Mckram Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Just wondering if any of you guys have an electric car and could recommmend? Been looking at the new Tesla Model 3 coming out next month, it’s actually a lot cheaper than most electric cars and obviously you save a lot on fuel each month. I just hate spending money on things that depreciate so fast...but also don’t want to get a crap one that needs charging every 80 miles! Anybody got a good inbetween at a reasonable price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 I won't recommend which one you should buy, but I'd steer clear of the new Tesla for a couple of years. I'm currently in this industry, and know what issues they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I would argue Teslas hold their value better than any car with an internal combustion engine. Here's a link: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/12/tesla-model-s-tesla-model-x-hold-their-value-better-than-gasmobile-competitors/ Partly it's just they're so desirable but also because of the lack of moving parts (not having an engine) so an electric vehicle simply doesn't age in the same way. Given the software updates always improving it, you can argue it gets better over time. My Model 3 reservation is now configurable but sadly the Sagan bank account can't afford it right now. Working on it. But if I had the money I'd definitely spend it on the Model 3 as it's so revolutionary and my understanding is that they solved a lot of the issues that the X and S had as they get better at building cars. You're not simply buying an electric car - you're also paying for autonomy. I've driven from London to Derby hardly having to touch the steering wheel or pedals and it gets better al the time. It's the coupling of those twin strands that makes it a decade ahead of the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 8 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: I won't recommend which one you should buy, but I'd steer clear of the new Tesla for a couple of years. I'm currently in this industry, and know what issues they have. So which one would you buy, you know which one not to buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 8 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: I won't recommend which one you should buy, but I'd steer clear of the new Tesla for a couple of years. I'm currently in this industry, and know what issues they have. Care to expand a little? Some of the ones I have heard, not saying I agree with them but the rumour mill: That they are running out of cash / will go bust / Elon is a bit mad: Just general concerns of over the stability of the future of the company. Producion Issues: About eighteen months to two years to get a car delivered. Likely to be a lemon even when it arrives. To answer the OP - I've been driving a plug in hybrid for about five years now. It gives me about 30 miles of charge and then has a small petrol engine that kicks in. Basically, if you are driving short distances it's a dream, if you need to do a long journey the engine is a bit horrible - it can cruise at 85mph but just feels like it wasn't built to. That said, I wanted to have a car with an unlimited range as I do occassionally need to do a long trip. Couple of thoughts. What is your driving likely to be? If you are doing a short commute (c.40 miles) then a plug in hybrid will do the job and will be the cheapest option. Looking at the maths on mine it's not a question of it holding it's value it's actually that I get my money back. Not overnight but I'm saving about £2k of petrol a year so run this thing for six years (currently at four) and I've more or less actually broken even. Been a long time since you can do that with a car. Model 3: - Remember you won't have access for free to the Tesla charging network so if you are doing motorway driving build that cost into your model. The Tesla charging network is wide but do make sure you have some on the most popular routes you might take over your range. As above, think on the saving. Just to say, you wil spend about 10p a mile on petrol for a 50 mpg car. If a Tesla Model 3 is going to cost you about £33k, six years of 20k miles a year is actually only to get you £12k back on that so it's still an investment. - It is cool, a bit like buying a smarthpone on wheels in that you get software updates, there are things in the car that they just haven't decided how to use (two cameras for example). - Think whether you need the large battery version. For me, I'm OK with the 220 miles version though one of my worries is whether that means actual 220 or it's a bit like petrol cars that claim mpg that are unrealistic in normal driving. - Yes, Tesla's do hold their value up to a point but the batteries only have a seven year warranty. Once, like all batteries, they stop holding a charge you've got two options - pay a fortune to have them replaced or admit your car is now worthless. Anyway, in the end I decided not to but mainly because my driving requirements have changed so I won't be doing more than local driving going forward so decided I'm OK in my old car. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 The Jaguar i-Pace is supposed to be the best electric car out there....but it does start at £60 odd grand. Mrs Wolfie has had a Hybrid Toyota CH-R for nearly a year now and we really like that. Economical, not super quick but it does handle like a sports car, so you can have some fun with it. Always satisfying when you see it switch into electric mode (when my foot isn't on the floor!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Boycie said: So which one would you buy, you know which one not to buy? Only the Japanese are releasing cars ready for release. All the others are releasing uncalibrated software that’s not fully debugged. Of the premium brands, the Jaguar iPace is the safest and best performing that can be practically tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I feel this is a good summary of the Jag vs Model 3 or Model X: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-model-x-jaguar-i-pace-compared-2019-2?r=US&IR=T#verdict-for-me-the-best-of-the-three-is-the-model-3-but-it-cant-be-all-things-to-all-people-30 tl;dr The Jag is finished better and drives better, but is ultimately old-fashioned. Because the Model 3 has autonomy and the Tesla supercharging network (albeit paid for) it's the most forward-thinking but it's minimalist and different. Of course the Nissan Leaf is a more basic, cheaper and laudable electric option loved by its owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mckram Posted May 24, 2019 Author Share Posted May 24, 2019 Thanks for the info guys. I’d be doing roughly 100 miles a day, hence why I want a half decent one that can do it without any worry of running out! I don’t really fancy spending anything over 30-40k as I have a dog and children...so what’s the point of having a nice car! I might have a look in to a hybrid for a few years then and hopefully by then electric car technology will be more available/reliable and cheaper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Ought to know more about these really as renewables is a field in which I work and I can't say which would be the best option, but boy is that Jaguar iPace a handsome bit of kit! *leaves to see what he can find down the back of the sofa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, 86 points said: Ought to know more about these really as renewables is a field in which I work and I can't say which would be the best option, but boy is that Jaguar iPace a handsome bit of kit! *leaves to see what he can find down the back of the sofa... Seriously sexy piece of kit the Jaguar. Wow what performance The range thing is within a few years of being sorted but for me the infrastructure just isn’t there. Pan earlier post talked about checking to see if charging was available on your regular routes. That’s primitive. Fuel is available on every major route. You are never more than 25 miles from a 5 minute fill up that gives you 400 miles range. I would love an electric car. Silent, rapid, linear power and torque, but we aren’t there yet ... We are at the ni cad power tool stage. It works, it’s clever, the concept is the future but until I can recharge in 10 minutes on every street corner and don’t have to think about whether or not to put the a/c or when my battery won’t hold a charge I face throwing the lot away, then I’m out. Solve the ubiquity and abusability and i’m Onboard with brass knobs on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 15 hours ago, jono said: Seriously sexy piece of kit the Jaguar. Wow what performance The range thing is within a few years of being sorted but for me the infrastructure just isn’t there. Pan earlier post talked about checking to see if charging was available on your regular routes. That’s primitive. Fuel is available on every major route. You are never more than 25 miles from a 5 minute fill up that gives you 400 miles range. I would love an electric car. Silent, rapid, linear power and torque, but we aren’t there yet ... We are at the ni cad power tool stage. It works, it’s clever, the concept is the future but until I can recharge in 10 minutes on every street corner and don’t have to think about whether or not to put the a/c or when my battery won’t hold a charge I face throwing the lot away, then I’m out. Solve the ubiquity and abusability and i’m Onboard with brass knobs on. All fair and sensible comment Jono. As I mentioned, I do some work in the renewables field (on the commercial side not technical, I hasten to add) so I have a rudimentary grasp on battery technologies. Outside of the West, lead acid batteries are still the most used option for off-grid applications (the primary field in which I have worked), basically the same as those used in standard road cars. Because they are filthy things, require maintenance and are prone to explode in high temperatures (I kid you not!), I've deployed renewably powered micro-grids in sub-Saharan Africa using LiFePO 4 (lthium iron phosphate) instead which is something of a step forward as stability, efficiency, energy density, depth of discharge, charge rates and life-cycle are all significantly improved, the only real downside being the cost - lead acid and AGM batteries are still way cheaper on a £/KWh basis. Other factors I'd look at for any form of battery storage include the green credentials of the respective offerings. Lithium based offerings are way more environmentally friendly when it comes to end-of-life disposal and critically, for the car industry at least, they are far more compact than lead acid equivalents. All this sounds great (and I reiterate that my realms of knowledge are focused on micro-grids and certainly not the car industry) but I still await that quantum leap forward that would negate the charging concerns you refer to, all of which are completely valid in my eyes. Stuff like flywheel energy storage is certainly interesting but it's a long, long way from being commoditised and commercialised and whether such systems would be adaptable to the car industry is way beyond my level of technical understanding. So, for the time being, like yourself, I remain merely an interested observer, despite the awesome good looks of cars like the iPace and i8. And besides, I only found 2 squid in the sofa ? EDIT - Just as an afterthought, Mercedes have their own battery technologies and sell to folk like me who look at off-grid tech so it'll be interesting to see what they bring to the table in the coming years. An electrically powered S Class-type of vehicle might be a hugely attractive proposition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 @86 points .. really interesting post. ? I have only the sketchiest knowledge of battery technology but I am certain that they will crack the charging thing at some point in our lifetime. Someone once explained to me that the reason for the need for high voltage chargers ( which need 3 phase supply ) is because you in effect have to “push” the power in to the battery but some of the new materials ( not specifically graphene but nano materials ) will eventually make the “pushing” a quantum level easier. The minute fuel pumps become electricity pumps the everything changes. Wish I could afford an iPace now though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, jono said: @86 points .. really interesting post. ? I have only the sketchiest knowledge of battery technology but I am certain that they will crack the charging thing at some point in our lifetime. Someone once explained to me that the reason for the need for high voltage chargers ( which need 3 phase supply ) is because you in effect have to “push” the power in to the battery but some of the new materials ( not specifically graphene but nano materials ) will eventually make the “pushing” a quantum level easier. The minute fuel pumps become electricity pumps the everything changes. Wish I could afford an iPace now though ? Yep, infrastructure is absolutely key and rapid charging is a 'simpler' challenge to address than storage efficiencies for sure. In terms of availability, I think we are only a handful of years away from ubiquitous charging facilities so that iPace may remains the stuff of your dreams for a short while, but maybe not too much longer. Here's hoping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 Hydrogen fuel cell is the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimRam Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Once electric cars become the norm I assume the costs (tax) will increase as petrol/diesel is phased out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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