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7 hours ago, deanoakaram4life said:

Lampard got it wrong today, it's alright fluttering your eyelids at the Chelsea job but you have to learn your trade. It took Brian Clough 3 years before he managed in the old first division. Starting Mason Bennett up front and not Marriott was suicide. All the best to Villa, let's start again with a fresh youthful squad next year. Up the Fuc#ing Rams! 

I blame myself. I didn’t have quite enough pints at Crock of Gold so Derby didn’t push one across in the first 45. 

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We were equally ineffective until the substitution of Marriott for Holmes at Leeds. Whether that was an injury or a master stroke I don’t know. Of course it took goalkeeping as poor as Kelle’s mistake yesterday to get us back in it. 

I disagreed with the starting line up, especially playing Tom and BJ together, but could understand his thinking. However the changes should have been made at half time.  

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5 hours ago, Xlor said:

Poor everything more like. Villa had a better ticket system, better fans, better players, better tactics, better management. Hell, they even had better flags. They get cotton/nylon flags with the crest and villa wrote on them, we got a stick with a plaggy bag sellotaped on. Got what we deserved. Nothing. I did enjoy a game of frisby in the middle of the M1 for 2 hours though ?

I have to say this post makes me feel slightly better strangely. 

When we scored it was like we had scored the winner in my block (105), people going absolutely crazy. I know emotions run high but I thought ‘hang on you do know we’re still 2-1 down’  

To me I think some sections were just happy to be at Wembley, some where out on a day trip (didn’t know the difference between Waghorn and Wilson) and others were not interested at all and played with there phones for 2 hours.

Sadly Elland Road was our final but I applaud everyone who made the trip for that 2nd leg ?

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1 hour ago, Remy the hare said:

I have to say this post makes me feel slightly better strangely. 

When we scored it was like we had scored the winner in my block (105), people going absolutely crazy. I know emotions run high but I thought ‘hang on you do know we’re still 2-1 down’  

To me I think some sections were just happy to be at Wembley, some where out on a day trip (didn’t know the difference between Waghorn and Wilson) and others were not interested at all and played with there phones for 2 hours.

Sadly Elland Road was our final but I applaud everyone who made the trip for that 2nd leg ?

We could not afford to put out a starting 11 that surrendered the midfield to a very talented and balanced  villa midfield to do that we had to play one up front and use hudds who is not the player he was and Jono filling roles that aren’t really him ,we lost width and energy with the loss of Malone and the truth is our passing wasn’t on it yesterday and that’s why we were less of a threat going forward , you can blame lampard all you want but truth is there really wasn’t that much in but I’m willing to bet lampard would have won that game had he had villa squad to pick from rather than ours and that not a pop at our players just an honest comment that they have a bit more quality and far more depth to choose from ,

the good thing for me from all this is that I’ve become a season ticket holder again and am looking forward to it no matter what division we are in or who’s manager , my only fear is I pray I’m not sat next to anybody who’s like some of the negative posters who populate the forum when we lose and offer nothing but negative hindsight blame at whichever target wanders into their sights

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I will wade into this debate . 

As much as you can blame Roos for that mistake 

You have to blame also Lampard for the team selection at the start even more, it resulted into negative team energy no positivity at all .

We should have come out GOING FOR IT ...we had nothing to lose after all we were below villa and losing already 7-0 on aggregate no one expected us to win ! .

The first half was terrible it never looked like a team that wanted to go up , more like a team that didn't want to get embarressed by a big losing scoreline……….sorry hugely disappointed in Lampard with this one , hope he has learned a massive lesson .

Villa were deffo there for the taking a HUGE MISSED opportunity .

Also what the hell is it with us first Keogh now Roos , jesus everytime it matters we have to score 2 to nullify someone making a mistake.

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Also you have to ask serious questions of why Marriott has NOT been playing .

Yes I know he is idle in training but anyone with half a brain can see how natural goal scorer he is .

Would have loved to see how Frank Lampard would have managed John Robertson ( for those old enough to remember him )if Marriott is idle .

Everytime I have seen Marriott he runs after everything , if he is idle in training but does it in the match so what ? .

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33 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

Also you have to ask serious questions of why Marriott has NOT been playing .

Yes I know he is idle in training but anyone with half a brain can see how natural goal scorer he is .

Would have loved to see how Frank Lampard would have managed John Robertson ( for those old enough to remember him )if Marriott is idle .

Everytime I have seen Marriott he runs after everything , if he is idle in training but does it in the match so what ? .

I don’t know why we’ve all decided that Lampard and Marriott have fallen out and not linked his being out of the starting XI with the fact he’s not played 90 minutes since his injury/stomach troubles.

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4 hours ago, Rambam said:

We were equally ineffective until the substitution of Marriott for Holmes at Leeds. Whether that was an injury or a master stroke I don’t know. Of course it took goalkeeping as poor as Kelle’s mistake yesterday to get us back in it. 

I disagreed with the starting line up, especially playing Tom and BJ together, but could understand his thinking. However the changes should have been made at half time.  

The change at Leeds was an enforced one due to Holmes injury so no master stroke I’m afraid 

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My final analysis :- 

a) .. we were beaten by two unfortunate goals. Roos made a bad mistake and the other goal was a brave header under pressure.

b) .. but the game was lost before it started with three appalling selection errors by manager Frank Lampard ..

    (i) .. he hasn’t been able to make up his mind between Johnson and Huddlestone for the defensive midfield position for some time, so he picks BOTH OF THEM ! A ridiculously negative and overly defensive decision in a match where we should have been on the front foot. We were never going to break Villa down by sitting back. Rowett tried that last year against Fulham in the SemiFinal, and was rightly lambasted and exposed as inadequate for it. 

    (ii) .. Holmes should have played instead of one of them, a true creative force going forward, and particularly on a day that Mason Mount wasn’t at his best.

    (iii) .. selecting Bennett and Lawrence ahead of Marriott and Waghorn exposes Lampard as truly clueless in his assessment of player qualities. He obviously has far too high an opinion of Bennett’s abilities, a player who will never be a regular Championship player. And as for Lawrence, well, he has been a disappointment all season, a waste of big money for this club, contributing maybe one game in five this season. It was hailed as a master stroke in bringing Marriott on against Leeds, but he was only forced into it by the injury to Holmes, another stupid decision not to start Marriott, his reputation saved only by accident ! 

As for his chances of success at Chelsea .. if he makes such schoolboy errors of judgement at Championship level, he will be crucified by Abramovic at Chelsea ! 

I don’t really want another management change at Derby, but he has exposed himself as absolutely clueless in consistently choosing the wrong players at the wrong times, and yesterday was the ‘king’s new clothes’ moment when Saint Frank was exposed for what he is, yet another famous footballer without the right credentials to succeed at the top level. Maybe Jody Morris could do better on his own .. 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

Also you have to ask serious questions of why Marriott has NOT been playing .

Yes I know he is idle in training but anyone with half a brain can see how natural goal scorer he is .

Would have loved to see how Frank Lampard would have managed John Robertson ( for those old enough to remember him )if Marriott is idle .

Everytime I have seen Marriott he runs after everything , if he is idle in training but does it in the match so what ? .

So what? So what if he can’t do it for 90 mins ? So what if he is nowhere near as effective against teams just as fresh as him at the start of a game ? 

Pits called being fit and is a must in today’s game ,to compare with players from an era where players drank like fish ,smoked fags ,eat poorly and trained far less is just plain daft ,

i would have put Marriott on from the start if it was me but if and it’s just an if Marriott doesn’t put it in in training I’m happy o get rid because I don’t wan to go back to the days of late/post Mac where places in the team weren’t earned by hard work plus talent with some expecting automatic selection 

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8 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

My final analysis :- 

a) .. we were beaten by two unfortunate goals. Roos made a bad mistake and the other goal was a brave header under pressure.

b) .. but the game was lost before it started with three appalling selection errors by manager Frank Lampard ..

    (i) .. he hasn’t been able to make up his mind between Johnson and Huddlestone for the defensive midfield position for some time, so he picks BOTH OF THEM ! A ridiculously negative and overly defensive decision in a match where we should have been on the front foot. We were never going to break Villa down by sitting back. Rowett tried that last year against Fulham in the SemiFinal, and was rightly lambasted and exposed as inadequate for it. 

    (ii) .. Holmes should have played instead of one of them, a true creative force going forward, and particularly on a day that Mason Mount wasn’t at his best.

    (iii) .. selecting Bennett and Lawrence ahead of Marriott and Waghorn exposes Lampard as truly clueless in his assessment of player qualities. He obviously has far too high an opinion of Bennett’s abilities, a player who will never be a regular Championship player. And as for Lawrence, well, he has been a disappointment all season, a waste of big money for this club, contributing maybe one game in five this season. It was hailed as a master stroke in bringing Marriott on against Leeds, but he was only forced into it by the injury to Holmes, another stupid decision not to start Marriott, his reputation saved only by accident ! 

As for his chances of success at Chelsea .. if he makes such schoolboy errors of judgement at Championship level, he will be crucified by Abramovic at Chelsea ! 

I don’t really want another management change at Derby, but he has exposed himself as absolutely clueless in consistently choosing the wrong players at the wrong times, and yesterday was the ‘king’s new clothes’ moment when Saint Frank was exposed for what he is, yet another famous footballer without the right credentials to succeed at the top level. Maybe Jody Morris could do better on his own .. 

 

 

 

 

Wum plain and simple 

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Heard many cries for it should've been Marriott and Waghorn... but I can't agree with that. Yes it changed the game, but that's what it was designed to do against a team who only needed to defend and counter at that point. Start like that, and the affect isn't the same... football is not played in a vacuum in that manner.

I will criticise Lampard for the Huddlestone selection, however. Admittedly, options were limited with Holmes unavailable but Wilson central with Bennett wide and Waghorn or Marriott up top would have been the way to go in my opinion. Balance isn't quite right with Johnson alongside Huddlestone.

Lampard made an error, but he was also a genius for getting us there - what a difference a week makes. Some posters here need to take a long, hard look at theirselves, their fickle nature and confirmation bias.

He will make mistakes, but he has to learn from them, and that's all you really can ask for. This summer will be an exciting/interesting one with recruitment, so buckle up for it. All plaudits go to Lampard for fostering a team bond like I've never witnessed previously, and if he can do that again with a vastly different group of all his own choosing then we have another chance next season.

Finally, all I'll say is what is done is done. Hindsight is wonderful and if Lampard had done this or that, or a player had done this or that then it would have been different. No use dwelling, learn from mistakes and take the positives out of what was such an unexpectedly fun season and we go again next year.

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9 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

My final analysis :- 

a) .. we were beaten by two unfortunate goals. Roos made a bad mistake and the other goal was a brave header under pressure.

b) .. but the game was lost before it started with three appalling selection errors by manager Frank Lampard ..

    (i) .. he hasn’t been able to make up his mind between Johnson and Huddlestone for the defensive midfield position for some time, so he picks BOTH OF THEM ! A ridiculously negative and overly defensive decision in a match where we should have been on the front foot. We were never going to break Villa down by sitting back. Rowett tried that last year against Fulham in the SemiFinal, and was rightly lambasted and exposed as inadequate for it. 

    (ii) .. Holmes should have played instead of one of them, a true creative force going forward, and particularly on a day that Mason Mount wasn’t at his best.

    (iii) .. selecting Bennett and Lawrence ahead of Marriott and Waghorn exposes Lampard as truly clueless in his assessment of player qualities. He obviously has far too high an opinion of Bennett’s abilities, a player who will never be a regular Championship player. And as for Lawrence, well, he has been a disappointment all season, a waste of big money for this club, contributing maybe one game in five this season. It was hailed as a master stroke in bringing Marriott on against Leeds, but he was only forced into it by the injury to Holmes, another stupid decision not to start Marriott, his reputation saved only by accident ! 

As for his chances of success at Chelsea .. if he makes such schoolboy errors of judgement at Championship level, he will be crucified by Abramovic at Chelsea ! 

I don’t really want another management change at Derby, but he has exposed himself as absolutely clueless in consistently choosing the wrong players at the wrong times, and yesterday was the ‘king’s new clothes’ moment when Saint Frank was exposed for what he is, yet another famous footballer without the right credentials to succeed at the top level. Maybe Jody Morris could do better on his own .. 

 

 

 

 

Now just wait for the clamour of people to tell you that you are wrong, that the team selection didn’t lose us the game the two errors did.

How could you know better than Frank? Blah blah blah. I’ve been crucified for saying similar to you. 

I do believe Holmes was injured at Leeds and deemed not fit enough to take part so that clears that one up. 

Criminal to play Bennett ahead of Marriott or Waghorn, totally ineffective.

So in the main I’m in agreement with you, good luck with the do gooders coming your way 

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I don’t think Waghorn was fully match fit to start. He was touch and go. I don’t think Marriott has got many games recently that may be down to FL but Bennett would challenge up front and give the Villa defenders something to think about. He should have made the substitutions earlier. I think by the time Waghorn and Marriott were on the game was lost. 

In all seriousness does anyone think we were good enough to go up?

We have shown signs of being a good team West Brom away cup games v prem teams Leeds away in the play offs. We also haven’t turned up v Leeds in the league and too many times to Bolton, Rotherham, Millwall. 

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2 minutes ago, Gritters said:

I don’t think Waghorn was fully match fit to start. He was touch and go. I don’t think Marriott has got many games recently that may be down to FL but Bennett would challenge up front and give the Villa defenders something to think about. He should have made the substitutions earlier. I think by the time Waghorn and Marriott were on the game was lost. 

In all seriousness does anyone think we were good enough to go up?

We have shown signs of being a good team West Brom away cup games v prem teams Leeds away in the play offs. We also haven’t turned up v Leeds in the league and too many times to Bolton, Rotherham, Millwall. 

Wow , Bennett would challenge up front and give the Villa defenders something to think about. Well he managed so well that Mings walked through most of that game, this love in with Bennett is slightly embarrassing 

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8 minutes ago, Gritters said:

I don’t think Waghorn was fully match fit to start. He was touch and go. I don’t think Marriott has got many games recently that may be down to FL but Bennett would challenge up front and give the Villa defenders something to think about. He should have made the substitutions earlier. I think by the time Waghorn and Marriott were on the game was lost. 

In all seriousness does anyone think we were good enough to go up?

We have shown signs of being a good team West Brom away cup games v prem teams Leeds away in the play offs. We also haven’t turned up v Leeds in the league and too many times to Bolton, Rotherham, Millwall. 

Good points. Not that it matters but it would be interesting to hear what proportion of successful coaches would start with Bennett over Marriott or Waghorn (or both) in a game of such importance. A very small proportion, would be my guess.  As I say, it matters not now. 

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25 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

My final analysis :- 

a) .. we were beaten by two unfortunate goals. Roos made a bad mistake and the other goal was a brave header under pressure.

b) .. but the game was lost before it started with three appalling selection errors by manager Frank Lampard ..

    (i) .. he hasn’t been able to make up his mind between Johnson and Huddlestone for the defensive midfield position for some time, so he picks BOTH OF THEM ! A ridiculously negative and overly defensive decision in a match where we should have been on the front foot. We were never going to break Villa down by sitting back. Rowett tried that last year against Fulham in the SemiFinal, and was rightly lambasted and exposed as inadequate for it. 

    (ii) .. Holmes should have played instead of one of them, a true creative force going forward, and particularly on a day that Mason Mount wasn’t at his best.

    (iii) .. selecting Bennett and Lawrence ahead of Marriott and Waghorn exposes Lampard as truly clueless in his assessment of player qualities. He obviously has far too high an opinion of Bennett’s abilities, a player who will never be a regular Championship player. And as for Lawrence, well, he has been a disappointment all season, a waste of big money for this club, contributing maybe one game in five this season. It was hailed as a master stroke in bringing Marriott on against Leeds, but he was only forced into it by the injury to Holmes, another stupid decision not to start Marriott, his reputation saved only by accident ! 

As for his chances of success at Chelsea .. if he makes such schoolboy errors of judgement at Championship level, he will be crucified by Abramovic at Chelsea ! 

I don’t really want another management change at Derby, but he has exposed himself as absolutely clueless in consistently choosing the wrong players at the wrong times, and yesterday was the ‘king’s new clothes’ moment when Saint Frank was exposed for what he is, yet another famous footballer without the right credentials to succeed at the top level. Maybe Jody Morris could do better on his own .. 

 

 

 

 

Holmes was injured wasn’t he?

 

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1 minute ago, Shaftesbury st said:

Wow , Bennett would challenge up front and give the Villa defenders something to think about. Well he managed so well that Mings walked through most of that game, this love in with Bennett is slightly embarrassing 

I  am only trying to second guess FLs thoughts. I’m not a Bennett fan. 

My heart sank when I saw the line up yesterday.

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1 minute ago, DCFC Ram said:

Good points. Not that it matters but it would be interesting to hear what proportion of successful coaches would start with Bennett over Marriott or Waghorn (or both) in a game of such importance. A very small proportion, would be my guess.  As I say, it matters not now. 

At least one of those two wasn’t fit enough to play the whole game.

So frustrating that so many of us are taking out our frustration on the team selection without considering any factor other than Lampard on why it was what it was.

Just seen a post blaming Lampard for not playing an unavailable player.

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10 hours ago, Alpha said:

I would have felt more confident with Marriott in as he only really needs a sniff and he gambles on everything

Waghorn I expected to be on the bench.

You have to say that old cliche "goals change games". 

Villa are going to take less risks when 1-0 up. They will hold shape and Derby will abandon it a bit more. Now at 0-0 I didn't really see how Marriott could help. It was lack of width, especially on the left that looked an issue. Grealish was getting deeper and it was only really El Ghazi solo runs that worried me. 

So the starting 11 did alright imo

The 2nd goal did even more to change the game and that put Villa in such a counter attacking mind that our forwards were always going to get more of a look in.

I would have liked to see Marriott start but I wouldn't dare say that the game was lost on that 1 decision

Defensively yes, but I don't think we looked like scoring at any point. We didn't carry the offensive threat and that's why the poacher is so important. With no width on the left, a crammed centre of the pitch, I was desperate for a striker to run in behind. I think Mason ran the channel once from memory.

Even on the right where Bogle offered good width, his constant desire to take everyone on before crossing was getting frustrating. Whip the ball in early (ala West Brom goal for Waghorn).

So I can't vouch for the starting 11 doing alright, and mistakes or not, the starting 11 contributed to a 2-0 deficit by the time the better players (Marriott and Wags) came on.

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