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Young players likely to break through

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9 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

Weird one this but two people who know Luke Thomas have both mentioned to me (separately I might add) that he said he is being sold, and that we are getting not much short of £1 million for him.

Didn't know you had friends at Gloucester Live 🤣

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Derby County U23 and U18 appearances 2018/19

U23s - Appearances - Starts - Goals - Assists - Goal Contributions

Cameron Cresswell 31 30 15 3 18

Jayden Mitchell-Lawson 28 24 7 6 13

Josh Shonibare 26 11 6 0 6

Calum Macdonald 25 25 3 2 5

Louie Sibley 24 21 5 4 9 [U18]

Max Hunt 19 18 1 1 2

Kellan Gordon 17 17 0 1 1

Joe Bateman 17 17 0 0 0

Aaron Eyoma 16 10 0 2 2

Kyle McAllister 16 9 1 2 3

Henrich Ravas 15 15 0 0 0 (GK)

Alex Babos 15 15 2 2 4

Ethan Wassall 15 14 0 0 0

Josh Barnes 14 14 0 0 0 (GK)

Sven Karic 14 9 0 1 1

Jason Knight 10 5 1 0 1 [U18]

Morgan Whittaker 9 5 0 1 1 [U18]

Lee Buchanan 7 7 0 0 0 [U18]

Tyree Wilson 7 2 0 2 2 [U18]

Jordan Brown 5 4 0 0 0 [U18]

Timi Max Elsnik 3 3 1 1 2

Kornell MacDonald 2 2 0 0 0 [U18]

Javaun Splatt 2 0 1 0 1 [U18]

Connor Dixon 2 0 0 0 0 [U18]

Matt Yates 1 1 0 0 0 (GK)

Fuseine Rashid 1 0 0 0 0

Archie Brown 1 0 0 0 0 [U18]

Jack Stretton 1 0 0 0 0 [U18]

Callum Minkley 1 1 0 0 0 [U18]

U18s - Appearances - Starts - Goals - Assists - Goal Contributions

Callum Minkley 29 29 1 1 1

Morgan Whittaker 28 27 24 15 39

Tyree Wilson 27 22 8 11 19

Jason Knight 26 26 8 7 5

Connor Dixon 26 25 5 2 7

Eiran Cashin 26 25 5 0 4

Sam French 24 24 0 0 0 (GK)

Jordan Brown 24 21 1 2 3

Liam Thompson 22 18 1 0 1

Festy Ebosele 22 13 0 3 3

Archie Brown 19 12 7 7 4

Jack Stretton 18 14 14 2 16

Lee Buchanan 16 16 1 1 2

Kornell MacDonald 15 14 1 2 3

Javaun Splatt 13 6 2 0 2

Jaden Charles 13 6 1 1 2

Louie Sibley 12 12 4 4 8

Bradley Foster-Theniger 5 5 0 0 0 (GK)

Yohan Greco 5 2 2 1 3

Harry Halwax 0 0 0 0 0 (GK)

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Posted (edited)

The young players who have been given squad numbers and / or played and / or made the bench this season would be the most likely ones to break through next season as Frank Lampard has already selected / rewarded them this season. So:

Max Bird - 8 senior appearances

Jayden Mitchell-Lawson - 1 senior appearance

Subs (from memory): 

Henrich Ravas

Calum Macdonald

Lee Buchanan

Jason Knight

Tyree Wilson

Plus Max Lowe, Louie Sibley and (possibly) Morgan Whittaker. Maybe Timi Max Elsnik (If offered a new contract) Kyle McAllister and Luke Thomas.

As always, the better candidates will be given an opportunity in pre-season to impress and it will be up to them to take that opportunity as Jayden Bogle did this summer and Will Hughes before him.

There’s also a huge amount of luck. A lot depends on our senior signings this summer and the squad make-up. It’s easier to break through if there’s only one senior player in your position than if there’s four or five.

Finally, at the Fans Forum, a question was asked why Bogle had stayed when a lot of his peers had gone out on loan. Lampard’s answer was that we couldn’t have loaned Bogle out even if we’d wanted to because nobody had heard of him.

 

Edited by Stuartsays

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Posted (edited)

Not one of those who watches the youth games every week but seen a fair amount. Sibley is the one who excites me most, pacey and tenacious. Think he may have featured if we were sitting in 12th with 5 games to go rather than just outside the top 6. Attacking mid with alot of talent. Bird too looks good, as does Thomas at cov this year. Not seen much of McAllister or Lowe up in Scotland but by all accounts they seem to have got on well. 

Edited by RamsFan10

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1 hour ago, StivePesley said:

Bird played against Southampton in the cup and looked pretty lost from what I remember

 

Can't believe so many people being tough on Max Bird in this thread. The lad is only 18 and yet has been captain of the u23 side all season. He also won the EFL apprentice of the year award a couple of weeks back. 

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25 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Can't believe so many people being tough on Max Bird in this thread. The lad is only 18 and yet has been captain of the u23 side all season. He also won the EFL apprentice of the year award a couple of weeks back. 

Not doubting he must have impressed at U23 level - just pointing out that he didn't immediately impress in his limited 1st team outings

The thread is called "Young players likely to break through" after all - he will get there I'm sure

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I haven't seen much of the younger teams this season. but I have watched a handful of both U23 and U18 games. It's difficult to gauge at those levels who will make the step up, especially when trying to predict their potential ceiling and capability in stepping up. Bogle looked good last season at U18 level, but nothing to make me think he was ready for a full season in the first-team. Truth be told, had he shown more promise at U18 level it's likely he would have been loaned out, as per Lampard's comments. It's a very good job he wasn't. 

The truth is that we're likely to lose a number of first team players, mostly on the fringe of the first team, so we're left with a very good pool of young players who many could play a part next season. 

Louie Sibley is definitely my favourite player from the academy. I could well see him getting in the first-team next season, holding his own and kicking on. He seems to be down in the pecking order in favour of some of the older lads, i.e. Knight & Bird though, who've had more first-team opportunities than him up to now. I would also love to see Lee Buchanan afforded a bit of time in the first-team. It's unlikely he would suddenly become one of the first names on the team sheet, but as a left sided CB with a lot of technical ability, he's certainly caught my eye as a good prospect. 

I could really go through the entire academy when it's got so many players doing well: Lowe & Thomas are coming off very productive loan spells. I expect they will be knocking on the door for first-team football here next season. 

In all honesty, take your pick from the following: Max Lowe, Luke Thomas, Henrich Ravas, Calum Macdonald, Max Bird, Jayden Mitchell-Lawson, Louie Sibley, Cameron Cresswell, Morgan Whittaker, Kyle McAllister, Lee Buchanan, Jason Knight & Tyree Wilson. 

I think now would be a good chance to sit down with those players in particular, perhaps a couple more as I'm probably missing some, to tell them that if they work their balls off in the summer then they will get a chance in the preseason games to earn their place in the squad. I know some are still on the young side, but around 18-19 which some of them are then they should be banging the door down if they're good enough. 

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Think with the number of players we need to recruit and ffp limitations it’s inevitable some new players will need to be internal youth promotions. 

In terms of what I’ve seen, I’d probably say sibley is my no1 for a potential step up, he looks absolutely awesome, has a bit of everything and looks physically ready too. Proper all round centre mid, imo could possibly replace mount and play regular for us next season. Could be next years bogle, he’s probably the best prospect I’ve seen since will Hughes. In terms of potential others, if we let a lb go macdonald could probably be decent cover there, he’s a solid composed player from what I’ve seen. Mitchell-Lawson as well could be competition wide off the bench if we play wingers, all round game lacks a little but real quality in the final third to make something happen. Ravas could probably do as backup goalie as well, reasonably competent. Buchanan also looks a real future prospect as a modern cb, could be cover and bled in now but too early in his physical development for regular football to me. Tyree Wilson as well looks a real player, his productivity is excellent and he could make a decent perhaps even regular winger if he can take that performance to first team level. Knight seems highly regarded too, could cover in centre mid where we lack although haven’t seen so much of him.

Plenty of options to be sure if we think any our ready which may save us a few incomings, and wages too. Returning loanees we’ll have to decide the future roles of like Thomas and lowe as well.

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12 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Think with the number of players we need to recruit and ffp limitations it’s inevitable some new players will need to be internal youth promotions.

I don't believe FFP (P&S) will be a problem. 

£14.6m profit last season and a loss of £7.9m loss last season. We can make a loss of around £40m next season and still be absolutely fine. I know it's not that straight forward, but we're well placed to spend some money - ideally on some young talent (Tomori) where the wage will be lower than an experienced player and whereby we can spread the cost of their transfer fee over the contract in terms of FFP. 

The wage bill will be significantly less next season too, considering a lot of the high earners will be gone. We're not in a bad position at all. 

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I'd be tempted to have a look at the squads of those gone up as soon as possible  . Always likely to get a decent player or two surplus to get on loan or cheap in the last year of a contract .   Can't just have a team of twenty year olds or a bench of them .   Maybe try for Vydra on loan as well before someone else does, fancy he'll be back in this league next season. Need a unit as well up front to give us an option for certain games. a Jerome but younger.

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10 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

Weird one this but two people who know Luke Thomas have both mentioned to me (separately I might add) that he said he is being sold, and that we are getting not much short of £1 million for him.

Do both these sources work for the Gloucestershire times? 

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7 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I don't believe FFP (P&S) will be a problem. 

£14.6m profit last season and a loss of £7.9m loss last season. We can make a loss of around £40m next season and still be absolutely fine. I know it's not that straight forward, but we're well placed to spend some money - ideally on some young talent (Tomori) where the wage will be lower than an experienced player and whereby we can spread the cost of their transfer fee over the contract in terms of FFP. 

The wage bill will be significantly less next season too, considering a lot of the high earners will be gone. We're not in a bad position at all. 

We're due to take a huge hit on 'residual value's I think? 

As soon as these 10/11 out of contract players leave we'll have to put their residual values down against us for FFP. I'm pretty sure they have high RV too so we had more wiggle room in previous years. We haven't amortised them consistently. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

I've not seen a huge amount of them but 'd question if Bird was a CDM, but wouldn't question that he has a role to play next season.  I've always been a Thomas fan but having seen him a few times on Sky think he has work to do on his right foot and his physicality.  Sibley will also have a role to play as will four or five others.

Interestingly, mainly because; I've only seen him play once; he hasn't been mentioned by anyone else in the thread; and he's only 16, I have to say Archie Brown is my one to watch.  So many variables at such a young age, but if he can keep his head down, keep working hard and listen and learn I think he has every chance.

Of course, if either of the oracles that are @angieram and @SaintRam say I'm talking drivel, then I'm probably talking drivel 😕

Archie Brown's another great talent at that age. Unsurprisingly, the U18 team that's top of the tree is full of very talented lads 😄 - I think stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't expect Brown to make any first team splashes this coming season. Of course, at the beginning of pre-season, a large number of youths will be mixed with the first team - and if they ace that little trial period, they'll be in the first team picture later on. Literally anyone could end up in contention. Youths are so unpredictable, it's actually really frustrating 😛

 

On the couple of posts about Bird and his ability; it seems to me that Bird has been taken under Lampard's wing to some extent. I recall an interview where he said he'd being staying late to get some one-on-one time in. Maybe Frank sees something of himself in him?
He didn't look all together ready in his brief cameos this season, but maybe he'll be another example of how quickly young players can develop. Especially if such a special interest is going to continue to be taken in him.

Edited by SaintRam

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8 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Archie Brown's another great talent at that age. Unsurprisingly, the U18 team that's top of the tree is full of very talented lads 😄 - I think stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't expect Brown to make any first team splashes this coming season. Of course, at the beginning of pre-season, a large number of youths will be mixed with the first team - and if they ace that little trial period, they'll be in the first team picture later on. Literally anyone could end up in contention. Youths are so unpredictable, it's actually really frustrating 😛

 

On the couple of posts about Bird and his ability; it seems to me that Bird has been taken under Lampard's wing to some extent. I recall an interview where he said he'd being staying late to get some one-on-one time in. Maybe Frank sees something of himself in him?
He didn't look all together ready in his brief cameos this season, but maybe he'll be another example of how quickly young players can develop. Especially if such a special interest is going to continue to be taken in him.

I think some people expect Bird to be like Hughes in one of those two advanced CM spots. When they realise his best position is as the DM, their opinion may change. I think his best 'skills' are his reading of play and defensive positioning. I wouldn't bet against him having the highest interceptions per game in both the U18 and U23 leagues - certainly out of all the midfielders. Unsurprisingly, Championship players are better than youth players, so he needs some experience to adjust to the speed of play and decision making of the opposition. He's got the right character to do that.

In the league, he's only played 1 min in each game against Swansea and Norwich, a full 90 against Villa (where he certainly wasn't the worst player) and 20 mins against Bolton (all 17 passes went to the intended target). 1 start (52 mins) and 3 sub apps (15 mins, 10 mins, 1 min) in the cups. Hardly enough to make a proper judgement.

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9 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I haven't seen much of the younger teams this season. but I have watched a handful of both U23 and U18 games. It's difficult to gauge at those levels who will make the step up, especially when trying to predict their potential ceiling and capability in stepping up. Bogle looked good last season at U18 level, but nothing to make me think he was ready for a full season in the first-team. Truth be told, had he shown more promise at U18 level it's likely he would have been loaned out, as per Lampard's comments. It's a very good job he wasn't. 

Joined summer '16 and scored 4 in 26 games for the U18s from RB. Then by November the following season he was already promoted to the U23s. For the U18s he scored 3 and assisted 2 in his 11 games. He also scored 2 in 7 U23 games. The promise was certainly there hence why he was training with the first team at the end of last season and earned himself a spot on the bench. He catapulted himself from the U18s to one of the best at U23 level in the space of months when he was still 17. It's unusual for someone to go out on loan at such an age. Reece James who is a year older than Bogle had a full season for the U23s before going on loan anywhere (to Wigan this season) Most players 18 or younger who go on loan tend to go to non-league level

Quote

The truth is that we're likely to lose a number of first team players, mostly on the fringe of the first team, so we're left with a very good pool of young players who many could play a part next season. 

Louie Sibley is definitely my favourite player from the academy. I could well see him getting in the first-team next season, holding his own and kicking on. He seems to be down in the pecking order in favour of some of the older lads, i.e. Knight & Bird though, who've had more first-team opportunities than him up to now. I would also love to see Lee Buchanan afforded a bit of time in the first-team. It's unlikely he would suddenly become one of the first names on the team sheet, but as a left sided CB with a lot of technical ability, he's certainly caught my eye as a good prospect. 

Sibley is ahead of Knight. If Sibley wasn't with the England U18s, he would most likely have been on the bench for the playoffs in place of Knight (Sibley has played a lot more for the U23s this season)

Quote

I could really go through the entire academy when it's got so many players doing well: Lowe & Thomas are coming off very productive loan spells. I expect they will be knocking on the door for first-team football here next season. 

In all honesty, take your pick from the following: Max Lowe, Luke Thomas, Henrich Ravas, Calum Macdonald, Max Bird, Jayden Mitchell-Lawson, Louie Sibley, Cameron Cresswell, Morgan Whittaker, Kyle McAllister, Lee Buchanan, Jason Knight & Tyree Wilson. 

I think now would be a good chance to sit down with those players in particular, perhaps a couple more as I'm probably missing some, to tell them that if they work their balls off in the summer then they will get a chance in the preseason games to earn their place in the squad. I know some are still on the young side, but around 18-19 which some of them are then they should be banging the door down if they're good enough. 

 

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I have complete trust that anyone good enough for the first team will make it.

Thanks for responses everyone, really good reading.

Tyree Wilson, what sort of player is he? He’s quite young so I guess he’s an extra year off being in the first team.

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55 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Joined summer '16 and scored 4 in 26 games for the U18s from RB. Then by November the following season he was already promoted to the U23s. For the U18s he scored 3 and assisted 2 in his 11 games. He also scored 2 in 7 U23 games. The promise was certainly there hence why he was training with the first team at the end of last season and earned himself a spot on the bench. He catapulted himself from the U18s to one of the best at U23 level in the space of months when he was still 17. It's unusual for someone to go out on loan at such an age. Reece James who is a year older than Bogle had a full season for the U23s before going on loan anywhere (to Wigan this season) Most players 18 or younger who go on loan tend to go to non-league level

I was going off Lampard's comments a few months back where he mentioned it was easy to keep Bogle because the interest to go out on loan wasn't there. Although, you're right that it was probably because of his age and not his ability. 

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1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

I was going off Lampard's comments a few months back where he mentioned it was easy to keep Bogle because the interest to go out on loan wasn't there. Although, you're right that it was probably because of his age and not his ability. 

I think age and other teams not knowing much about him go hand in hand. 7 U23 games wasn't enough for him to be noticed and/or trusted by another club to play the full season in a physically tough league.

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