Chellaston Ram Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 8 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Couldn't care less what style of football we play. I want us to win. It seems Cocu prepares each game tactically to win so maybe every game might not be entertaining. At the end of the day football is about winning if we are entertained most games then that is a bonus. I am getting fed up of just missing out on promotion let’s just do it and not get too obsessed with entertaining football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Cocu said he likes having the ball, so surely we can expect posession based attacking football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 14/15 PSV F92 A31 Ajax F69 A29 AZ F63 A56 15/16 PSV F88 A32 Ajax F81 A21 Feyenoord F62 A40 16/17 Feyenoord F86 A25 Ajax F79 A23 PSV F68 A23 17/18 PSV F87 A39 Ajax F89 A33 AZ F72 A38 If PSV are defensive and Ajax were attacking sides, fair to say PSV are very clinical and Ajax very wasteful. These are actual goals scored and conceded, not the xG nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 9 hours ago, cannable said: I’d argue that under Mac 1 our greatest strength was counter attacking, in 13/14 at least. We’d win the ball in our own third, ping six passes and then launch a sweeping team move. We’re still going to play from the back under Cocu so I’d imagine a similar system. His lowest average possession at PSV was still over 53%. They’d have still had to break teams down. I agree but it was a Different style of counter attacking though. Was more win the ball through pressing rather than sit back until the opposition gave it away like under Rowett. There was also a lot more to our game than that, we played the possession game when it suited as well, quite a few of our goals came after more lengthy moves. Im not anticipating hoofball from what I’ve seen so far, I think we’ll still be playing the ball on the deck and those stats suggest when necessary we’ll play the possession game. What I’m not expecting, and what we’ve seen little of, is the high press that we saw under Lampard and Mac at times. I think we’ll play the more sit back and wait game like under Rowett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thierry Ennui Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Chellaston Ram said: It seems Cocu prepares each game tactically to win so maybe every game might not be entertaining. At the end of the day football is about winning if we are entertained most games then that is a bonus. I am getting fed up of just missing out on promotion let’s just do it and not get too obsessed with entertaining football Rowett was only 30 minutes off getting us to Wembley... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Penelope Pendrex said: Rowett was only 30 minutes off getting us to Wembley... Yeah but Rowetts a jeb so it don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Penelope Pendrex said: Rowett was only 30 minutes off getting us to Wembley... That's like saying you was on square 97, and only needed to roll a 3 to reach the end, but you rolled a one, and sssslithered all the way back down to square 48... and ended up losing! Oh wait... what a coincidence! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 15 hours ago, cannable said: I’d argue that under Mac 1 our greatest strength was counter attacking, in 13/14 at least. We’d win the ball in our own third, ping six passes and then launch a sweeping team move. We’re still going to play from the back under Cocu so I’d imagine a similar system. His lowest average possession at PSV was still over 53%. They’d have still had to break teams down. Yep. I don't think and I hope not that Cocu has us playing on the counter when not suited to the game like Rowett did. An average of over 53% is higher than Mac's spells at Derby I think. No matter what some say we didn't do endless pointless passing under Mac. We tried to lure teams out when they sat deep but the idea was always to attack as fast as possible once it started. He had that 6 passes to gain control tactic but we scored loads of goals and we did it with like 52% possession on average I think. So Cocu's defensive tactics at PSV still saw them in possession more than Mac's attacking Derby side. I've read that he likes to play on the counter but its mentioned that he does it when winning "even against weak teams". Well the problem with Rowett wasn't his style when the counter attack was working. It was when there was no attack to counter. That's when it looked like "hoofball" and we wasted possession. To get 53% and be accused of being defensive isn't a contradiction though. It seems more likely that as cannable says, they still had to break teams down and they did that with possession and attacking football. I'm ok with us playing on the counter if 1-0 up against Charlton. It was playing on the counter when 1-0 down at Wolves that was frustrating as they sat and laughed at us. I do see people getting frustrated if we are 1-0 up and we start playing on the counter. It depends how much sitting back and how structured the countering is. If it's kick and chase then it will be frustrating but Cocu's PSV were not goal shy so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB SPORTS Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 42 minutes ago, Alpha said: Yep. I don't think and I hope not that Cocu has us playing on the counter when not suited to the game like Rowett did. An average of over 53% is higher than Mac's spells at Derby I think. No matter what some say we didn't do endless pointless passing under Mac. We tried to lure teams out when they sat deep but the idea was always to attack as fast as possible once it started. He had that 6 passes to gain control tactic but we scored loads of goals and we did it with like 52% possession on average I think. So Cocu's defensive tactics at PSV still saw them in possession more than Mac's attacking Derby side. I've read that he likes to play on the counter but its mentioned that he does it when winning "even against weak teams". Well the problem with Rowett wasn't his style when the counter attack was working. It was when there was no attack to counter. That's when it looked like "hoofball" and we wasted possession. To get 53% and be accused of being defensive isn't a contradiction though. It seems more likely that as cannable says, they still had to break teams down and they did that with possession and attacking football. I'm ok with us playing on the counter if 1-0 up against Charlton. It was playing on the counter when 1-0 down at Wolves that was frustrating as they sat and laughed at us. I do see people getting frustrated if we are 1-0 up and we start playing on the counter. It depends how much sitting back and how structured the countering is. If it's kick and chase then it will be frustrating but Cocu's PSV were not goal shy so... This doesn't suggest Cocu sets up to defend almost all season 4-3-3 attacking formation : https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/psv-eindhoven/spielplan/verein/383/saison_id/2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 46 minutes ago, WHAT DO I GET said: This doesn't suggest Cocu sets up to defend almost all season 4-3-3 attacking formation : https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/psv-eindhoven/spielplan/verein/383/saison_id/2017 I'm going off what I've read from PSV fans. That 433 attacking/defending thing just makes me think of the different setting the players had on Pro Evolution Soccer. I always went 433 attacking and got beat by hoofball teams ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, WHAT DO I GET said: This doesn't suggest Cocu sets up to defend almost all season 4-3-3 attacking formation : https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/psv-eindhoven/spielplan/verein/383/saison_id/2017 433 attacking = 443 443 defending = 4231 A specific formation does not automatically mean the style of play was attacking or defending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: 433 attacking = 443 443 defending = 4231 A specific formation does not automatically mean the style of play was attacking or defending I'd swap 443 to 434 to really emphasise attack. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB SPORTS Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: 433 attacking = 443 443 defending = 4231 A specific formation does not automatically mean the style of play was attacking or defending That's what I have been coaching wrong all these years only using 10 outfield players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JfR Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I think this article gives a good insight into Cocu's tactics at PSV. It's from Opta, who do all of the stats analysis that teams and TV rely upon.:https://www.optasportspro.com/news-analysis/how-psv-changed-their-playing-style-and-got-back-to-winning-ways/ The tl;dr version is that Cocu's original style with PSV was primarily possession-based and relied on both controlling the play in the midfield and winning possession high up the pitch. This stopped working effectively during the 2016/17 season, in part due to the players at PSV's disposal, and that season was ultimately a disappointing one for them. 2017/18 saw them adapt to this and instead use a style whereby they allowed more openness in the middle of the pitch and won the ball back deeper in the pitch, and attacked more on the counter than previous years. This ultimately worked as this better suited the players they had and they won the league that year. I don't know how exactly he will set Derby up, but I don't get the impression that he's going to end up being a Pulisball merchant, he just seems like someone that is willing to adapt his style to the situation he finds himself in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 43 minutes ago, JfR said: I think this article gives a good insight into Cocu's tactics at PSV. It's from Opta, who do all of the stats analysis that teams and TV rely upon.:https://www.optasportspro.com/news-analysis/how-psv-changed-their-playing-style-and-got-back-to-winning-ways/ The tl;dr version is that Cocu's original style with PSV was primarily possession-based and relied on both controlling the play in the midfield and winning possession high up the pitch. This stopped working effectively during the 2016/17 season, in part due to the players at PSV's disposal, and that season was ultimately a disappointing one for them. 2017/18 saw them adapt to this and instead use a style whereby they allowed more openness in the middle of the pitch and won the ball back deeper in the pitch, and attacked more on the counter than previous years. This ultimately worked as this better suited the players they had and they won the league that year. I don't know how exactly he will set Derby up, but I don't get the impression that he's going to end up being a Pulisball merchant, he just seems like someone that is willing to adapt his style to the situation he finds himself in. To sum up then, he changes the way he plays to suit the players available, rather than shoehorn players into an unsuitable system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: To sum up then, he changes the way he plays to suit the players available, rather than shoehorn players into an unsuitable system? ? Now don't take this the wrong way Rev, but the first couple of times I saw your new moniker I misread it as Reverendo de Drivel.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, HantsRam said: ? Now don't take this the wrong way Rev, but the first couple of times I saw your new moniker I misread it as Reverendo de Drivel.....? Probably more appropriate, tbh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just seen his latest interview. He’s a bit of a dull bloke, isn’t he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Just seen his latest interview. He’s a bit of a dull bloke, isn’t he? Not really, just seems thoughtful. Don't think he likes the interviews, either. I'd put him in the "normal person" category. If you want dull you should meet some Quality Assurance consultants. Early days too, his demeanour might change as he gets more comfortable in the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 He's also translating in his head as he goes. Not the easiest of tasks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.