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Arsene Titman

Tom Lawrence

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13 minutes ago, Davide said:

Maybe he should be supported a bit more and he will become a better player. 

What a ridiculous comment!  How dare you suggest such a supportive and moderate approach? 🙄

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Don't think Lawrence is a bad player, just hasn't met most people's expectations,after his cracking goal scoring season at Ipswich.And he bloody frustrates me with his final ball,loading possession and inconsistencies. He definitely has ability and hopefully Frank and Jodie will get the best out of him this season.

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I thought about this today and Lawrence didnt really have a good season.... however, he obviously has ability and Frank seems to rate him.

I know his mother passed away recently and maybe she hasnt been well for a while...

Would maybe explain why he wasnt quite hitting the levels we expect.

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Wasn’t sure if I should put this here or in a more recent thread. But I am baffled at the way some folks are on about Tom. 

You can argue whether or not he will be able to put it all together. You can argue it may or may not be beneficial to give someone else a starting bid on the wing. But how can any of us(who have watched more then just a handful of games) not agree that Lawrence is the most creative player on the team? 

As far as I can tell (from the other threads). The main concern is that he seems to disappear at times. Is that really a shock? If he does put it all together and proves a complete winger match after match...he’s not a Derby County player...he’s starting on a Champions League team worth 50 mill.  

The gamble with him has always been about his consistency.  I am very much willing to gamble that he can put it together still. Because the outcome for Derby will be Heads and Shoulders above what any other current player could provide. 

coyr

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I really hope you are correct Hanny .

We need a productive consistent wide man although if CM is back in the frame we may play Marriott behind him with the muscle of waggy and bennett as the wide forwards ...leaving no place for Tom .

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1 hour ago, Hanny said:

Wasn’t sure if I should put this here or in a more recent thread. But I am baffled at the way some folks are on about Tom. 

You can argue whether or not he will be able to put it all together. You can argue it may or may not be beneficial to give someone else a starting bid on the wing. But how can any of us(who have watched more then just a handful of games) not agree that Lawrence is the most creative player on the team? 

As far as I can tell (from the other threads). The main concern is that he seems to disappear at times. Is that really a shock? If he does put it all together and proves a complete winger match after match...he’s not a Derby County player...he’s starting on a Champions League team worth 50 mill.  

The gamble with him has always been about his consistency.  I am very much willing to gamble that he can put it together still. Because the outcome for Derby will be Heads and Shoulders above what any other current player could provide. 

coyr

I've always said with Lawrence, whilst he is running at opposition defences like a mad man, he creates space for other players.

Some people just dont see what a player does as a whole, they look at goal and assist columns, too many FIFA experts these days.

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1 hour ago, Hanny said:

Wasn’t sure if I should put this here or in a more recent thread. But I am baffled at the way some folks are on about Tom. 

You can argue whether or not he will be able to put it all together. You can argue it may or may not be beneficial to give someone else a starting bid on the wing. But how can any of us(who have watched more then just a handful of games) not agree that Lawrence is the most creative player on the team? 

As far as I can tell (from the other threads). The main concern is that he seems to disappear at times. Is that really a shock? If he does put it all together and proves a complete winger match after match...he’s not a Derby County player...he’s starting on a Champions League team worth 50 mill.  

The gamble with him has always been about his consistency.  I am very much willing to gamble that he can put it together still. Because the outcome for Derby will be Heads and Shoulders above what any other current player could provide. 

coyr

Whilst I admire (and don't disagree with) your backing of one of our players, can you go back and read the highlighted bits...

Are you saying you are willing to gamble that "he can put it together", ergo by your reckoning, he can become a £50m player for a Champions League team?  

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1 hour ago, Hanny said:

Wasn’t sure if I should put this here or in a more recent thread. But I am baffled at the way some folks are on about Tom. 

You can argue whether or not he will be able to put it all together. You can argue it may or may not be beneficial to give someone else a starting bid on the wing. But how can any of us(who have watched more then just a handful of games) not agree that Lawrence is the most creative player on the team? 

As far as I can tell (from the other threads). The main concern is that he seems to disappear at times. Is that really a shock? If he does put it all together and proves a complete winger match after match...he’s not a Derby County player...he’s starting on a Champions League team worth 50 mill.  

The gamble with him has always been about his consistency.  I am very much willing to gamble that he can put it together still. Because the outcome for Derby will be Heads and Shoulders above what any other current player could provide. 

coyr

I don't think Lawrence is bad but we did pay around 6 million for him right? I think it's reasonable to expect more from his this season which he may well provide as he was very good in the final part of last season 

It's similar to Bradley Johnson.. He was never bad but we paid 6 million for him so I think it's reasonable to hold him to a higher standard than, say, Mason Bennett 

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While I rate Lawrence, there is no denying that his overall output for us has been underwhelming. In 83 appearances for the club he has scored 13 goals. For what we spent on him & the hype that came with him, I think we all expected more.

On his day, he is a threat and no doubt can produce moments of magic, however he is far too inconsistent to command that sort of transfer fee IMO. He came in to replace Tom Ince and hasn't produced anywhere near the quality of performances that Ince did for the club.

Personally, I hope he kicks on with us, as there is talent without a doubt, however if we got an offer of more than what we paid for him, I would happily sell if that money was able to be reinvested in the squad.

I genuinely believe we have to sell a player for a significant fee this summer and if it came down to Bogle or Lawrence then, I would hope we keep Bogle as he is a much more important player for us.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Whilst I admire (and don't disagree with) your backing of one of our players, can you go back and read the highlighted bits...

Are you saying you are willing to gamble that "he can put it together", ergo by your reckoning, he can become a £50m player for a Champions League team?  

Fair ask. As my typing is a bit confusing there.  In short- yes (and probably not) 🙂

I think that any mid 20's winger who puts together consistent performances of creativity (the level which we've seen snippets so far from Lawrence), could be classed as a 50mill Champions quality Winger.

Do I think he will reach that level? More than likely he will not. But to have someone on your team with even a chance of showing that type of quality; you give them as much game time as able.

In reality, I hope he develops a bit more, becomes a double digit assist, high single digit scorer (for the folks that think those are the only numbers that matter), and settles in as a decent PL quality winger. 

For the record, I think stats are often misleading. People want to point and see "better or worse". When in reality its all manner of grey area, constant chaos, and generally un-quantifiable reasons that lead to a bad/good/quality player. Which is why we can even have debates on players we like or dislike. I believe a players ability/value is much more than a stat line. 

I feel Lawrence can produce wonderful football, I just hope he can pull together a few great moments and help the squad along the way.

coyr

Edited by Hanny

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48 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I've always said with Lawrence, whilst he is running at opposition defences like a mad man, he creates space for other players.

Some people just dont see what a player does as a whole, they look at goal and assist columns, too many FIFA experts these days.

Not disagreeing and I do believe Tom can be a great player however, creating space for others is only any good if the player in possession finds them with a pass. Does Tom do that often enough? I'm not sure.

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Name a consistent winger in this league: you'll struggle to.

He's in a position where you're almost destined to either disappear or steal the show. He's capable of both.

He does need to do more to justify that pricetag, but I love watching him play and always feel more confident that we'll win when he's on the field.

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I think you have to realise that Frank nursed him a bit - and got him going - motivated while he had his personal problems etc  - and tried to get best out of him

but he will never be of the level of the three loanees last year (Mount signed his big 5 yr contract at Chelsea today) and Tomori and Wilson (worth £50million) are a deck above him.

Tom is miles off these 3 

he needs to work hard and improve his game technically. - and not go missing in games

We need you Tom!!

 

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14 minutes ago, irobinson said:

I think you have to realise that Frank nursed him a bit - and got him going - motivated while he had his personal problems etc  - and tried to get best out of him

but he will never be of the level of the three loanees last year (Mount signed his big 5 yr contract at Chelsea today) and Tomori and Wilson (worth £50million) are a deck above him.

Tom is miles off these 3 

he needs to work hard and improve his game technically. - and not go missing in games

We need you Tom!!

 

Wilson DEFINITELY isn't worth £50m

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1 hour ago, Ramdale said:

While I rate Lawrence, there is no denying that his overall output for us has been underwhelming. In 83 appearances for the club he has scored 13 goals. For what we spent on him & the hype that came with him, I think we all expected more.

On his day, he is a threat and no doubt can produce moments of magic, however he is far too inconsistent to command that sort of transfer fee IMO. He came in to replace Tom Ince and hasn't produced anywhere near the quality of performances that Ince did for the club.

Personally, I hope he kicks on with us, as there is talent without a doubt, however if we got an offer of more than what we paid for him, I would happily sell if that money was able to be reinvested in the squad.

I genuinely believe we have to sell a player for a significant fee this summer and if it came down to Bogle or Lawrence then, I would hope we keep Bogle as he is a much more important player for us.

I see your point, but we wouldn't get anywhere near as much for Lawrence as we would for Bogle. So probably not a fair comparison. 

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2 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

Whilst I admire (and don't disagree with) your backing of one of our players, can you go back and read the highlighted bits...

Are you saying you are willing to gamble that "he can put it together", ergo by your reckoning, he can become a £50m player for a Champions League team?  

I think he is saying (and has a point) that Lawrence on his day can change a game more than many other championship players. If “his day” was every day then he might well be playing in a different league. 

Its the conundrum of the gamble. Sometimes it comes off. I like him .. but Lordy Lordy can he frustrate you at times ! 

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The frustration is if he put the good bits together more often he'd be Tom Ince level of terrifying championship defences. He has the ability, he actually works reasonably hard, just vision and decision making.

I think he can do it, we all hope he does do it but yes, something about the expectations when we sign him does seem to weigh on his shoulders.

 

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