Liam Delap - Signed for Man City

[G-Ram]

If I was delap I'd go. Their academy is better than our academy. We won the league which is excellent but i dont always think league position is always the sign of the best academy when they loan out so many youngsters. 

He has a better chance of high level football at City. Foden is getting games. Zinchenko was bought for the youth team & is getting games. If your not good enough to get games then Diaz has gone Madrid & sancho is now in the England squad. Even Roberts that is no way near their level will get a prem move.

Even if your not at that level you'd probably get £10k for being no where near their first team then get a decent move on the back of being at City's academy 

[David]

1 hour ago, G-Ram said:

Zinchenko was bought for the youth team & is getting games.

Zinchenko came through Shakhtar Donetsk youth team, signed for FK Ufa and played a season in the Russian Premier League before joining Man City and shipped straight out on loan to PSV where he even played in the Champions League.

Sorry but you can’t that that one.

[jimbo jones]

2 hours ago, SaintRam said:

You don't get to keep hold of 16 year old, non professional players, if a team comes in for them and they want to go.

You get no say in the matter. We have absolutely no means by which to keep hold of him.

Not about asking price, not about his contract, if a 16 year old without a pro contract wants to leave they can just leave.

You must be about the 5th person to painstakingly point this out, you’re pissing in the wind though. People either don’t bother reading the previous posts before coming on and having a moan, or this fact just doesn’t compute in their brains.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

5 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

You must be about the 5th person to painstakingly point this out, you’re pissing in the wind though. People either don’t bother reading the previous posts before coming on and having a moan, or this fact just doesn’t compute in their brains.

I think it's because they have convinced themselves their own thoughts are true when in fact, they know nothing. 

A bit like Harry Wilsons price tag set at 21m - these are the same papers that are consistantly linking FL with Chelsea. Most of it is bullsh1t. 

[sonofmidnight]

1 hour ago, jimbo jones said:

You must be about the 5th person to painstakingly point this out, you’re pissing in the wind though. People either don’t bother reading the previous posts before coming on and having a moan, or this fact just doesn’t compute in their brains.

We know the facts. We just don't like them! It saddens me to think that talent has been nurtured both by schools in Derbyshire and later by our academy and yet the big clubs just take their pick. Don't point out yet again that's the way it is. I know!

[StarterForTen]

Man City are doing to us what we did to Swindon over the recruitment of Jayden Bogle, albeit he was a scholar rather than an Academy player at the time as he was still at school.

We were the big fish in that deal. Now we're a minnow up against a shark.

[IlsonDerby]

17 hours ago, Abu Dhabi Ram said:

Or we could play them in our first team and watch their value rocket. Southampton sold off their youngsters for over 100 million. Why are we hyping up 15 million for 4 players all with a lot of potential?

We want Lampard to stay and build, we need to do the same with the academy. Long term not short term.

Yeah let’s bosh 4/5 16/17year olds in our first team. They’ll gain value but we’ll be in a relegation battle. 

[jimbo jones]

31 minutes ago, Dappled Ram said:

We know the facts. We just don't like them! It saddens me to think that talent has been nurtured both by schools in Derbyshire and later by our academy and yet the big clubs just take their pick. Don't point out yet again that's the way it is. I know!

Fair enough you know. But some are slagging the club off for “letting him go”. 

Your right it’s disappointing, but I’d guess Swindon felt the same when we swooped in for Jaydon Bogle & Jayden Mitchell-Lawson.

[IlsonDerby]

People are scoffing at £1/1.2m because their crystal balls are telling them out academy is full of soon to be world class superstars. 

 

£1m bought us Holmes with change last year. A youngish exciting player, ready for the first team, potential to sell on for a decent wedge. 

 

This is the sort if wheeling and dealing a club in the championship without parachute payments has to do.  

 

I’d love us to have a team of 11 class academy graduates but it’s not not probable. We have to supplement our youth who are ready with experience and youth from prem clubs that are further developed than our own. 

[cheron85]

1 hour ago, CHCDerby said:

A bit like Harry Wilsons price tag set at 21m - these are the same papers that are consistantly linking FL with Chelsea. Most of it is bullsh1t. 

This I find hilarious

So they're saying Lampard is off to Chelsea - And we're signing Wilson for £21m - Do they really think he'd come if Lampard isn't here?

32 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

£1m bought us Holmes with change last year. A youngish exciting player, ready for the first team, potential to sell on for a decent wedge. 

With LOADS of change too

Some kid I've never heard of who's probably not going to make the first team for another couple of years - Or give Lampard the chance to bring in someone who could affect the team right away

Easy choice for me - How many 'amazing' young players have we had knocking around the last few years who haven't made the team - Elsnik being the latest - I hope for the lad's sake he has an amazing career but who knows

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

5 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

This I find hilarious

So they're saying Lampard is off to Chelsea - And we're signing Wilson for £21m - Do they really think he'd come if Lampard isn't here?

With LOADS of change too

Some kid I've never heard of who's probably not going to make the first team for another couple of years - Or give Lampard the chance to bring in someone who could affect the team right away

Easy choice for me - How many 'amazing' young players have we had knocking around the last few years who haven't made the team - Elsnik being the latest - I hope for the lad's sake he has an amazing career but who knows

In other words, Lampard isn't going to Chelsea and Harry Wilson isn't being sold for 21m, it could be much less than this. Somebody that hasn't been near the first team enough can't be worth that much. 

[S8TY]

I'd say virtually impossible to stop the Delap deal due to his age and the fact its City

They say you have to take your chances in football and for Delap himself this is a massive oppurtunity  so as long as we get a decent wedge and  clauses I say good luck to the lad 

[Rampage]

Small fish in big pool on bigger wages?

[G-Ram]

5 hours ago, David said:

Zinchenko came through Shakhtar Donetsk youth team, signed for FK Ufa and played a season in the Russian Premier League before joining Man City and shipped straight out on loan to PSV where he even played in the Champions League.

Sorry but you can’t that that one.

Point being they signed him for £1m. Loaned him out, started giving him game time and brought him through to play first team. Point is its not all £60m signings & straight into the first team.

Fair enough delap hasnt played any first team football yet but there is a route to the first team for players at city & if you're not good enough you are likely to get a decent move on the back of not being good enough for them 

[David]

2 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

Point being they signed him for £1m. Loaned him out, started giving him game time and brought him through to play first team. Point is its not all £60m signings & straight into the first team.

Fair enough delap hasnt played any first team football yet but there is a route to the first team for players at city & if you're not good enough you are likely to get a decent move on the back of not being good enough for them 

Your point which you said was he was brought for the youth team, I don’t see that because the first thing they did was send him out on loan to PSV first team. The next season he was in Man City’s first team playing the Premier League and Champions League. 

I wouldn’t be using him as an example of a route to the first team, Phil Foden yes but not Zinchenko. 

I would also argue the path to the first team at Man City is not that clear either, Foden himself has only started 5 games in the last 2 seasons and looks a real talent, as a striker Delap will find it even harder to breakthrough with most top clubs rarely playing more than 1 striker.

[G-Ram]

10 minutes ago, David said:

Your point which you said was he was brought for the youth team, I don’t see that because the first thing they did was send him out on loan to PSV first team. The next season he was in Man City’s first team playing the Premier League and Champions League. 

I wouldn’t be using him as an example of a route to the first team, Phil Foden yes but not Zinchenko. 

I would also argue the path to the first team at Man City is not that clear either, Foden himself has only started 5 games in the last 2 seasons and looks a real talent, as a striker Delap will find it even harder to breakthrough with most top clubs rarely playing more than 1 striker.

Maybe 'youth team' isnt the right term but he was purchased for the city youth development system or they wouldnt have loaned him out? They buy players all the time to loan them as part of their development. Theyve bought a kid for £1.7m loaned him as part of that development then introduced him to the first team. So fair enough youth team isn't the correct term but it is in my opinion part of the city youth development system. 

Foden will probably be introduced more & more. He's 18yr old & city have a few key players aging. 

About four year ago they spent £150m - £200m to develop their training centre & academy they are going to eventually attract the best youth & give them first team football if they are good enough. They.'ll start to see the fruit of that academy investment in a couple of years. If you're not good enough you're probably going to be on a similar wage to a first team player at Derby for being in the youth set up at city. If youre not good enough for city you'll probably get a decent move on the back of not being good enough for city.

In my opinion Its a no brainer Delap. If youre good enough you will get a chance. If youre not good enough you'll have more money than sense at 21 yr old. Move to a prem club and be a millionaire before kicking a ball 

Although the route for youth will only get more difficult if they are allowed to set up their London academy to attract youth in a different catchment area 

[David]

32 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

Maybe 'youth team' isnt the right term but he was purchased for the city youth development system or they wouldnt have loaned him out? They buy players all the time to loan them as part of their development. Theyve bought a kid for £1.7m loaned him as part of that development then introduced him to the first team. So fair enough youth team isn't the correct term but it is in my opinion part of the city youth development system. 

Foden will probably be introduced more & more. He's 18yr old & city have a few key players aging. 

About four year ago they spent £150m - £200m to develop their training centre & academy they are going to eventually attract the best youth & give them first team football if they are good enough. They.'ll start to see the fruit of that academy investment in a couple of years. If you're not good enough you're probably going to be on a similar wage to a first team player at Derby for being in the youth set up at city. If youre not good enough for city you'll probably get a decent move on the back of not being good enough for city.

In my opinion Its a no brainer Delap. If youre good enough you will get a chance. If youre not good enough you'll have more money than sense at 21 yr old. Move to a prem club and be a millionaire before kicking a ball 

Although the route for youth will only get more difficult if they are allowed to set up their London academy to attract youth in a different catchment area 

Being a little older and less wiser I may look at and think I he would be better staying at Derby, whilst we may not have invested the money Man City have in the academy the opportunity to breakthrough would be a little easier and can happen earlier in his career.

One good season and you’re linked with £10m+ moves away, look at Bogle.

Definitely don’t begrudge him going though, I can understand why any youngster would want to go to a big club in the Premier League, the lights are big, bright and shiny.

To make it to the top you have to be ambitious, confidence in your ability, maybe a little arrogance to think you will be one of the best, Chelsea’s academy will be full of players that think they will make it. Delap will possibly think Aguero won’t be around forever and whilst that may sound laughable, it’s exactly the mentality you have to have.

It was just the Zinchenko thing, that was a oi oi I’m not having that. ?

[AdamRam]

2 hours ago, David said:

Being a little older and less wiser I may look at and think I he would be better staying at Derby, whilst we may not have invested the money Man City have in the academy the opportunity to breakthrough would be a little easier and can happen earlier in his career.

One good season and you’re linked with £10m+ moves away, look at Bogle.

Definitely don’t begrudge him going though, I can understand why any youngster would want to go to a big club in the Premier League, the lights are big, bright and shiny.

To make it to the top you have to be ambitious, confidence in your ability, maybe a little arrogance to think you will be one of the best, Chelsea’s academy will be full of players that think they will make it. Delap will possibly think Aguero won’t be around forever and whilst that may sound laughable, it’s exactly the mentality you have to have.

It was just the Zinchenko thing, that was a oi oi I’m not having that. ?

Being in an around academy football it’s interesting to hear that the route is easier to break through at Derby. I have lots of discussions regarding the academies in the area with parents that have children either signed up or being approached, although City is not one of them, I’m surprised this is the case.

Bogle is an interesting case as he was only recently taken on board by Derby and didn’t actually come through our youth system as such, other than him we have very few cases of players breaking through. I also believe we havent got the financial backing of clubs like City and the snippets we have heard is that their set up is excellent and therefore I know if we were approached my son would be going their given the choice.

Academies at a young age take kids on by the boat load, and are very brutal with cutting, there is not actually that many that make it, the numbers though dont really vary though in the older age groups from the ones we have dis, as I said I’m surprised it’s harder at City, are the numbers they retain higher do you know, and that’s therefore the reason ?

[David]

35 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Being in an around academy football it’s interesting to hear that the route is easier to break through at Derby. I have lots of discussions regarding the academies in the area with parents that have children either signed up or being approached, although City is not one of them, I’m surprised this is the case.

Bogle is an interesting case as he was only recently taken on board by Derby and didn’t actually come through our youth system as such, other than him we have very few cases of players breaking through. I also believe we havent got the financial backing of clubs like City and the snippets we have heard is that their set up is excellent and therefore I know if we were approached my son would be going their given the choice.

Academies at a young age take kids on by the boat load, and are very brutal with cutting, there is not actually that many that make it, the numbers though dont really vary though in the older age groups from the ones we have dis, as I said I’m surprised it’s harder at City, are the numbers they retain higher do you know, and that’s therefore the reason ?

Bogle arrived in the summer 2016 as a scholar, he would have been 15 at the time. Whilst he might not have had the years under his belt that say Mason Bennett has, I fail to see how we can’t give our academy any credit for his progression. 

At what age must players arrive at a club to fit your criteria of coming through our youth system, or do you base it on years served at the academy?

[bigbadbob]

8 hours ago, jimbo jones said:

You must be about the 5th person to painstakingly point this out, you’re pissing in the wind though. People either don’t bother reading the previous posts before coming on and having a moan, or this fact just doesn’t compute in their brains.

 You're just a bully