LGBT Inclusion for DCFC

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

So is that homophobic abuse or childish terrace banter used to get a reaction? 

You seem to be ignoring the fact that language used to describe a persons sexuality is being used as a term of abuse. What is it about minorities feeling threatened by casual use of abusive language that you don't get?

[ossieram]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

So is that homophobic abuse or childish terrace banter used to get a reaction? 

It's banter in my eyes and I can't say too much about it because I probably started a lot of it, but fans have been arrested for it at Brightons ground.

I suppose some of it is down to age and the way people were raised years ago, but I would never repeat some of the stuff we chanted to opposition fans to get a reaction back in the 70's and 80's.

 

[ossieram]

5 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

It was to do with something he did to i think le saux on the pitch.

But anyway there were chants about fowler taking it up the arse, actual words.

So he isnt gay as far as i know,  but if a gay player looked at that surely it would make him think if fowler gets that and he isnt, what will happen to me.

Yea I remember now, I think le Saux copped for even more abuse because of the rumours that he was gay.

[Tombo]

2 hours ago, Nick_Ram said:

Think a few people are missing my point reference trying to promote inclusivity through exclusive means.

A comment from what I will describe as a professional social worker who works alongside and well FOR the LGBT community has also stuck in my mind and think it makes absolute sense:

"How does 10 members of the LGBT community getting together with only members of this community on a weekly basis promote inclusivity?" 

It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and play the morale high ground against this type of view. But I think its absolutely true. I'm not racist, homophobic or anything of that ilk.

The LGBT community have done fantastically to promote equality and diversity to British culture. But in order to fully promote inclusiveness, they need to recognise it, integrate and just be.

Anyway, I understand that this isn't a popular opinion and may upset some folk so I will leave it there.

It promotes confidence to be themselves in a public space. I'm sure there's lots of openly LGBT people who go to Derby, but the idea is that there may be a few that won't come to Pride Park for fear of prejudice.

The idea is "strength in numbers". Go to the game with a group of LGBT people and integrate that way. Educate in the community and put on fundraisers. Bring LGBT to the DCFC community.

Then more people will feel assured that the club is not somewhere that will judge them. And if they are judged, then there is a group of people that are well equipped to challenge and change it.

It's hard to say if there are people who feel that way, but there might be. It can be a lonely world for those of us who are made to feel "different". This could help those people feel a little less lonely.

[Sith Happens]

Not going to keep posting here as have made my point,  i know some don't agree but i do think a gay player will be the subject of abuse. 

Its not that long ago a large quantity of our fans revelled in chanting what they thought was a humorous chant about Nottingham forests chairman dying.

They would do the same to a gay player without a second thought. In my opinion.

Clearly the people posting here arent morons and i think we all find the idea of abuse horrendous. All we disagree on is how likely it is.

To be honest i hope you are right and i am wrong.

 

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You seem to be ignoring the fact that language used to describe a persons sexuality is being used as a term of abuse. What is it about minorities feeling threatened by casual use of abusive language that you don't get?

I'm not getting how somebody could feel threatened by it. 

What about the you fat bar steward chant, has there been a group set up for fat people?

What about the bar steward in the black chant, has the been a group set up for fatherless people? 

If there's a problem with homophobia I imagine that it exists beyond the boundaries of a football ground. And if it's threatening behaviour then surely it's still matter for police. 

If the stats posted up by Paul71 are correct then I imagine people are being removed from grounds in large numbers.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Paul71 said:

They would do the same to a gay player without a second thought. In my opinion.

Clearly the people posting here arent morons and i think we all find the idea of abuse horrendous. All we disagree on is how likely it is.

To be honest i hope you are right and i am wrong.

As to the likelihood, I'm sure we want to believe the world has become a more tolerant place, just ask that nice Mr Folau.

[Inverurie Ram]

Sing up........

 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm not getting how somebody could feel threatened by it. ...

If there's a problem with homophobia I imagine that it exists beyond the boundaries of a football ground. And if it's threatening behaviour then surely it's still matter for police. 

Because it normalises abusing people for their sexuality, it points a finger at them, it makes them objects of ridicule, hate even. They might not feel threatened inside the stadium but for many I imagine it's an unwelcome reminder of how some people treat them outside the stadium. But also of course as we've seen allowing such 'banter' and ridicule to go unchallenged can just be the beginning of allowing such behaviour to be acceptable. 

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Because it normalises abusing people for their sexuality, it points a finger at them, it makes them objects of ridicule, hate even. They might not feel threatened inside the stadium but for many I imagine it's an unwelcome reminder of how some people treat them outside the stadium. But also of course as we've seen allowing such 'banter' and ridicule to go unchallenged can just be the beginning of allowing such behaviour to be acceptable. 

You've cherry picked my post.

If abuse at football is rife, and we want to be inclusive of everyone, then all abusive chanting must be stopped,  right? 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

You've cherry picked my post.

If abuse at football is rife, and we want to be inclusive of everyone, then all abusive chanting must be stopped,  right? 

Yes.

You're being deliberately obtuse.

[angieram]

Anyone care to recall the abuse Patrick Bamford was getting about his (supposed) sexuality just three weeks' ago on here? 

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yes.

You're being deliberately obtuse.

Why am I?

I just don't understand how you make an environment more inclusive by giving certain groups different treatment. 

I'll leave it there though, let you have the final say.

@ramsLGBT sorry if I've hijacked the thread. Wish you all the best in achieving what you are trying to do.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Why am I?

I just don't understand how you make an environment more inclusive by giving certain groups different treatment. 

Are you a member of a minority group? I wouldn't think so by your previous answers. But imagine supporting Derby away and standing in the Kop at Anfield, would you cheer the Rams on heartily and with great confidence? Be better to have a few like-minded mates with you I reckon.

That's it, feeling more comfortable/secure with people who understand you and where you're from.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Are you a member of a minority group? I wouldn't think so by your previous answers. But imagine supporting Derby away and standing in the Kop at Anfield, would you cheer the Rams on heartily and with great confidence? Be better to have a few like-minded mates with you I reckon.

That's it, feeling more comfortable/secure with people who understand you and where you're from.

I'd be happy being stood with Derby fans.

I wouldn't need to be sat with other 40 something, fat, bald, white men to feel secure/comfortable. Said on numerous posts, I couldn’t care less who I am sat next to at a football match, I go to watch the match and support my team.

[muttley72]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You've cherry picked my post.

If abuse at football is rife, and we want to be inclusive of everyone, then all abusive chanting must be stopped,  right? 

Racist chanting was “part of football banter”, then time moved on, banter didn’t stop, just racist abuse. The point though is a LGBT group could promote the club and encourage other people to enjoy football. Anyone who doesn’t like it doesn’t need to be a part of it so I can’t see why people would have an issue. There’s a salsa dancing class at my gym, I don’t like dancing so I don’t go...but I don’t object to other people having that option at my gym. 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, muttley72 said:

Racist chanting was “part of football banter”, then time moved on, banter didn’t stop, just racist abuse. The point though is a LGBT group could promote the club and encourage other people to enjoy football. Anyone who doesn’t like it doesn’t need to be a part of it so I can’t see why people would have an issue. There’s a salsa dancing class at my gym, I don’t like dancing so I don’t go...but I don’t object to other people having that option at my gym. 

I don't object to it.

I just see these things as trying to paint football in a bad light, perhaps I'm just oversensitive. 

Sure this may encourage more LGBT people to attend but im not sure how specifically having separate groups of fans does anything to address the problems if there are any. 

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'd be happy being stood with Derby fans.

I wouldn't need to be sat with other 40 something, fat, bald, white men to feel secure/comfortable. Said on numerous posts, I couldn’t care less who I am sat next to at a football match, I go to watch the match and support my team.

You seem unable to see that some people feel uncomfortable/angry having abuse chanted that they feel uncomfortable with - you aren't the only one at the match you're in a large disparate crowd - held together by who they support. Try for a moment to think how someone black or gay or female might feel to have to hear (and even have to pretend to sing along with) some of the 'banter' that gets shouted and sung at games. 

[Philmycock]

2 hours ago, ossieram said:

Are you serious? The biggest problem I've found is that people get offended on behalf of other people.

I've got a gay stepdaughter, gay nephews and worked with and become mates with gay blokes over the years and will be honest and say that my views have changes massively over the years just through mixing with and talking to them, but that doesn't stop me from having a joke at their expense or calling them names to their face just like I do with mates who are not gay.

I'm fat and bald and couldn't give a toss if people say it to me as long as they are prepared to have some truths about themself pointed out in return.

Baldy

[muttley72]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

I don't object to it.

I just see these things as trying to paint football in a bad light, perhaps I'm just oversensitive. 

Sure this may encourage more LGBT people to attend but im not sure how specifically having separate groups of fans does anything to address the problems if there are any. 

I think that’s partly the fault of the PC and militant brigade. Believe me, I’m under no illusion that there isn’t an element of LGBT people who want “positive discrimination”, in my mind there’s no such thing, discrimination is discrimination. The formation of a group should not be to the detriment of anyone else, but if it is used to improve things by having a positive impact on the club it has to be a good thing. Giving young people who maybe just come out the confidence that they can go and feel safe. That a group could actually contribute to the club and community like Punjabi Rams have done so brilliantly. The 1884 group formed to improve things. I’m not a militant bloke, I’m fat and old, I swear and am inappropriate...so I really can’t blame anyone else for being the same!