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1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

I know, I watched that with amazement - it was everything that is wrong about the tool.

We're now using it (supposedly) to consider whether actions in open play are being missed. Again, I refer to rugby where the ref is mic'ed up and the ref clearly requests, with everyone hearing, what to look for - last night we had no clue, the ref was instructed to go to VAR and the whole momentum of the game was lost. The VAR assistant who seems to decide to call for the check, the ref last night clearly was not running that. By the time the goal was finally awarded, after it had been reviewed for reasons we were completely unsure of, it got little more than a light round of applause. Imagine if that had been Marriott's goal at Leeds and you are reduced to celebrating via a delayed link two minutes coz some jobsworth in a studio wants to 'have a look at it'.

Wrong on all levels and that showed it perfectly, the reasons, the technology and the implementation.

Trouble is when there is a option to review a ref or the video ref would be a fool not to take it.  Where the offence is objective than it should be straightforward but others are always going to be a problem.  How do they possibly identify what is not a clear and obvious infringement.  If this is to continue then the existing rules need to change to meet the way VAR is currently used.

I would to make it the responsibility of the teams to ask for a video review on a limited basis.  What we can't have imo is a hand of god incident or Henry v Ireland.

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13 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Not sure why but it seems the VAR decisions in the Women's World Cup have seemed much more contentious than anything in last year's Men's tournament

I think it's here to stay, but I hope they do tweak the rules to make the obvious frustrations with it less erm..frustrating

1. No more marginal offside decisions. Daylight between the upper bodies would be fair

2. No more keeper has to have one foot on the line rubbish. As long as they are not clearly miles off the line and moving forwards before the kick is taken that should be acceptable

3. Handballs in the area. It's daft when they show it in slow motion as it totally distorts the perception of how much chance there was for the defender to move limbs out of the way. A trickier one, but with the technology now they could easily set a time threshold between ball leaving boot and striking arm that would give a fairer idea of ball to hand/hand to ball

I think Stive that the issue here is the authorities have seen VAR as an opportunity to introduce new rules - or interpretations of rules - that can only realistically be enforced through VAR. It's scope-creep by another name.

This has then been compounded by actually introducing the new rules at the tournament rather than trialling first.

The new rule about the goalkeeper at a penalty now having to keep at least 1 foot on the line as the ball is struck is a case in point. 3 penalties have now been retaken as a result of this rule. The points being made very eloquently in yesterday evenings analysis were....

- coaches have not had an opportunity to retrain goalkeepers to move laterally, not forwards because the rule has only been introduced AT the world cup

- in one case the penalty was put wide so how did the fact that the goalkeepers foot was literally a couple of cm in front of the goal line confer an advantage. There should be some discretion

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Spanish said:

What we can't have imo is a hand of god incident or Henry v Ireland.

Why can't we? I really don't think we would have won that Argentina goal anyway, it's a moot point. As for Henry, if I may I think we're all being a bit naive to suggest that somehow we're going to remove all contention from the game - so much in our game is based on opinion and interpretation (fouls. penalties, interfering with play now) and I'm not sure I'd want it.

We also might well not even had our one World Cup if VAR had existed, as the Scots say the second wasn't over the line and the game should have been stopped before the fourth was scored. VAR would have nailed that.

Also, this forum would be a thing of strangeness if we did - 'was it a penalty?' 'yes - thread closed'. So, for David and the others - no thank you.

BTW - just in seriousness, I'm not opposed to technology but I am opposed to the third party camera review that we have. It doesn't work.

Edited by BaaLocks

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1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

Why can't we? I really don't think we would have won that Argentina goal anyway, it's a moot point. As for Henry, if I may I think we're all being a bit naive to suggest that somehow we're going to remove all contention from the game - so much in our game is based on opinion and interpretation (fouls. penalties, interfering with play now) and I'm not sure I'd want it.

We also might well not even had our one World Cup if VAR had existed, as the Scots say the second wasn't over the line and the game should have been stopped before the fourth was scored. VAR would have nailed that.

Also, this forum would be a thing of strangeness if we did - 'was it a penalty?' 'yes - thread closed'. So, for David and the others - no thank you.

BTW - just in seriousness, I'm not opposed to technology but I am opposed to the third party camera review that we have. It doesn't work.

Goals change games, who knows what would have happened, neither of us.  

Do you want to bin the goal line technology?  In one sentence you suggest that we would still have lost to Argentina and in another we wouldn't have won the WC.  The fat drug cheat handled the ball but there is nothing clear about the WG goal 

We hold different views.  All I am saying is that things could be improved if handled the correct way.  I've made the point about objective and subjective scenarios.  In no way have I naively suggested that this is a solution to end contention.  FWIW I thought it was handled well during the last World Cup it's just the recent adoption that appears to be crazy

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12 minutes ago, Spanish said:

Do you want to bin the goal line technology?  In one sentence you suggest that we would still have lost to Argentina and in another we wouldn't have won the WC.  The fat drug cheat handled the ball but there is nothing clear about the WG goal 

We hold different views.  All I am saying is that things could be improved if handled the correct way.  I've made the point about objective and subjective scenarios.  In no way have I naively suggested that this is a solution to end contention.  FWIW I thought it was handled well during the last World Cup it's just the recent adoption that appears to be crazy

My views, I think you'll find we're not that far apart:

- Football is a nuanced game, to think we can get to a place where everything is clear is unrealistic

- That said, I do support technology to help on the more clear cut decisions

- But, that said, camera reviews and people other than the refs making decisions, away from the field of play, does not work. It breaks the flow of the game and also is not the best way to do it

On the Argentina, Geoff Hurst part I am merely saying that over the years it could be claimed we've benefited as much as we've been wronged. You're right, I don't know, but had we limply gone out 1-0 or in extra time to Argentina in 1986 nobody would be mentioning it so even when we're on the receiving end we somehow gain from it. As for Geoff Hurst, I thought I saw somewhere proof it was actually over the line but still.

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Read somewhere that the Premier league will not use VAR to check the movement of the keeper during the taking of a penalty.

So it will be ok to use VAR to identity one infringement of the rules but to completely ignore it when another rule is broken. Thought it was being introduced to stop controversies.

 

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15 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Read somewhere that the Premier league will not use VAR to check the movement of the keeper during the taking of a penalty.

So it will be ok to use VAR to identity one infringement of the rules but to completely ignore it when another rule is broken. Thought it was being introduced to stop controversies.

 

I was also thinking what's to stop keepers insisting on a retake because they were off their line when a penalty is scored "I was off my line, must be retaken, go check the VAR" after all, rules is rules, eh?

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On 21/06/2019 at 22:14, RadioactiveWaste said:

I was also thinking what's to stop keepers insisting on a retake because they were off their line when a penalty is scored "I was off my line, must be retaken, go check the VAR" after all, rules is rules, eh?

They do get a yellow card for it so i suppose thats a deterrent.

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51 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

They do get a yellow card for it so i suppose thats a deterrent.

https://www.theifab.com/news/temporary-dispensation-related-to-cautions-for-goalkeeper-encroachment-during-kicks-from-the-penalty-mark-at-the-fifa-womens-world-cup-2019

Not the clearest of articles but they've changed that now for the rest of the tournament, it may only mean in penalty shoot-outs though.

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On 17/06/2019 at 22:23, 1of4 said:

If VAR is implemented in the Premiership the same as it as been in the womens world cup. It should make for some interesting viewing. 

Nearly makes me pleased that we'll not be part of the ensuing madness that will be the Premiership next season.

Agree. Every foul in the area will be followed by the premiership primadonnas surrounding the ref making the tv gesture. Same for a goal. Just stupid. It will kill the pace of the game.

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As far as using VAR in off-side decision I've got problem with. It's the margin of when someone is classified as off-side that needs a rethink. 

I think that there should be a clear gap between the torsos of the two players before an off-side decision is made

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On 21/06/2019 at 20:57, 1of4 said:

Read somewhere that the Premier league will not use VAR to check the movement of the keeper during the taking of a penalty.

So it will be ok to use VAR to identity one infringement of the rules but to completely ignore it when another rule is broken. Thought it was being introduced to stop controversies.

 

Shaking my head in disbelief.  One of the rules which is clear but oh no let’s just ignore it.

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