Keogh and Davies

[Anag Ram]

So, we enter a new season with two centre halves the wrong side of thirty.

Keogh we know divides opinion. He has been at the heart of our defence for years, mostly as captain. Davies has an illustrious career.

Whilst they have played together in the past, can they be expected to play better than ever as a partnership?

Indeed, can the squad include both of them, particularly if Skyrtel, Tomori etc are added?

Discuss.

[Rich84]

IMO it's always a case of find the right partner for Keogh, he was the best defender last season and many before that, especially if we want to play football not hoofball 

[GangwayD]

For me, it would be unlikely we’d be top 6 for us with those two as our first choice pairing at centre half.

Keogh has proved he’s a top player in the Championship but another year older means he’ll be going one way.

Same with Davies but add on the year out injured and can’t see him being close to the Curtis who had that spell when he was terrific. 

Without Tomori back I think we need two new players as no real evidence any youngsters are pushing.

A chink of light was Evans but that’s basically on one good game.

Work to do for Cuckoo,

Cheers

Gangway D from the terrace

 

[hintonsboots]

1 minute ago, Rich84 said:

IMO it's always a case of find the right partner for Keogh, he was the best defender last season and many before that, especially if we want to play football not hoofball 

As you say Richard.

[deanoakaram4life]

Need a couple of CB's in. Davies did excellent for Rowett but if we are playing with a high line his legs are an issue. 

[ilkleyram]

2 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

So, we enter a new season with two centre halves the wrong side of thirty.

Keogh we know divides opinion. He has been at the heart of our defence for years, mostly as captain. Davies has an illustrious career.

Whilst they have played together in the past, can they be expected to play better than ever as a partnership?

Indeed, can the squad include both of them, particularly if Skyrtel, Tomori etc are added?

Discuss.

Why not? And yes. 

I don’t see why age has anything to do with it. It’s whether Cocu thinks they’re good enough for whatever system he wants to play. Tomori used his pace loads of times last season to get himself out of problems that his own inexperience had created, problems that maybe Davies wouldn’t have been in. 

We certainly need cover in the position and if we can get better then we should whether it’s Tomori or not. 

[jono]

They were playing well together before Curtis was injured which gave Tomori his big break.

No reason why they can't play well together again. Evans cameo gives us a bit of cover but yes they are in the autumn of careers and we might be looking a bit light in defensive numbers if that is factored in. What have we got in the Under 23's ? 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, jono said:

They were playing well together before Curtis was injured which gave Tomori his big break.

No reason why they can't play well together again. Evans cameo gives us a bit of cover but yes they are in the autumn of careers and we might be looking a bit light in defensive numbers if that is factored in. What have we got in the Under 23's ? 

Ethan Wassall  is quite good but will need time. 

[angieram]

Max Hunt really good in the air and his distribution steadily improving. 

Panics a bit at times. 

He is a leader though so maybe another Keogh in the making?

Buchanan probably the best defensive ball player but he's younger, played for under 18s last year. He looks classiest of the bunch.

[Jonesy90]

I think one of Derby’s main priorities this transfer window is to buy a younger centre back as we haven’t got that depth of option in the academy.

Someone with a couple of years experience in the Championship would be ideal. Probably the reason why we’ve been linked with Todd Kane and Paddy McNair.

Start that succession planning now because this will be Davies’ last season at the club.

[Curtains]

8 minutes ago, angieram said:

Max Hunt really good in the air and his distribution steadily improving. 

Panics a bit at times. 

He is a leader though so maybe another Keogh in the making?

Buchanan probably the best defensive ball player but he's younger, played for under 18s last year. He looks classiest of the bunch.

Isn’t Buchanan a wing back though !

[angieram]

6 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Isn’t Buchanan a wing back though !

Dunno - played in a back four when I' ve seen him. I admit I only usually see under 18s on RamsTV as they play when I am at work. 

 

[IslandExile]

George Evans?

Wisdom?

Huddlestone?

Forsyth?

Yeah we need Tomori back ASAP

[RamNut]

Need someone older than the academy players.

evans seemed much better in defence than midfield and could be one.

missed the opportunity to get liam lindsay two years ago for £750k

Probably can't afford jake cooper from millwall?

Jason mccarthy could be a decent squad player although we really need a left footer.

if we can afford him and we could get igor on the case then maybe dino peric from zagreb. Big bugger. Left footed. Likes to tackle. Seems to like to bomb forward too.

https://vimeo.com/331052690

 

 

 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

Isn’t Buchanan a wing back though !

Primarily he’s a CB. But he’s so calm in possession and a very good at dribbling that he’s just as comfortable playing LB/LWB. 

[EnigmaRam]

Would still like us to go for Bielik in a loan or Perm. Young experienced ball playing CB and he wants first team football

[Taribo]

19 minutes ago, RamNut said:

 

if we can afford him and we could get igor on the case then maybe dino peric from zagreb. Big bugger. Left footed. Likes to tackle. Seems to like to bomb forward too.

https://vimeo.com/331052690

 

 

 

 

Flippin’ heck I love this guy already he looks incredible (disclaimer: opinion based purely on that highlight reel)

[Alph]

Keogh was brilliant last season so I find it impossible to come to the conclusion he won't be good enough a couple of months later.

We need another CB though.

We should always be open to upgrades but unless a great opportunity comes along to pull in 2 very good CB's then I can't see how Keogh doesn't have another very welcome season of 45 - 50 games. 

When Cocu adds depth to the CB position I'm sure he will try to get the best CB he can. 

Keogh will eventually lose his place naturally. 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

Max Hunt really good in the air and his distribution steadily improving. 

Panics a bit at times. 

He is a leader though so maybe another Keogh in the making?

Buchanan probably the best defensive ball player but he's younger, played for under 18s last year. He looks classiest of the bunch.

I was thinking why Buchanan spent most of the season with the U18s but was considered closer to the first team than those in the U23s (Wassall, Hunt, Bateman). I concluded it was for the same reason Bird and Sibley were drafted in for the last few games - to ensure they had the best chance possible of winning the league. 

This upcoming season, the U23s will have 5 CB options: Bateman, Buchanan, Hunt, Minkley and Wassall. I expect two of them to go out on loan (Wassall and Hunt are my guesses). Cashin will probably float between the age groups

 

43 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

George Evans?

Wisdom?

Huddlestone?

Forsyth?

All options but who would feel confident with any of those as our 3rd choice CB? None of those (or Davies) are blessed with pace. If we play with a high line we would get caught out a lot. 

 

It’s almost a safe assumption for Keogh to start every game and play every minute. In the rare game/few minutes he can’t play, I don’t see a problem with Wisdom/Evans/youth being used.

that leaves us with the left sided spot. It’s seems to me, this position will be split between Davies and another. A younger signing will be viewed as a long term option. However, Buchanan and Hunt are both left sided CBs (and arguably our most promising CBs). So a young signing here will almost certainly block their ‘long term’ progression into the team. If they are judged to not be quite ready yet, an older signing/someone on loan will give them a chance to break into the team much sooner. This is the option I think we’ll take and would support signing Skrtel on a short term deal, or Tomori on loan.

[Millenniumram]

With centre half’s a lot of their game is about anticipation and reading the game rather the individual pace, and also being able to command and lead a team- both of which come with experience. So I’d actually argue in that position being over 30 isn’t always a bad thing. You don’t want ancient players in there, but I think Keogh has a few years yet and Davies probably one more year so I don’t think it’s all bad. They’re both excellent defenders in their own right, Keogh more for his ball playing, Curtis more for his defending- we’ve seen this clearly before and they’ve complemented each other well. They’re also both the leaders in our team, they form the centre of the spine in the team imo and players bounce off them like they bounce off each other. They’re both still vital members of this team and can still form our centre back partnership imo. All this is assuming we play 2, as opposed to three centre backs of course. You’d expect that to be the case but we don’t know what cocu has planned yet.

That said, I’m always an advocate of two players per position. To that end, I’d aim to have 4 centre backs within the first team squad. At the moment Keogh and Davies are the only two. So not only would the squad be able to include both of them and Tomori and Skrtel... I actually think it’s important we do get another two players in those positions. Only real question is would two of them be willing to sit on the bench/ sidelines in case of injury? I’m not so sure, so we’d need to get players in who aren’t all expecting to be automatic first choices. There’s also of course the possibility that those 2 empty slots could be taken by youths being promoted. Only player I see coming through who looks close to a first team promotion in that position is probably Buchanan, so if we deem him ready then potentially we only need one incoming. If not, then we probably need to establish what level he’s at, get him a loan for the season, and bring in two for the first team.