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Lampard or Cocu?

Lampard or Cocu?  

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Lampard.  Whilst not as experienced as Cocu, he has a much better knowledge of the Championship, he knows our squad and in particular who might be ready to break through from the Academy, and we could do with some continuity. 

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I am all for stability, especially after all the turmoil of the past few years.

That said, if this is not the time for Frank to go to Chelsea then it will come eventually. If that is 2 - 3 years time then I would, in this day and age expect another managerial appointment regardless of who is currently in charge, so wouldn't be as much of a surprise.

That said, if Frank does go now then Cocu does get me more excited than some of the names banded around.

So for now I am in the stability vote

 

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Would rather Lampard stayed and committed to a longer term project - But were he to leave I'd jump at the chance to take Cocu

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I feel like irreversible damage has been done with the length of time this move to Chelsea has been on the cards, fans have already turned on him, fairly or not, and I’m not sure things would feel the same if he was to stay which is hugely disappointing.

Lose a couple of games, “should have ducked off to Chelsea”, “his heart isn’t here”, “that’s £4m we wasted, send him back to BT”, you can see it now and I wouldn’t want to see that.

Whilst his departure now would see the last year criticised, pulled apart, doubts over his credentials of a manager, I feel it would be better than the alternative future. 

Personally I’m a little torn on the whole situation, how it’s been handled, not from Derby but Lampard and Chelsea. You could argue Derby have been a little too respectful, but as Mel said, this isn’t Brighton or another lower Prem side, this is Chelsea, it’s his club and it’s in our interests to remain on good terms with them both.

Chelsea have one of the leading academies in the country, I’m sure we would now be at the top of the recommended clubs to spend a year out on loan. I’ve seen the arguments, “we don’t want to build a team around loans again”, loan players are usually key players, Abraham at Villa, Mitrovic at Fulham, without those both clubs would not have been promoted.

Let’s say Sibley is a year away from the first team, needs another season with the U23s, possibly featuring in cup games with the first team. Would you rather go out and buy a player on a 3 year deal for that position, or loan a potentially better player from Chelsea for a year where on departure the vacant position is free for Sibley to walk into, assuming he is the real deal that we think he might be?

Let me pull myself back, If I was to be critical of Lampard, and Jody Morris it would be the social media usage, he would have been fully aware of the coverage back home, taking a step back from liking photos, tweets would have been the sensible/professional thing to do. You’re on holiday, put the phones down and enjoy the time with your families. It has come across as a little disrespectful, not to the point I have any anger towards them both, just a little disappointed they have fuelled a lot of the nonsense.

I never expected any statement or interview from them both, just keep your heads down, remain respectful to the club you are currently employed by as they have you.

Cocu, are we assuming he is the chosen one? Not only is he a name that excites for those that remember him as a player, but has the CV as a manager to back it up, in fact I’ve seen others mentioned he’s more qualified for the Chelsea job than Lampard is, and I would sign off on that.

3 titles in 4 seasons after Ajax dominated the Eredivisie says he has his head screwed on, can this be translated into the Championship? You would hope so, but as with any appointment you just never kn.....

Just as I’m about to finish this, my phone dings with a tweet from Derby that Frank has been excused from pre season training today. That’s confirmation for me that he has left, you don’t come back from this. If we are going Dutch, paint me orange and let’s get the cloggers out and look forward to some total football!

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Would have said Lampard but after the way the past few weeks have gone, the sooner he goes the better. Even if he stayed we would have this farce every time the Chelsea job came up, which let’s be honest is quite often.

 

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41 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Lampard.  Whilst not as experienced as Cocu, he has a much better knowledge of the Championship, he knows our squad and in particular who might be ready to break through from the Academy, and we could do with some continuity. 

Knowledge of the championship is overstated. We've seen in recent years of foreign managers like Benitez, Nuno, Farke, Bielsa, Jokanovic and Wagner do well in the league even though they had little knowledge of the league when they first came in

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Three league titles ....no brainer . Owd Lamps wa always going back the them... The thing is nah that they are teking pi**. No excuses this deal should have been concluded days ago. 

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Think we've now reached the point of no return as far as Lampard is concerned. He's far from stupid and must be fully aware of the impact all this delay is having on the short-term future of our club but it doesn't appear as though that carries any level of importance for him - going to Chelsea is all that matters.

Just go now - Derby (and Mel Morris) have been left in the lurch for long enough. GO!!!

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46 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Lampard.  Whilst not as experienced as Cocu, he has a much better knowledge of the Championship, he knows our squad and in particular who might be ready to break through from the Academy, and we could do with some continuity. 

Ay he knows Championship all right....i'm thinking back ta Preston away where we under constant bombardment.. Swansea away.... shi***...... Rotherham .... Forest away ..... Accrington in't cup.... and that wa wi the three messiahs that evryone bangs on abart...im sure there's more games oh Aston Villa... 

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I was completely with Frank until the social media rubbish. It’s stupid to attach importance to it really but it exists and he and his family/friends aren’t stupid, they knew it would grow a life of its own. So right up till the video and tune on his hols I was hoping for him to return. Now I’m not and the Cocu idea is growing on me. 

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24 minutes ago, David said:

I feel like irreversible damage has been done with the length of time this move to Chelsea has been on the cards, fans have already turned on him, fairly or not, and I’m not sure things would feel the same if he was to stay which is hugely disappointing.

Lose a couple of games, “should have ducked off to Chelsea”, “his heart isn’t here”, “that’s £4m we wasted, send him back to BT”, you can see it now and I wouldn’t want to see that.

Whilst his departure now would see the last year criticised, pulled apart, doubts over his credentials of a manager, I feel it would be better than the alternative future. 

Personally I’m a little torn on the whole situation, how it’s been handled, not from Derby but Lampard and Chelsea. You could argue Derby have been a little too respectful, but as Mel said, this isn’t Brighton or another lower Prem side, this is Chelsea, it’s his club and it’s in our interests to remain on good terms with them both.

Chelsea have one of the leading academies in the country, I’m sure we would now be at the top of the recommended clubs to spend a year out on loan. I’ve seen the arguments, “we don’t want to build a team around loans again”, loan players are usually key players, Abraham at Villa, Mitrovic at Fulham, without those both clubs would not have been promoted.

Let’s say Sibley is a year away from the first team, needs another season with the U23s, possibly featuring in cup games with the first team. Would you rather go out and buy a player on a 3 year deal for that position, or loan a potentially better player from Chelsea for a year where on departure the vacant position is free for Sibley to walk into, assuming he is the real deal that we think he might be?

Let me pull myself back, If I was to be critical of Lampard, and Jody Morris it would be the social media usage, he would have been fully aware of the coverage back home, taking a step back from liking photos, tweets would have been the sensible/professional thing to do. You’re on holiday, put the phones down and enjoy the time with your families. It has come across as a little disrespectful, not to the point I have any anger towards them both, just a little disappointed they have fuelled a lot of the nonsense.

I never expected any statement or interview from them both, just keep your heads down, remain respectful to the club you are currently employed by as they have you.

Cocu, are we assuming he is the chosen one? Not only is he a name that excites for those that remember him as a player, but has the CV as a manager to back it up, in fact I’ve seen others mentioned he’s more qualified for the Chelsea job than Lampard is, and I would sign off on that.

3 titles in 4 seasons after Ajax dominated the Eredivisie says he has his head screwed on, can this be translated into the Championship? You would hope so, but as with any appointment you just never kn.....

Just as I’m about to finish this, my phone dings with a tweet from Derby that Frank has been excused from pre season training today. That’s confirmation for me that he has left, you don’t come back from this. If we are going Dutch, paint me orange and let’s get the cloggers out and look forward to some total football!

I agree entirely but I assume if Chelsea do not appoint Frank the 4 million is no more?

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I'd have to say Cocu as Frank has had his head turned by Chelsea. With Frank now talking to another club - I don't want him back. We would always feel like his second choice which is not healthy for anyone and in any case I fully don't expect him back.

Whether or not Cocu would be any good is a different matter. His pedigree is there as a player and possibly as a manager given his stint at PSV.

Just my opinion though.....

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Doing a little bit of light reading on Cocu from PSV/Fenerbache fans and there's been a fair bit that makes me feel cautious to say the very least..

Quote

 

Complaining that PSV plays boring football is an old tradition in the Netherlands. Ajax created the Dutch school that influenced classic international and club sides (Barcelona still worships Cruyff), but recently that style of play has shown its weakness. Failing Dutch trainers in England and the Dutch national team are prime examples.

Over here a 4-3-3 where every player contributes to every phase of play (simplified description, long post already) is seen as the way the game is meant to be played. PSV and Cocu however, don't mind playing a reactionary game, even when they're favourites.

PSV under Cocu usually played a deep 4-3-3 or 4-5-1, banking on the speed of their attackers to counter against tough opponents, or on creativity against weaker opponents. Our attackers have been great for this, like Depay and Lozano. Our defenders have been less flashy (Isimat, Schwaab, and the better player Moreno), but they do a fine job for a top side in the division.

PSV under Cocu have benefited most from a great controlling and creative midfield. Players like Guardado and Hendrix are all over the place, leaving room for creativity from Pereiro or van Ginkel.

In summary, PSV are often favoured to win their games, and usually will do just that. Cocu, however, doesn't shy away from defending against seemingly weak opponents. You'll also find him 1-0 up at home against a bottom tier team, and sub an attacker for an extra defender. This doesn't always make him popular, but it did make us champions 3 times, and gave us a great UCL run with Guardado, Moreno and Depay, where we only went out against later finalists Atletico on penalties.

 

This quote from a PSV fan sounds very much like us under Rowett.

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