott

Wingless wonders but get a lot of goals. Very exciting preseason.

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1 hour ago, McLovin said:

I can’t see Martin as a no 10 in a 4-2-3-1. We’d get destroyed against any side with a bit of energy as it would put too much responsibility on the two in midfield. Vydra got criticised a lot as no10 under Rowett because it left the midfield two exposed, Id argue it would be worse with Martin because Martin doesn’t have Vydra’s energy across the pitch or would score the goals Vydra did to warrant playing in that position. Yes he might have better vision than Vydra but we’d be a lot more vulnerable defensively. The Only way to get Martin as a no10 would be in a diamond formation and that would be far better as there would be more men in midfield to help him, with a front two to make runs in behind. Something like this is the only realistic way I could see Martin being successful in.

  *other players depending on signings

               Roos

Bogle  Keogh   Davies  Malone

                Shinnie

      Holmes             Dowell

                 Martin

         Waghorn  Marriott

Vydra was criticised because he was often out of position exposing Huddlestone and Ledley to players running from deep, so I’d argue there’s a chance Martin would be better because he’d be a presence in the middle of the pitch by not straying beyond the striker or anything. Also don’t forget how vital Nugents ‘donkey work’ role saved Vydra on many times. But saying all that both sides are so inconclusive I’m not sure how we’d debate that without sounding ridiculous!

To be honest, one area Rowett got wrong was bringing Jerome in rather then a proper midfielder, even on loan to fulfil a no.10 role and shoved Vydra back up top. Then you had different approaches to how he could have played. Nugent could have worked as a back up no.10 (which has become his role before joining Derby) and a back up no.9, a solid attacking midfielder and Vydra or go back to Vydra and Nugent. Instead he brought in Jerome that limited the teams approach rather than expanded it.

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17 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Vydra was criticised because he was often out of position exposing Huddlestone and Ledley to players running from deep, so I’d argue there’s a chance Martin would be better because he’d be a presence in the middle of the pitch by not straying beyond the striker or anything. Also don’t forget how vital Nugents ‘donkey work’ role saved Vydra on many times. But saying all that both sides are so inconclusive I’m not sure how we’d debate that without sounding ridiculous!

To be honest, one area Rowett got wrong was bringing Jerome in rather then a proper midfielder, even on loan to fulfil a no.10 role and shoved Vydra back up top. Then you had different approaches to how he could have played. Nugent could have worked as a back up no.10 (which has become his role before joining Derby) and a back up no.9, a solid attacking midfielder and Vydra or go back to Vydra and Nugent. Instead he brought in Jerome that limited the teams approach rather than expanded it.

Actually he brought in Kasey Palmer and didnt play him!!! Now I’m angry all over again 

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4 hours ago, Ellafella said:

Yes; good point about Hudd, though I might be wrong his passes tend to be rangers to the width. Thorne does look top heavy and a bit “stiff” in his running gait, but if I recall he, in my experience of watching Derby for some 40 years, threaded one of the best defence splitting passes I’ve ever seen {v Huddersfield??!} which was through the eye of a needle, 35 yards which was finished by a sumptuous dink by Jonny Russell’s big toe about 3 years ago. That’s the sort of passing perception that doesn’t diminish through injury. If Thorne can replicate one or two balls like that in pre-season, maybe Cocu will warm to persisting with his rehab? 

Yeah I’d say Huddlestones passes tend to be more cannon ball launched passes which seem to be so perfectly controlled they land right next to the intended targets feet, whereas thornes are the more defence splitting through balls that can take midfields out from in the deck. Both have their merits, and both are top quality at this level at their best. At the minute, I think Hudd is closer to his best than Thorne, but pre season may change all that with fitness.

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4 hours ago, ollycutts1982 said:

I’m quite the opposite. I thought it was GT who was the one keeping the ball moving and looking for those forward threaded passes. Just shows it’s a game of opinions. 

He was certainly looking for the, but he misplaced a few from what I can see. As I say, it’s not to be unexpected, but he looked very rusty to me. 

Granted the stream was awful so I may have been watching max lowe for all I know!

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1 hour ago, McLovin said:

Something like this is the only realistic way I could see Martin being successful in.

  *other players depending on signings

               Roos

Bogle  Keogh   Davies  Malone

                Shinnie

      Holmes             Dowell

                 Martin

         Waghorn  Marriott

I'd swap Waggers and Martin TBH

Waggers has the 'hustle' and strength to bully DMs - Isn't going to get knocked around - Bit more pace than Martin so getting up and down the pitch less problematic - And for me has as much drive and vision as Martin does

Admittedly though I probably wouldn't play that system at all anyway 😄

Second half against Sarasota looked (in highlights) like maybe an old fashioned Clough-esque 4-4-2 - Where your LHS 'winger' is more of a forward (Bennett) and the RHS one is more of a RM than winger - Then your two CMs sit much deeper

Something like

                  Roos

Bogle Keogh Davies Malone

Holmes Hudds Shinnie

                                       Waggers

              Martin Marriott

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6 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

Chris Martin and us takes me back to 1995/96 when Jim had a player called Ron Willems - and Dean Sturridge, Marco and, later, Ashley Ward.

Ron chipped in with about 10 goals that season including penalties, had no real pace but wonderful vision, a very quick football brain and quick feet. He wasn't bad in the air. We went up that season and he played most of it behind a main striker linking midfield and strikers. And played some wonderful football.

Ron played 30 or so matches in the PL but wasn't really good enough for that league even in those days.

Interestingly our average home gate that season was just under 15,000. Hadn't realised it was that low in a promotion year, partly the result of the BBG being all seater.

I remember that season well, Ron was class, ex Zurich Grasshoppers I think. Studger's pace and Willems quick thinking brain were a lethal combo. Along with Robin VDL we had a couple of dutchman in the side albeit I think VDL was really from the Potteries....

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On 12/07/2019 at 17:14, Poynton ram said:

I remember that season well, Ron was class, ex Zurich Grasshoppers I think. Studger's pace and Willems quick thinking brain were a lethal combo. Along with Robin VDL we had a couple of dutchman in the side albeit I think VDL was really from the Potteries....

No, he was very much from Holland sorry, sorry I meant The Netherlands! Shiedam, South Holland to be precise.

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26 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Well Chrissie set to have set up and contributed to most of derbys goals up to now in pre season....hopefully won't do his chances of a first team ace any harm up to now.

Could do with a goal now, hopefully against burton

For me, he doesn't need to score but I want him to. Would get his confidence up massively. If he carries on the way he is, I see absolutely no negatives about his pre-season. 

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Posted (edited)

Martin if played in the correct formation would be a good player for any team in the championship, hope we can get him back on form, we have 3 very good centre forwards at the club at the mo in Marriott, Waghorn and Martin, think we have enough in the forward department need to get a winger in, a centre back and another centre mid, then we are ready for another good season.

Edited by Derby blood

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