Phillip Cocu, Chris Van der Weerden & Twan Scheepers

[jimbo jones]

2 minutes ago, De22Ram said:

I dont really get the excitment either to be honest! Its a big name yes! Im not so fussed about his knowledge of the championship, more the fact he plays defensive minded football! Not free flowing attacking football that goes down well with the fans! 

This is just what ive heard, i havent seen a great deal of games wheres hes managed, so i may be wrong, but early alarms bells are ringing!

if we get him, and were playing defensive football will everyone be happy?

personally, if were winning, im not to fussed, but i know there are those who do mind! And i see there point also!

Yet other reports say he plays attacking football and doesn’t bother to much about the defence... ?‍♂️

like most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle

[Jayram]

2 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

Hughton is 61 I believe, he will have his feet up waiting for the first premier league club to panic and sack the manager to come calling, and have one last pay day before he retires. I doubt he has any interest in coming to Derby.

You may be right but it’s worth testing the water with him surely?

[eddie]

2 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Just send Cocu and his mate all the videos of our U18s.

And bitterballen. Lots and lots of bitterballen.

Best....barsnack....EVAR!!!

[De22Ram]

1 minute ago, jimbo jones said:

Yet other reports say he plays attacking football and doesn’t bother to much about the defence... ?‍♂️

like most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle

True! Im still fuming were in this whole position but, what can you do? Lol

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

10 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Hughton has been promoted twice from the Championship with different clubs so to my mind that makes him the best fit for us by a country mile.

But I think Cocu brings the mix of academy and first team together like Morris wants to carry on. He also attracts the right calibre of player quickly and many managers will want to send their youngsters to us on loan.

I think Hughton would have been an OK fit for us but this carries on where FL left us. 

[Rampage]

14 minutes ago, GenBr said:

I dont understand why "knowledge of the championship" is relevant at all. Several international managers have been promoted to the Prem in recent years. Last years champions had a German manager. Bielsa and Lampard neither played nor managed in the Championship before last year. Completely irrelevant to me.

In 14/15 PSV net spend was less than £1 mill. In 15/16 they made a £30 mill profit on player sales after they sold some of the youth players Cocu had helped to develop. In 16/17 they made a profit of £10 million on transfers with £5 mill spent on incoming. In 17/18 they made another profit of £20 mil. 2 years he barely spent anything and then the other 2 he spent money from selling homegrown talent. At least for the first year we can more than compete on spending power.

Great post, GenBr. Music to my ears. Everything in place at Derby for a guy who can develop young players. A couple of loans from Frank and a couple from Holland. Getting very keen on this idea. Cocu has no job so could be possible. No delay, no payouts. 

[Wolfie20]

1 hour ago, TZM said:

Was mainly posting because someone said press were congregating there..

Hardly surprising - Greggs' steak bakes are worth the publicity

[jimbo jones]

4 minutes ago, Jayram said:

You may be right but it’s worth testing the water with him surely?

It may well of been, I doubt we’d ever know.

[Kernow]

19 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

To be fair kind of reiterates my point. If it is Cocu I would of course be more than happy to say he was better than I thought he may be .

It reiterates your point in the sense that there are only two or three dominant teams in the Netherlands, yes, however I was trying to point out that it's not entirely fair to down-play his achievements purely because he managed PSV.

I'd be more cautious if he had gone there, won one title, then buggered off and been unsuccessful in Turkey. But he built a team that could overturn one side's dominance, whilst developing youth, remaining successful themselves and making profits in the transfer market.

There's never any guarantees with any manager but I'd be a hell of a lot more excited for next season with Cocu than I would be with Darren Moore or Garry Monk.

[Wolfie20]

1 hour ago, Topram said:

A writer for the Chelsea Echo says Shay Given has turned down the chance to go to Chelsea! Will he stay here?

Nah - probably someone from Sky Sports heard him whistling the Elvis Costello number, put 2 & 2 together and come up with 5 again!

[Boycie]

4 hours ago, Robram said:

ooh Frank Lampard

Weve  got Cocu

He,s better than you

And 7 million in the bank ……...

 

 

 

Anyone finish it for me ?

 

Get off!?

[RamLad1884]

1 minute ago, Jayram said:

You may be right but it’s worth testing the water with him surely?

From Mel Morris' point of view, no manager is guareenteed to get promotion. But I think I can say I'm in the majority when I say I'm far more excited at what Cocu will bring to the club, both in style and transfers as well as his work with the youngsters than I'd ever be with Hughton in charge. Excited fans are bums on seats, and money spent at the club, Mel has chosen the best direction for the club here. 

[Alph]

Apparently Shay Given had some sad news today. Doctors say he only has 48 journalist hours left to live. 

[Rampage]

24 minutes ago, CHCDerby said:

I think it will be a shayme if he stays. Both Goalkeepers not good enough last year.

Shay may not be a given.  Zubi2 the return.

[jono]

If it happens I will  be delighted. We need freshness not some old gnarled same old same old.

with Cocu we get

1) an interest in youth and the academy as a continuation of frank and Jodie’s momentum 

2) Fresh start for existing players particularly Flo Jo who I think has yet to be unlocked

3) a guy with experience at a high level and playing reputation that will command respect from senior players

4) a pretty good historic win ratio 

5) unknown quantity for opponents to have to figure out

6) he isn’t ordinary. I hate ordinary ?

[Gringo]

http://www.football-oranje.com/cocu-agrees-to-take-over-Derby-county/

Dutch national press think it is a done deal...here's hoping

[brady1993]

7 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Hughton has been promoted twice from the Championship with different clubs so to my mind that makes him the best fit for us by a country mile.

Hughton is a fine manager and there is a decent chance he'd get us promoted but that would be it and we'd likely be back down with an year or so. You can make a good guess at exactly how Hughton as Derby manager would play out:

1) We play a pragmatic percentage based 442 built on being solid first with one real flair player and an established striker to win games. It won't necessarily be bad whilst in the championship but it won't particular excite either. 

2) We will likely bring in a few solid pros to round out the ranks but always seem to float between upper champ/lower prem. 

3) Within 2 seasons we go up 

4) The style of football goes even more defensive in order to compete in the prem and the nicked wins become hard to come by.

5) We are in a relegation scrap most of the time whilst we are there, perhaps never getting embarrassed but never threatening anything more either 

6) Within 2 seasons we either get relegated or sack Hughton (and then it's a toss up what happens beyond that point) 

The above has pretty much been Hughtons career so far. His level is championship with the occasional premiership flirtation.

Whereas Cocu has and is genuinely one of the best European managers around and has been touted for something absolute top clubs around. He won multiple titles at PSV whilst developing youth players and was mostly making a profit in the transfer market. And if it wasn't for a bad spell at Fenerbahce (which there are from the sounds of it substantial mitigating factors)  would out of our league. Hell I'd have thought he still would be. With Cocu there is potential we could do far far more than someone like Hughton could do with us. 

It could all go wrong of course because there isn't a sure thing in football but you'd be blind to not see how high the potential of an appointment like this could be. 

[Rev]

Next person to repeat the 'Shays a given' pun, or variations of, will be taken out back and shot.

[Ambitious]

21 minutes ago, Kernow said:

He won it 3 times in 4 years off the back of Ajax winning it 4 times in a row. The season after he left, Ajax won again.

Its a bit different to going in and winning a one-off title. PSV hadn’t won a title since 2008 so it’s not as if he inherited a squad of Champions. Not only did he win the league but he built the squad to be consistently dominant. I think that’s impressive whatever the league.

If you scratch below the surface a little more, he was part of their youth set up for years and coached a lot of them through up into the first team, which seems to me that he's more about the coaching side. He also had a bit of flair in the transfer market and as pointed out previously was always working on a profit: Santiago Arias (600k), Luuk De Jong (4.95m), Gaston Pereiro (6.3m), Davy Propper (4.05m) and Hirving Lozano (7.2m)

You can also see the development in the academy and players coming through into the first team during his time at the club, in his last season he was able to promote: Steven Bergwijn, Sam Lammers and Pablo Rosario amongst others. He does seemingly have an heavy bias to signing young players for money, with a more free transfer/loan approach to more senior players. It could be something we notice during the next month. 

The sustained work he did at PSV was able to upset the apple cart in the Eredivisie. Frank De Boer was having it his own way until Cocu turned up with PSV and he didn't win the title again after he got his feet under the table. Peter Botz, who joined Ajax after De Boer, was able to bring in some incredibly good players in the transfer market and got them back competitive, despite Feynoord being the team who won the league that season, but Cocu came back the year later and won the title which was arguably his biggest achievement considering the talent Ajax had at their disposal. He was able to achieve that feat largely by coaching the young players to step up. I think there's definitely a case for the argument that he likes his fast players and counter attacking football, i.e. make the pitch as wide as possible, although I don't think the end product will look all that different to how Lampard has us set up. 

The most exciting prospect is that, in my opinion, we're currently sitting on possibly one of the most exciting academy classes this club has ever had. Cocu has proven time-and-time again that he's been able to promote these types of players into the first team and get them to transition from rookie player to influential player very quickly. I mentioned a number of them that he was able to do all at once at PSV in his last season, but you've got a number of others he did throughout his time there. We've sold Luke Thomas without them meeting, which may turn out to be a disappointment, but with Mitchell-Lawson and Whittaker coming through and Cocu's preference for quick wingers then it will be interesting to see what he thinks of them. 

[Millenniumram]

Seems to be done then by the sounds of that Dutch report- if nothings been lost in translation! Just waiting for Lampard to go to announce it then. Genuinely didn’t think we’d pull this one off, seriously ambitious move and props to Mel for managing to persuade him to join. Seemed unlikely but somehow he’s worked his magic and got him here, hopefully that means he’s got the funds available to bring in the quality of player we need to finally get to the prem.