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The Politics Thread 2019


David

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4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes. Not sure I implied that? Was just saying that No Deal was not something that wasn't mentioned prior to Brexit vote. However, on review I would say it is something that was barely mentioned.

That's because the liars conned an awful lot of people with their "easiest deal ever....we hold all the cards...it will hurt them more than us...they need our money...we can have our cake and eat it...we have heard enough from experts" schtick.

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Here’s my dumb oversimplification, remainers will not accept democratic vote and keep fighting to stop it being implemented ( very sad) ,that said I’m pretty sure had remain won leavers would be doing the same ( also very sad) 

we either stay in at the centre of things as we were or we leave with no deal ,all the fudge that is going on to make it look like we have honoured the referendum when we really haven’t just weakens our position in Europe and with the rest of the world  and is bad for us in the long term ,

 

 

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6 hours ago, eddie said:

That's because the liars conned an awful lot of people with their "easiest deal ever....we hold all the cards...it will hurt them more than us...they need our money...we can have our cake and eat it...we have heard enough from experts" schtick.

Or maybe all the above would have been proven correct had negotiations been carried out by competent people.

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7 hours ago, 1of4 said:

 

For number one to be achievable, a number of MPs would need to alter their views about it or for a general election to be held to fill Parliament with pro brexit members.

As for number two to be achievable see above. But with a different set of MPs being changed.

So there is no point in a second Referendum them. 

What this all boils down to is what the politicians want, not what is voted for.

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14 hours ago, Highgate said:

If, on the other hand, people are saying that a proportion of those who voted Leave did so because they were fed half-truths, lies and fantasies by some obviously unscrupulous politicians then they may very well have a point. 

That is exactly the point: The "Remain" obvious lies about crashing the economy, emergency budgets, crushing unemployment, made me completely disbelieve the (very few) positive arguments they made for staying in. I voted out and today's nonsense from Barnier about British nostalgia confirms my view.

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14 hours ago, eddie said:

If that actually looked a likely scenario towards the termination of this parliament, then I'm fainly sure that a bill would very swiftly be passed bringing in PR. Ad not before time either.

Didn't we have a vote on that so time ago. Another democratic choice being ignored by the losing side!

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14 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

That is exactly the point: The "Remain" obvious lies about crashing the economy, emergency budgets, crushing unemployment, made me completely disbelieve the (very few) positive arguments they made for staying in. I voted out and today's nonsense from Barnier about British nostalgia confirms my view.

You forget the £70 billion the Bank of England spent in the weeks of the vote to shore up the economy, you forget the steady rising of costs for businesses, either due to having to 'stock up' or imports being more expensive.  Have you failed to read/watch the news of how the NHS foreign workers are leaving in droves. 

Don't believe me, here is what the CBI has to say about it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/48465791

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44462829

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27 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Didn't we have a vote on that so time ago. Another democratic choice being ignored by the losing side!

Not really. The 2011 vote was about an "alternative vote" system whereas voters rank candidates, who are eliminated one by one and votes re-allocated until one of them gets over 50%. It would then still be a FPTP for parliament.

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I propose a radical solution

We split the UK into two separate countries - one leaves (New Britain) and one remains (Great Britain).

People move to whichever country they fancy (via a houseswap application that I'm sure Chris Grayling can pay me £50m to knockup in a couple of days).

Then we see what happens.

Obviously this will all be subject to reality TV documentary on Channel 5 following the progress of selected eccentric (and possibly mentally ill) families

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2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Or maybe all the above would have been proven correct had negotiations been carried out by competent people.

Well, seeing as the Tories decried the input of 'experts', please define "competent people".

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5 minutes ago, eddie said:

Well, seeing as the Tories decried the input of 'experts', please define "competent people".

Someone that believed in what they negotiating would have been a good start.

Someone that didn't put all of their cards on the table would also have helped.

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1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

That is exactly the point: The "Remain" obvious lies about crashing the economy, emergency budgets, crushing unemployment, made me completely disbelieve the (very few) positive arguments they made for staying in. I voted out and today's nonsense from Barnier about British nostalgia confirms my view.

I suppose the best thing for a voter to do all along was try to ascertain the facts for themselves, independently of the politicians on either side who tend to biased one way or the other.  

 

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53 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

That is exactly the point: The "Remain" obvious lies about crashing the economy, emergency budgets, crushing unemployment, made me completely disbelieve the (very few) positive arguments they made for staying in. I voted out and today's nonsense from Barnier about British nostalgia confirms my view.

Er, we haven't left yet. What we saw in the aftermath of the referendum was a significant erosion in overseas confidence, resulting in Britain's GDP sliding from the top of the EU 'tree' to its current position near the bottom. I agree that warnings of an 'immediate recession' did not come to pass, but look on the bright side. You still have that to look forward to when we crash out with no deal on Halloween.

As far as Barnier is concerned, I think he's absolutely spot-on, given the "Well,we survived the Blitz" and various Churchillian examples of rhetoric currently being bandied about by Brextremists. The rest of the world - not just Europe - is laughing at the appalling self-harm Britain is imposing upon itself, and its pompous posturing.

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9 minutes ago, Curtains said:

 

29D8D4AA-D2F4-4458-BC5D-DD12C76621F7.jpeg

Churchill was pro-Europe. In 1946, he delivered a speech (on September 19, in Zurich if you wish to look it up) where he actually called for the establishment of a "United States of Europe".

Why do Brextremists hate Churchill and everything he stood for?

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6 minutes ago, Curtains said:

 

29D8D4AA-D2F4-4458-BC5D-DD12C76621F7.jpeg

Genocidal racist (quotes '"I am strongly in favour of using poison gas against uncivilised tribes." "Aryan stock is bound to triumph."  . Creator of the cold war.  Destabilised the Middle East.

Seen, from behind rose tinted glasses, as the savior of western values.  Ignores the fact he shafted Russia and it was Russia that actually broke the Nazi war machine, and the west came in and mopped up.

 

 

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