17/18 Financial Results

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, KCG said:

I'm not going to join in the pointless speculation. 

Ahhhh, go on then....

2 minutes ago, KCG said:

FFP does seem to be a bit of a mess though, and it's questionable whether it achieves very much.

 

[David]

4 minutes ago, eddie said:

Nearly every current Premier League club and a fair chunk of Championship clubs do not own their own grounds.

True. Here is a list of who owns the Premier League grounds. It is from 2017 so some may have changed and clubs have obviously been relegated.

https://www.propertyweek.com/news-analysis/who-owns-premier-league-stadiums/5090883.article

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

...  This is a game changer as it stands and gives me hope that we can have a good summer if we learn from past mistakes.  Interesting to see what we do with BJ now.

Well just have to suck it and see, I guess.

[Carnero]

55 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

If there's a moderate loss after shedding a lot of wages and selling Vydra then perhaps we were genuinely looking at a £65m loss last year.

Profit on sale of the stadium of £39m (sale of £80m less cost/value b/f of £41m).

Profit this year £14.6m.

Loss would have been £24.4m without stadium sale, not £65m.

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Wolfie20 said:

Anyone know exactly how long the "long-term lease" is for?

Very long.  In fact, really, really really long... like until we get promoted long!   

[Ghost of Clough]

24 minutes ago, Spanish said:

why is it a dodge?  it's club asset that has significant value, why shouldn't the club benefit from it?

 

one thing I'm note sure of, the ground cost 80m and Mel has paid 40m how has the other 40m been accounted for?

Valued in the accounts at £41m. Independently valued at £80m. Sold to Mel for £80m. £39m profit in the accounts 

[Carnero]

50 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

So perhaps this purchase is being made in two installments of £40m? 

Irrelevant, sale price is £80m for an asset b/f of £41m. All of the profit £39m is recognised in the year of sale, regardless of payment terms.

I highly doubt any money is actually changing hands, it'll all be a paper exercise.

[Carnero]

49 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I can't personally see how they'd allow us to use all "£80m" for FFP when it was supposedly valued in the accounts for £41m

£39m profit is used for FFP.

The £80m is the sale price of an asset that the accounts had previously valued at £41m

[Stive Pesley]

It's funny because when we were discussing the story about Mel wanting to sell for £1 I did some digging through the Companies House website to work out the structure of the companies in the group and I noticed that there was a separate entity called Derby County Stadium Ltd. I didn't clock at that point it was a new entity - I just figured it had been like that a while

If it's convinced the EFL that we're not in breach of FFP then happy days, but it's smoke and mirrors surely?

Sevco 5112 is is our parent company – and it’s made up of:

• Club DCFC Ltd (Catering and Hospitality arm of DCFC)
• Stadia DCFC Ltd (Corporate and Sponsorship arm of DCFC)
• Derby County FC Academy Ltd (The Academy)
• Gellaw 101 Ltd

Gellaw 101 Ltd is then the holding company that contains:

• Derby County FC Ltd (The Club)
• Derby County Stadium (The Ground)

So essentially the same guy that owns Gellaw 101 Ltd has set up a separate subsidiary company and sold himself something he already owns - at double the price than it's existing book value?!

Or put another way - Mel has simply invested another £40m into the club, with the only tangible effect being that he now (still) owns the stadium. just in a separate company/set of accounts.

 

[AndyinLiverpool]

Curtis Davies? Blimey. Remember him?

[KCG]

10 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

If it's convinced the EFL that we're not in breach of FFP then happy days, but it's smoke and mirrors surely?

 

 

Of course, it is. Welcome to the world of accountancy and economics. But we should blame the stupidity of FFP.

[Gritty]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Are those FFP / P&S losses though? 15/16 losses of £14.7m resulted in a FFP loss of £9m and 14/15 losses of £10.1m resulted in FFP losses of £5.6m.

Baird, Bent, Jerome, Shackell, Weimann, Vydra, Ledley (half season) all sold/released. Butterfield, Blackman, Thorne, Martin and Pearce all loaned out this season. Waghorn, Marriott, Jozefzoon, Holmes, Cole (half season), Evans, Malone, Ambrose (half season), Tomori, Mount and Wilson in. Wouldn;t be surprised if we're about £5m better off.

Thankfully we'll also have £10m slashed off the wage bill at the end of this season.

The 10mn off the wage bill will help us in 19/20 rather than 18/19.  Not sure what the balance of ins and outs is in 18/19. You may be right. I think if the EFL have accepted the sale and lease-back then we're in the clear regardless

[Carnero]

@StivePesley effectively by "selling" the stadium, we've found a way of recognising the profit from the fact that a stadium with a book value of £41m was way below it's current market value of £80m.

Without a sale then this £80m asset would have still sat on the balance sheet at £41m as under the current FRS102, the asset is not allowed to be revalued upwards, even where it's true worth higher than it's book value.

Clever accounting.

[cheron85]

1 minute ago, Carnero said:

@StivePesley effectively by "selling" the stadium, we've found a way of recognising the profit from the fact that a stadium with a book value of £41m was way below it's current market value of £80m.

Without a sale then this £80m asset would have still sat on the balance sheet at £41m as under the current FRS102, the asset is not allowed to be revalued upwards, even where it's true worth higher than it's book value.

Clever accounting.

Yeh, very smart work all round

Also - Takes the value of the club down by £41m which means if/when they come round to selling it's cheaper for investors

[Ellafella]

1 hour ago, Gritters said:

I’m quite pleased with the news that we have sold the stadium. Now are we going to purchase some houses up in Nomanton and rebuild the BBG where we belong.

Yes; I’m pretty sure @loweman2 has most of the original bricks, turnstiles, chunks of pitch, flags, goal-posts, floodlight bulbs,  Sam Longson’s trilby, Sam Longson original cigar butt, and other various BBG artefacts in his garden shed. ?

[Ambitious]

It's a smart move, but no doubt came as a last resort. We're doing our best to spend whatever we can in terms of competing with the parachute payment clubs, so we're going to have to be smart with our accounting and I'm glad we are. 

I find it laughable that people consider this risky, considering how much MM has put into the infrastructure of the club and is a lifelong fan, I doubt he's doing it for financial gain and willing to see the club he loves go to the dogs because of it. 

I hope this allows us to go into the next transfer window, irregardless of division, without a cloud over our head and the people in charge a bit of freedom to make the changes they want. Not at the same level Clement was afforded, but perhaps enough room to not have to compromise too much on the types of players we're after.  

 

[SaintRam]

16 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Irrelevant, sale price is £80m for an asset b/f of £41m. All of the profit £39m is recognised in the year of sale, regardless of payment terms.

I highly doubt any money is actually changing hands, it'll all be a paper exercise.

You're late to the party friendo! We've already been set straight on all our misunderstandings ? 

[cannable]

1 hour ago, R@M said:

Also means that the proposed concourse redevelopment will not affect ffp at all. Shrewd. Almost like we have a fan and successful businessman in charge. 

I don’t think improvements on infrastructure affected FFP anyway

[Carnero]

29 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

You're late to the party friendo! We've already been set straight on all our misunderstandings ? 

Yes I carried on reading through the remaining pages after I had replied ?

Hey ho!

[Wolfie20]

1 hour ago, Ellafella said:

Yes; I’m pretty sure @loweman2 has most of the original bricks, turnstiles, chunks of pitch, flags, goal-posts, floodlight bulbs,  Sam Longson’s trilby, Sam Longson original cigar butt, and other various BBG artefacts in his garden shed. ?

Plus the newly-painted penalty spot