TibshelfRam Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, GenBr said: I agree it was always going to happen that we would be more of a threat with a striker on the pitch. To suggest that we should definitely have started the game without a striker is completely ludicrous. There is no point even turning up if you aren't even going to attempt to win. Playing for a 0-0 draw over 90 minutes was never going to work - we found the exact same goddamn thing with Rowett in the playoffs. Feel as though this argument is being seen from two polar opposite views and that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Should we have started with a proper centre forward? I would say so, yeah, on balance. Do I think starting with Marriott would have won us the game? No - in fact, I don't think it would have made the blindest bit of difference. Essentially, Marriott is a goalscoring striker, not an all round striker. He needs service. So, do I think that that kind of striker would have won us the game when, for 70 minutes, we provided absolutely zero service and got nowhere near a dangerous position? No. The impact that Waghorn and Marriott had on the game was because of circumstance - we had to throw everything at the game, they retreated and we created a few chances. If anything, the striker who we would've been better starting is Waghorn as he brings others into play and can help create. But he wasn't fully fit. We lost because we weren't good enough and didn't create anything. Not having your poacher on the pitch wouldn't have changed that, in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Srg said: I don't think we did set up to play for a 0-0 draw, to be honest. And I didn't say we should definitely have started the game without a striker - Bennett is debatable anyway. I'm just saying that it was a judgment call, and he went with the player he trusted on the merits of his performance away at Leeds from the start. You can't crucify a manager for doing that, nor can you state that Marriott would have been all that either - he had been largely poor since the turn of the year. If Lampard deserves criticism, it's for the inability to muster results without Mason Mount for 2 months. We will have to disagree on most of this, but Marriott scored twice against Leeds - if we are going purely based on performance of the game before then he has to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Are the people certain that Marriott starting at Wembley would have won us the game the same people certain that Bryson starting at Wembley in 2014 would have won us the game? Just asking because McClaren picked Hendrick and Hughes over Bryson precisely because they played so well in the previous game and we didn't win. Lampard didn’t pick Marriott despite him playing well in the previous game and we didn't win. The only common denominator I can see here is hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, BathRam72 said: If you believe all the media out there then Darragh MacAnthony does seem to have a lot to say about all things Derby. If they are true then I get the obvious link having sold Marriott to us and we probably only pick up on the Derby quotes. I wonder if he bangs on about other clubs too? He does appear to be full of his own self importance Ask him any question on Twitter and he's likely to respond. For some reason, there seems to be a high proportion of Derby fans asking him questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, GenBr said: We will have to disagree on most of this, but Marriott scored twice against Leeds - if we are going purely based on performance of the game before then he has to start. Marriott (and Waghorn) weren't fit enough to play the full game. There was a good chance of the game lasting 120 mins and I would have felt more comfortable finishing with Waghorn and Marriott than Lawrence and Bennett - especially if it went to penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TibshelfRam Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 38 minutes ago, angieram said: Are the people certain that Marriott starting at Wembley would have won us the game the same people certain that Bryson starting at Wembley in 2014 would have won us the game? Just asking because McClaren picked Hendrick and Hughes over Bryson precisely because they played so well in the previous game and we didn't win. Lampard didn’t pick Marriott despite him playing well in the previous game and we didn't win. The only common denominator I can see here is hindsight. There is a second common denominator: we lost. If we'd have won with Bennett up top, I would suggest that nobody would now consider this a noteworthy topic of conversation. And FWIW, we didn't lose because of that - before anybody pipes up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, BathRam72 said: If you believe all the media out there then Darragh MacAnthony does seem to have a lot to say about all things Derby. If they are true then I get the obvious link having sold Marriott to us and we probably only pick up on the Derby quotes. I wonder if he bangs on about other clubs too? He does appear to be full of his own self importance Answers a lot about other clubs too. Gives very open answers too! Wouldnt want Mel to do the same but I appreciate an owner being open on social media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Srg said: Can't wait until people stop pretending like starting Marriott would have won us that game. You mean the guy that got us back in the Leeds game and then also scored the winner even though he played barely more than one half? And the same guy that scored the goal at Wembley that preceded our best play of the game even though he was on the pitch for less than a third of the game? Yeh, why on earth would anybody think he could have done any more with another hour to go at the Villa defence. Totally preposterous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, angieram said: Are the people certain that Marriott starting at Wembley would have won us the game the same people certain that Bryson starting at Wembley in 2014 would have won us the game? Just asking because McClaren picked Hendrick and Hughes over Bryson precisely because they played so well in the previous game and we didn't win. Lampard didn’t pick Marriott despite him playing well in the previous game and we didn't win. The only common denominator I can see here is hindsight. You didn't need hindsight to see what Marriott did at Leeds. All the people I went with including myself were stunned he wasn't in the starting line up. We were even joking about it in the pub a few hours before kick off saying 'Well at least Frank can't leave out Marriott now'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: Marriott (and Waghorn) weren't fit enough to play the full game. There was a good chance of the game lasting 120 mins and I would have felt more comfortable finishing with Waghorn and Marriott than Lawrence and Bennett - especially if it went to penalties. As much as I agree we should have started with one of them though. Could have got 60-70 mins instead of 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCG Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Srg said: Which would always happen. Villa were 2-0 up and completely willing to defend and counter. You couldn't start the game like that, we'd have got slaughtered. Watch the game again and you will see that's how Villa played the whole game. Last 20 it was all us; if we had scored again it would have been unlikely Villa could have changed the momentum. It was definitely a rookie decision not to start Marriott. Waghorn, though, was probably not fit for the whole 90, but I reckon could have made a difference with a full 45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 It's not conclusive either way on the Wembley issue, but I'm convinced it was more a thinking about getting chances in the last half hour and extra time more then just fitness - play ineffective Marriott for 65, then play isolated Waghorn for 25 would've been predicable (and probably what villa thought we would do to be fair). We weren't good enough as a team on the day. I doubt starting Marriott of itself would've changed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 He's so comparable to Mason Bennett. Both stocky, powerful and quick. Mason gives his all in training, which is why he always gets injured. Marriott saves himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buckley’s Dog Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 9 hours ago, angieram said: Are the people certain that Marriott starting at Wembley would have won us the game the same people certain that Bryson starting at Wembley in 2014 would have won us the game? Just asking because McClaren picked Hendrick and Hughes over Bryson precisely because they played so well in the previous game and we didn't win. Lampard didn’t pick Marriott despite him playing well in the previous game and we didn't win. The only common denominator I can see here is hindsight. Whether we would have won the match or not you can never say but would arsenal have left Ian Wright on the bench or would Liverpool have left Ian rush benched? Marriott was bang on form and confidence was high. He should have started with his best team. I was amazed when I saw the team sheet. The biggest benefit to Lampard going will be Marriott staying because he’s the most natural finisher we have had in donkeys. Create chances and he will score. Imagine how many he would have bagged for Sheff Utd. I like him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 23 minutes ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said: Whether we would have won the match or not you can never say but would arsenal have left Ian Wright on the bench or would Liverpool have left Ian rush benched? Marriott was bang on form and confidence was high. He should have started with his best team. I was amazed when I saw the team sheet. The biggest benefit to Lampard going will be Marriott staying because he’s the most natural finisher we have had in donkeys. Create chances and he will score. Imagine how many he would have bagged for Sheff Utd. I like him! I like him too and I would have definitely started Waghorn if fit but less sure about Marriott. This mainly because the Leeds game apart, he's looked pretty ineffective when starting games since his injury. I think that I am with the people who saw him as the game changer after Bennett had run the defence around and that might still have worked if we hadn't let that stupid second goal in. It was coming and my criticism is that we should have changed things sooner. The only thing that I object to is people stating that we would have won if we'd started Marriott. As you say, we might have, we might not have. It just gets my goat when people state it as fact. Bloody hell, I sincerely hope that Marriott becomes our Ian (Wright or Rush!) but he's not quite there yet. Early days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 14 hours ago, cosmic said: Try to ignore Darragh MacAnthony as he’s a bit of an attention-seeker, but can’t argue with this line: ” MacAnthony labelled the decision not to start Marriott at Wembley as a "rookie" mistake and also said "he will fly under a new manager". “ Have to agree. Marriott will be a goal machine under a new manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buckley’s Dog Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, angieram said: I like him too and I would have definitely started Waghorn if fit but less sure about Marriott. This mainly because the Leeds game apart, he's looked pretty ineffective when starting games since his injury. I think that I am with the people who saw him as the game changer after Bennett had run the defence around and that might still have worked if we hadn't let that stupid second goal in. It was coming and my criticism is that we should have changed things sooner. The only thing that I object to is people stating that we would have won if we'd started Marriott. As you say, we might have, we might not have. It just gets my goat when people state it as fact. Bloody hell, I sincerely hope that Marriott becomes our Ian (Wright or Rush!) but he's not quite there yet. Early days. Phil Gee was going to be the new Ian Rush so I don’t see why Marriott can’t! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said: Phil Gee was going to be the new Ian Rush so I don’t see why Marriott can’t! Uncut diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Roos throwing one in was as bigger an issue as the amount of time Marriott was on the pitch. That moment was as disappointing as anything else that happened at Wembley. If it was not for that moment I think the Waghorn/Marriott contribution in last 30 minutes was so close to getting us there. (God Damn It)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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