Abu Dhabi Ram Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 7 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: Yeah let’s bosh 4/5 16/17year olds in our first team. They’ll gain value but we’ll be in a relegation battle. Calm down Alan Hanson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Dhabi Ram Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 23 hours ago, Ambitious said: I know it’s been said already, but I’ll reiterate the point: Derby County have no say in this; we can either negotiate a fee or let a committee deem the correct fee. All the best to the lad, obviously it cuts his first team chances down by some way but he will be around some of the best players in the world aiding his development. He will no doubt be paid handsomely for his services too. City are a good club and will look after him. I think this thread has become slightly mixed and people are not talking about just Delap, like others have said, we can't do much about his situation. We can about the ones under contract though. Whatever happens, I do believe Lampard and Morris will make the right decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 46 minutes ago, David said: Bogle arrived in the summer 2016 as a scholar, he would have been 15 at the time. Whilst he might not have had the years under his belt that say Mason Bennett has, I fail to see how we can’t give our academy any credit for his progression. At what age must players arrive at a club to fit your criteria of coming through our youth system, or do you base it on years served at the academy? Not sure where I said that the academy didn’t deserve any credit, you said being wiser that it’s harder to break through at City, I was asking what foundations this was based upon . I can only give my view as I said of academy’s I have experienced or heard about. It’s interesting to see why you believe it’s more likely to happen earlier or be easier at Derby than city ? As I said is it the numbers they retain, or something else ? I only mentioned Bogle as you gave him as an example of the route being easier however I was merely pointing out that he is the only youth product that has made it into the team on a regular basis for the past 6 years ? Another of our own is now 22, still finding it difficult to break into the team having had many big money signings being brought in to do his job. Also given we took Bogle from a smaller club at a similar age, would you have given the same advice to him when he moved ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 8 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: People are scoffing at £1/1.2m because their crystal balls are telling them out academy is full of soon to be world class superstars. £1m bought us Holmes with change last year. A youngish exciting player, ready for the first team, potential to sell on for a decent wedge. I think we got money off because of his height. If he was 5 foot 10 he'd have cost another million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, RamNut said: I think we got money off because of his height. If he was 5 foot 10 he'd have cost another million. Many would pay a million for another 3 or 4 inches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Not sure where I said that the academy didn’t deserve any credit, you said being wiser that it’s harder to break through at City, I was asking what foundations this was based upon . I can only give my view as I said of academy’s I have experienced or heard about. It’s interesting to see why you believe it’s more likely to happen earlier or be easier at Derby than city ? As I said is it the numbers they retain, or something else ? I only mentioned Bogle as you gave him as an example of the route being easier however I was merely pointing out that he is the only youth product that has made it into the team on a regular basis for the past 6 years ? Another of our own is now 22, still finding it difficult to break into the team having had many big money signings being brought in to do his job. Also given we took Bogle from a smaller club at a similar age, would you have given the same advice to him when he moved ? I said older and less wiser, feel free to check ? I believe, and I’m not the only one to comment in this topic it would be more difficult to breakthrough at Man City, this is based on looking at the amount of money they chuck around on players, and the lack of players that have broke through recently. Only Foden springs to mind, I can’t accept Zinchenko being a product of their academy. As City look to strengthen to secure their grip on the title and look to do better in the Champions League I can only imagine this will make it more difficult with the chequebook out again. At Derby given the financial constraints, a player which looks to be a talent you would expect to find the pathway more clearer than it would be at Man City, unfortunately we don’t have a string of £50m signings for each position. Don’t get me wrong, he could have a decent season with City’s EDS and earn himself a decent loan move, which could lead on to far greater things for the lad, I don’t begrudge him at all for taking the opportunity. Just feel that in terms of breaking through at City or Derby, it would be a far easier path here if he is the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irobinson Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 is he that good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 57 minutes ago, RamNut said: I think we got money off because of his height. If he was 5 foot 10 he'd have cost another million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, David said: I said older and less wiser, feel free to check ? I believe, and I’m not the only one to comment in this topic it would be more difficult to breakthrough at Man City, this is based on looking at the amount of money they chuck around on players, and the lack of players that have broke through recently. Only Foden springs to mind, I can’t accept Zinchenko being a product of their academy. As City look to strengthen to secure their grip on the title and look to do better in the Champions League I can only imagine this will make it more difficult with the chequebook out again. At Derby given the financial constraints, a player which looks to be a talent you would expect to find the pathway more clearer than it would be at Man City, unfortunately we don’t have a string of £50m signings for each position. Don’t get me wrong, he could have a decent season with City’s EDS and earn himself a decent loan move, which could lead on to far greater things for the lad, I don’t begrudge him at all for taking the opportunity. Just feel that in terms of breaking through at City or Derby, it would be a far easier path here if he is the real deal. I’m not so sure, his development at City I believe would be better, if we were sitting here with lots of example where our academy players had made it I’d me more inclined to agree, look at the Thomas thread for example. City have a host of players that have been at their academy and gone on to make a good career or have one in front of them, you say City haven’t had many that have broke through, have we ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, AdamRam said: I’m not so sure, his development at City I believe would be better, if we were sitting here with lots of example where our academy players had made it I’d me more inclined to agree, look at the Thomas thread for example. City have a host of players that have been at their academy and gone on to make a good career or have one in front of them, you say City haven’t had many that have broke through, have we ??? Can you give any examples of players that have broke through at Man City recently? I’m not talking about players that have been shipped out on loan and eventually sold on, players that have played a number of games for Man City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, David said: Can you give any examples of players that have broke through at Man City recently? I’m not talking about players that have been shipped out on loan and eventually sold on, players that have played a number of games for Man City. You’ve really got into these rhetorical questions haven’t you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagRam Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, David said: Can you give any examples of players that have broke through at Man City recently? I’m not talking about players that have been shipped out on loan and eventually sold on, players that have played a number of games for Man City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagRam Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Just an update on Delap to city- told him and city are just finalising terms. After speaking to a teammate at Derby, he has confirmed the deal to be worth £1.2 million. Delap rejected a scholar at Derby for a pro contract at city ( fairly understandable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Boycie said: You’ve really got into these rhetorical questions haven’t you? Wasn’t rhetorical, can only think of Foden. Adarabioyo who spent the season with WBA played in the Champions League twice for them, but would you class two game as breaking through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, David said: Wasn’t rhetorical, can only think of Foden. Adarabioyo who spent the season with WBA played in the Champions League twice for them, but would you class two game as breaking through? Text book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 41 minutes ago, David said: Can you give any examples of players that have broke through at Man City recently? I’m not talking about players that have been shipped out on loan and eventually sold on, players that have played a number of games for Man City. As I said in my last post not many, feel free to check ? However I would hazard a guess they will have more youth academy players that have played for their first team in the last few years than we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, AdamRam said: As I said in my last post not many, feel free to check ? However I would hazard a guess they will have more youth academy players that have played for their first team in the last few years than we have. What timespan do you have in mind? I have a feeling this is one of those “few years” that will stretch back to Shaun Wright-Phillips If needs must. Even then as you have ruled Bogle out, I assume Hendrick wouldn’t pass your criteria either and Will Hughes will be Mickelover Jubilee youth team not Derby. I can sense I’m on to a lose/lose situation here so it might be quicker and easier to agree to disagree on this, if you believe young players will find it easier to fight their way ahead of Man City’s superstars than Derby, I will politely disagree. I will meet you on he may develop better at City and go on to better things away from City than he would had he stayed, even then it’s one of those you never know what would have happened at Derby. Take David Brooks for example, he was released from Man City at 17, Sheff Utd had to create games in between U18s and U23s, just for him to develop, they saw something City didn’t and it turned out quite well for him. Would he have ever made the Man City grade? Who knows, could have easily been another failed young footballer. As you say, you’re around academies and speak to parents so will be fully aware of this. Either way I wish him luck and hope things work out for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, David said: What timespan do you have in mind? I have a feeling this is one of those “few years” that will stretch back to Shaun Wright-Phillips If needs must. Even then as you have ruled Bogle out, I assume Hendrick wouldn’t pass your criteria either and Will Hughes will be Mickelover Jubilee youth team not Derby. I can sense I’m on to a lose/lose situation here so it might be quicker and easier to agree to disagree on this, if you believe young players will find it easier to fight their way ahead of Man City’s superstars than Derby, I will politely disagree. I will meet you on he may develop better at City and go on to better things away from City than he would had he stayed, even then it’s one of those you never know what would have happened at Derby. Take David Brooks for example, he was released from Man City at 17, Sheff Utd had to create games in between U18s and U23s, just for him to develop, they saw something City didn’t and it turned out quite well for him. Would he have ever made the Man City grade? Who knows, could have easily been another failed young footballer. As you say, you’re around academies and speak to parents so will be fully aware of this. Either way I wish him luck and hope things work out for him. At no point have I said anything bad about our academy, I haven’t said that we didn’t bring Bogle through, and I’m not sure why you go onto assuming I would have a criteria for what classes as an academy success. It’s an area where MM can take a lot of credit for. My point, as it was at the start that there is nothing to show that he will have a better chance of success here than City, we haven’t got a track record for bringing youth through, and for me if you work under better coaches, have better facilities etc...you are more likely to progress as a player, I expect his Dad recognises this as well, given his age I believe although could be wrong he still has to give consent. I hope given our success with the younger players, we have more players break through but for the same reason as why Bogle choose to leave Swindon, you can see why the lad thinks he will be better off at City, even if it’s only cup games they are still playing more youth than us at this present time. However happy to disagree it’s only my opinion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taribo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 £1.2m for the next Callum Ball, bargain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 9 hours ago, David said: What timespan do you have in mind? I have a feeling this is one of those “few years” that will stretch back to Shaun Wright-Phillips If needs must. Even then as you have ruled Bogle out, I assume Hendrick wouldn’t pass your criteria either and Will Hughes will be Mickelover Jubilee youth team not Derby. I can sense I’m on to a lose/lose situation here so it might be quicker and easier to agree to disagree on this, if you believe young players will find it easier to fight their way ahead of Man City’s superstars than Derby, I will politely disagree. I will meet you on he may develop better at City and go on to better things away from City than he would had he stayed, even then it’s one of those you never know what would have happened at Derby. Take David Brooks for example, he was released from Man City at 17, Sheff Utd had to create games in between U18s and U23s, just for him to develop, they saw something City didn’t and it turned out quite well for him. Would he have ever made the Man City grade? Who knows, could have easily been another failed young footballer. As you say, you’re around academies and speak to parents so will be fully aware of this. Either way I wish him luck and hope things work out for him. Doing the legwork for everyone else here... Debut in the last 1 year Felix Nmecha Poveda Eric Garcia Bernabe Muric Claudio Gomes Debut in the last 3 years Dele-Bashiru Lukas Nmecha Foden Brahim Diaz Maffeo Debut in the last 10 years Barker Faupala Adarabioyo Alex Garcia Humphreys Angelino Celina George Evans Manu Garcia Iheanacho Pozo Huws Marcos Lopes Helan Denis Suarez Scapuzzi Rekik Wabara McGivern Razak Chantler Guidetti Mee Vidal Nimely Cunningham Ibrahim Boyata Out of that whole list, only a few made more than 10 league appearances: Foden, Iheanacho, Boyata Most listed didn't even play a single minute of league football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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