Danny Baker fired for racist tweet about Royal baby

[GboroRam]

49 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Really - what sort of examples are you talking? I mean for me society moving "so far to the left" would be - implementing communism

 

 

He means ditching Blair's vision of socialism, I reckon. Not implementing private investment in the NHS, refusing to agree with privatisation of key public services, that kind of thing. How that was ever considered left politics, I don't know. 

[maxjam]

24 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Really - what sort of examples are you talking? I mean for me society moving "so far to the left" would be - implementing communism

 

I was replying to @1of4 who said that the centre ground is moving more to the right making the far right look less extreme.  Two examples of how this is incorrect are Tommy Robinson and Carl Benjamin.  Neither are far-right (I'd ask you to watch any of Carl Benjamin, or Sargon of Akkad's video's and argue he's anything other than an edgy left leaning liberal) but both have been cast as far-right and de-platformed - thats hardly endorsing or normalising what they say.

Furthermore, aside from those two more extreme examples numerous studies have shown that social media bans far more right leaning conservatives than it does anyone else.  For example;

https://quillette.com/2019/02/12/it-isnt-your-imagination-twitter-treats-conservatives-more-harshly-than-liberals/

in addition to suppressing right leaning conservative voices, the left aren't seemingly held to the same standards.  Take Sarah Jeung for example, who has a history of posting racist tweets against white people, but gets a position on the New York Times;

https://heavy.com/news/2018/08/sarah-jeong/

or Kathy Griffin who is still on twitter despite posting an image holding a severed Trump or calling for the doxxing of the Covington kids. 

There are numerous examples of the social media giants being far more strict towards conservative than they are towards the left.

Tim Pool has done a great video explaining a set of data that shows how far the left has moved further left in recent years;

 

It is American data yes, but similar applies to the UK.  Firstly, social media is worldwide and secondly, just like the Democrats Labour have lurched to the left. When momentum, the driving force behind Corbyn say that Labour is no longer the party for Tony Blair it does raise an eyebrow. 

It is not a conspiracy theory to say that the hard left have control of Labour, the mainstream media and social media.  Until the culture of banning ideologies you don't want to hear and de-platforming individuals end, the left is only going to spiral further out of control.

[maxjam]

6 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

He means ditching Blair's vision of socialism, I reckon. Not implementing private investment in the NHS, refusing to agree with privatisation of key public services, that kind of thing. How that was ever considered left politics, I don't know. 

Blairs vision of socialism was pretty centrist compared to what momentum/labour are trying to push now. Politics is only one side of the coin though, the right and left have always brushed up against each other.  I'm more concerned about the media smearing, silencing and de-platforming reasonable arguments - its not healthy to stifle debate and will only result in more censorship and ideas being left to run riot unchallenged.

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 minute ago, maxjam said:

I was replying to @1of4 who said that the centre ground is moving more to the right making the far right look less extreme.  Two examples of how this is incorrect are Tommy Robinson and Carl Benjamin.  Neither are far-right (I'd ask you to watch any of Carl Benjamin, or Sargon of Akkad's video's and argue he's anything other than an edgy left leaning liberal) but both have been cast as far-right and de-platformed - thats hardly endorsing or normalising what they say.

Furthermore, aside from those two more extreme examples numerous studies have shown that social media bans far more right leaning conservatives than it does anyone else.  For example;

https://quillette.com/2019/02/12/it-isnt-your-imagination-twitter-treats-conservatives-more-harshly-than-liberals/

in addition to suppressing right leaning conservative voices, the left aren't seemingly held to the same standards.  Take Sarah Jeung for example, who has a history of posting racist tweets against white people, but gets a position on the New York Times;

https://heavy.com/news/2018/08/sarah-jeong/

or Kathy Griffin who is still on twitter despite posting an image holding a severed Trump or calling for the doxxing of the Covington kids. 

There are numerous examples of the social media giants being far more strict towards conservative than they are towards the left.

Tim Pool has done a great video explaining a set of data that shows how far the left has moved further left in recent years;

 

It is American data yes, but similar applies to the UK.  Firstly, social media is worldwide and secondly, just like the Democrats Labour have lurched to the left. When momentum, the driving force behind Corbyn say that Labour is no longer the party for Tony Blair it does raise an eyebrow. 

It is not a conspiracy theory to say that the hard left have control of Labour, the mainstream media and social media.  Until the culture of banning ideologies you don't want to hear and de-platforming individuals end, the left is only going to spiral further out of control.

Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Rupert Murdoch? Mark Zuckerberg? Google? Hardly at the vanguard of the revolution. I am really not sure what 'control of Labour' means. The Labour Party is, and has always been, a broad church of the left, driven by policy created at conference and more importantly, subject to the will of the electorate.

[Stive Pesley]

12 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I was replying to @1of4 who said that the centre ground is moving more to the right making the far right look less extreme.  Two examples of how this is incorrect are Tommy Robinson and Carl Benjamin.  Neither are far-right

Well let's agree to disagree - Tommy Robinson is a classic fascist - nothing liberal about him (unless you're a white British male I guess)

Carl Benjamin is just an idiot. He also seems to hate women quite badly for some reason.

It's a hard line to tread - sticking up for these people's rights to generally be awful people without making it look like you are a supporter of generally awful people

[maxjam]

48 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Well let's agree to disagree - Tommy Robinson is a classic fascist - nothing liberal about him (unless you're a white British male I guess)

Carl Benjamin is just an idiot. He also seems to hate women quite badly for some reason.

It's a hard line to tread - sticking up for these people's rights to generally be awful people without making it look like you are a supporter of generally awful people

We can debate their character flaws and ideologies at length, the point I was making however was that these people are routinely called out as far right in the media and have been widely deplatformed.  Thats hardly making the 'far right look less extremist' as @1of4 was arguing - it is in fact the opposite, its removing them from sight and making them appear worse than they really are.

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Rupert Murdoch? Mark Zuckerberg? Google? Hardly at the vanguard of the revolution. I am really not sure what 'control of Labour' means. The Labour Party is, and has always been, a broad church of the left, driven by policy created at conference and more importantly, subject to the will of the electorate.

If the Guardian are saying that Labour has taken a lurch to the left, you'd better believe they have lurched to the left!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/05/unite-momentum-dominate-labour-selections-candidates-key-marginals

I'd suggest to anyone that thinks I'm going slightly mad to do your own research and form your own opinions - look into Momentum and Labour and look into Social Media bias and censorship.  There is a wealth of reputable research showing clear and progressive bias.

[McRamFan]

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I'd suggest to anyone that thinks I'm going slightly mad to do your own research and form your own opinions - look into Momentum and Labour and look into Social Media bias and censorship.  There is a wealth of reputable research showing clear and progressive bias.

There is bias from both left and right.  You previously mentioned an article from Quillette, that is a hard right 'news' site, that dresses itself as just right of center.

All I can see is that the center ground is becoming a void.

[maxjam]

3 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

There is bias from both left and right.  You previously mentioned an article from Quillette, that is a hard right 'news' site, that dresses itself as just right of center.

All I can see is that the center ground is becoming a void.

There is absolutely bias from both sides and I'd agree that the centre ground is becoming void, especially online.  However the simple facts are that you are far more likely to censored or deplatformed if you are right of centre - which is skewing the argument and reinforcing the more extreme left that their opinions are the correct opinions.

[AndyinLiverpool]

7 minutes ago, maxjam said:

If the Guardian are saying that Labour has taken a lurch to the left, you'd better believe they have lurched to the left!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/05/unite-momentum-dominate-labour-selections-candidates-key-marginals

I'd suggest to anyone that thinks I'm going slightly mad to do your own research and form your own opinions - look into Momentum and Labour and look into Social Media bias and censorship.  There is a wealth of reputable research showing clear and progressive bias.

The guardian is about as paranoid about anything on the left that doesn't fit its ideal as it is about the right.

I'm not really sure what you mean by 'progressive' but in my mind it's not the same as 'hard left'. 'Progressive' is a pejorative term used by the right in the USA, which also has a somewhat skittish notion of what 'hard left' is.

And I will restate what I said earlier - Labour can select the candidates it wants but they still have to get elected. 

[maxjam]

7 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

And I will restate what I said earlier - Labour can select the candidates it wants but they still have to get elected. 

Which is probably why the Democrats can't get elected in the US even though they are up against Trump and why Labour aren't surging ahead in the polls here - the average person that isn't following the culture war just thinks everything going mad ?

The only Labour government in recent memory has been centre-left, when they go to far to the left its bad for everyone - bad for the majority of moderate Labour supporters and bad for the country as they don't form a credible threat to the government.