Igorlegend11 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Doing the legwork for everyone else here... Debut in the last 1 year Felix Nmecha Poveda Eric Garcia Bernabe Muric Claudio Gomes Debut in the last 3 years Dele-Bashiru Lukas Nmecha Foden Brahim Diaz Maffeo Debut in the last 10 years Barker Faupala Adarabioyo Alex Garcia Humphreys Angelino Celina George Evans Manu Garcia Iheanacho Pozo Huws Marcos Lopes Helan Denis Suarez Scapuzzi Rekik Wabara McGivern Razak Chantler Guidetti Mee Vidal Nimely Cunningham Ibrahim Boyata Out of that whole list, only a few made more than 10 league appearances: Foden, Iheanacho, Boyata Most listed didn't even play a single minute of league football I assume our list is decidedly smaller ....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 11 hours ago, irobinson said: is he that good? Absolutely no clue. Finding out any information on U16s is pretty tough. Mainly because they're all children ? - He scored one goal in his 7 appearances for the U18s though, didn't look like much at that level. I assume all this is on the back of him winning the golden boot for England u16s at the tourney in Turkey, with his 4 goals. It's certainly a gamble for Man City - because you never really know with a player that young, but if anyone can throw £1.2m away at a very young prospect it's them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: I assume our list is decidedly smaller ....? Aye - every academy list is similar, especially within the same category. 1 in 20 Cat One academy players make the first team (more than X games, 5 or 10 or something), I think. Something like that is the average but its been a while since I read that. Of course, teams as strong as Man City have it a little easier when it comes to giving players their debut. They'll do it in any cup game where they're not playing against a top 10 prem side, that's why you have to put a minimum on the number of games ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, SaintRam said: Aye - every academy list is similar, especially within the same category. 1 in 20 Cat One academy players make the first team (more than X games, 5 or 10 or something), I think. Something like that is the average but its been a while since I read that. Interesting. If there are 92 League clubs with say 20 first team players that's almost 2,000 professionals. So if success rate of academy is 1 in 20 then that's 40,000 in academies to produce the 2,000 professionals. A turnover every two years of new academy players. That's some mini industry going in and hence the high running costs. Even clubs at Mickleover Sports level run academies ( kids play in league games and train daily alongside studying ) I still think top players shine and are good to play professional football aged 16/17/18 as has been case with Tom, Will and Mason. Tom and Will stepped straight in and performed instantly. I can't think of any breaking through aged 20/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: Interesting. If there are 92 League clubs with say 20 first team players that's almost 2,000 professionals. So if success rate of academy is 1 in 20 then that's 40,000 in academies to produce the 2,000 professionals. A turnover every two years of new academy players. That's some mini industry going in and hence the high running costs. Even clubs at Mickleover Sports level run academies ( kids play in league games and train daily alongside studying ) I still think top players shine and are good to play professional football aged 16/17/18 as has been case with Tom, Will and Mason. Tom and Will stepped straight in and performed instantly. I can't think of any breaking through aged 20/21 Although that number is changed somewhat when you factor in the players that get released by their academies, who then go on to play first team football in lower/different leagues. Which is probably the majority of professional players, if you actually follow a players history. Some of those players climb back up the tiers with age, too. An obvious example of this type of player is Jack Marriott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, SaintRam said: An obvious example of this type of player is Jack Marriott. A mate at work is an Ipswich fan and he keeps grumbling at me that we took Waggers from them AND signed Marriott at the same time - Apparently that should have been their forward line up last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 56 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Doing the legwork for everyone else here... Out of that whole list, only a few made more than 10 league appearances: Foden, Iheanacho, Boyata Most listed didn't even play a single minute of league football Just a couple of things, I take it you’re including cups as Ben Mee didn’t play for City in the League? Also Denis Suarez came through Celta youth team, Man City picked him up after a season playing with Celta B, you’re not having that one and now feel compelled to fact check your full list when I can be bothered ? Finally, might not be worth mentioning but Man City EDS only started in 11/12, before then it was a traditional reserves league, not sure if that matters though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 50 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: I assume our list is decidedly smaller ....? Academy players making appearances in the last 10 years Addison (not debut) Greg Mills Arnaud Mendy Ball Ryan Connolly Hendrick O'Brien Atkins Severn Hughes Bennett Grant (not 1st debut) Kwame Thomas Hanson Lowe Elsnik Vernam Huddlestone (not 1st debut) Luke Thomas Guy Gordon Bird Bogle Mitchell-Lawson However the number of players to make more than 10 league apps is much bigger: Bogle, Lowe, Ball, O'Brien, Hanson, Bennett, Addison, Hughes, Hendrick, Grant, Huddlestone It's worth noting that the Man City list includes players who weren't 'youth players', whereas the Derby list doesn't. Otherwise, we could include: Conor Doyle, Pringle, Gjokaj, Hoganson, Santos, Mitchell and Ssewankambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 This threads quite long for a kid that most of us hasn’t even seen play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 41 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: Interesting. If there are 92 League clubs with say 20 first team players that's almost 2,000 professionals. So if success rate of academy is 1 in 20 then that's 40,000 in academies to produce the 2,000 professionals. A turnover every two years of new academy players. That's some mini industry going in and hence the high running costs. Even clubs at Mickleover Sports level run academies ( kids play in league games and train daily alongside studying ) I still think top players shine and are good to play professional football aged 16/17/18 as has been case with Tom, Will and Mason. Tom and Will stepped straight in and performed instantly. I can't think of any breaking through aged 20/21 Harry Kane is the one everyone names who broke through late. But as a general rule I think you are probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, David said: Just a couple of things, I take it you’re including cups as Ben Mee didn’t play for City in the League? Also Denis Suarez came through Celta youth team, Man City picked him up after a season playing with Celta B, you’re not having that one and now feel compelled to fact check your full list when I can be bothered ? Finally, might not be worth mentioning but Man City EDS only started in 11/12, before then it was a traditional reserves league, not sure if that matters though. List is all players to have appeared in a competitive game for them - most didn't play a single second in the league. How long does a player have to be there for them to be classed as 'youth players'? Or do they have to be there before a certain age? The list of players came from this wiki page. Feel free to chalk some off for not being true youth players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, therealhantsram said: Harry Kane is the one everyone names who broke through late. But as a general rule I think you are probably right. Harry was always a late learner at talking too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: How long does a player have to be there for them to be classed as 'youth players'? Or do they have to be there before a certain age? Well this is what I was trying to clarify with Adam before making any list as I was pulled up for using Bogle as an example and told he “didn’t actually come through our youth system as such” whilst I was replying to a member that was using Zinchenko and Patrick Roberts which went unchecked and probably would have if I didn’t enter the thread. Had I made your list from Derby’s academy with no boundaries put it in place it would have been torn apart, and with no agreement coming on what does qualify as a youth academy product I thought it would be best to agree to disagree. Personally I think if they spend a couple of young teenage seasons playing in the academy before making their first team debut you can say they are from the academy, although the “one of our own chant” should be reserved for local players that have spent their entire youth career at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Here’s an example for you @Ghost of Clough, Ivan Calero, signed from Atletico Madrid B in 2014 at 19 years old. Made his debut in the League Cup in August 2014. Left the club in 2016 Denis Suárez, signed from Celta B in 2011 at 17 years old. Made his debut in the second round of League Cup in 2011. Left the club in 2013. Suarez makes Man City’s list, Calero doesn’t make Derby’s list. Not a pop or anything, I know you’ve used the Man City EDS Wiki page, I would imagine most clubs like to claim players as their products as promotion for their academies. I wouldn’t consider either to be youth products of either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 At least he’s going to Man City instead of Manure. Bright lad, better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 4 hours ago, cheron85 said: A mate at work is an Ipswich fan and he keeps grumbling at me that we took Waggers from them AND signed Marriott at the same time - Apparently that should have been their forward line up last season Didn't mention Lawrence . You could drop that in . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Didn't mention Lawrence . You could drop that in . He's a nice lad - I don't want to make him cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 On 08/06/2019 at 22:45, MackworthRamIsGod said: If we got 2.2 million for Luke Thomas and Delap that isn't bad business, providing their is a decent sell on clause. I do not want to be losing Sibley though! It is very bad business if they go for £10 million each in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagRam Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 18 hours ago, irobinson said: is he that good? Spoke to a teammate of his, he says he thinks he will struggle at city and his best choice would’ve been at Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 42 minutes ago, BagRam said: Spoke to a teammate of his, he says he thinks he will struggle at city and his best choice would’ve been at Derby. Would've been? Has Delap gone then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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