eddie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Yes. Not sure I implied that? Was just saying that No Deal was not something that wasn't mentioned prior to Brexit vote. However, on review I would say it is something that was barely mentioned. That's because the liars conned an awful lot of people with their "easiest deal ever....we hold all the cards...it will hurt them more than us...they need our money...we can have our cake and eat it...we have heard enough from experts" schtick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Here’s my dumb oversimplification, remainers will not accept democratic vote and keep fighting to stop it being implemented ( very sad) ,that said I’m pretty sure had remain won leavers would be doing the same ( also very sad) we either stay in at the centre of things as we were or we leave with no deal ,all the fudge that is going on to make it look like we have honoured the referendum when we really haven’t just weakens our position in Europe and with the rest of the world and is bad for us in the long term , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 6 hours ago, eddie said: That's because the liars conned an awful lot of people with their "easiest deal ever....we hold all the cards...it will hurt them more than us...they need our money...we can have our cake and eat it...we have heard enough from experts" schtick. Or maybe all the above would have been proven correct had negotiations been carried out by competent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 7 hours ago, 1of4 said: For number one to be achievable, a number of MPs would need to alter their views about it or for a general election to be held to fill Parliament with pro brexit members. As for number two to be achievable see above. But with a different set of MPs being changed. So there is no point in a second Referendum them. What this all boils down to is what the politicians want, not what is voted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Lib Dems now top of a General Election Poll by YouGov LD: 24% Brexit Party: 22% Tories: 19% Labour: 19% Green: 8% Strange times indeed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 14 hours ago, Highgate said: If, on the other hand, people are saying that a proportion of those who voted Leave did so because they were fed half-truths, lies and fantasies by some obviously unscrupulous politicians then they may very well have a point. That is exactly the point: The "Remain" obvious lies about crashing the economy, emergency budgets, crushing unemployment, made me completely disbelieve the (very few) positive arguments they made for staying in. I voted out and today's nonsense from Barnier about British nostalgia confirms my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 14 hours ago, eddie said: If that actually looked a likely scenario towards the termination of this parliament, then I'm fainly sure that a bill would very swiftly be passed bringing in PR. Ad not before time either. Didn't we have a vote on that so time ago. Another democratic choice being ignored by the losing side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, FindernRam said: That is exactly the point: The "Remain" obvious lies about crashing the economy, emergency budgets, crushing unemployment, made me completely disbelieve the (very few) positive arguments they made for staying in. I voted out and today's nonsense from Barnier about British nostalgia confirms my view. You forget the £70 billion the Bank of England spent in the weeks of the vote to shore up the economy, you forget the steady rising of costs for businesses, either due to having to 'stock up' or imports being more expensive. Have you failed to read/watch the news of how the NHS foreign workers are leaving in droves. Don't believe me, here is what the CBI has to say about it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/48465791 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44462829 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Didn't we have a vote on that so time ago. Another democratic choice being ignored by the losing side! Not really. The 2011 vote was about an "alternative vote" system whereas voters rank candidates, who are eliminated one by one and votes re-allocated until one of them gets over 50%. It would then still be a FPTP for parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I propose a radical solution We split the UK into two separate countries - one leaves (New Britain) and one remains (Great Britain). People move to whichever country they fancy (via a houseswap application that I'm sure Chris Grayling can pay me £50m to knockup in a couple of days). Then we see what happens. Obviously this will all be subject to reality TV documentary on Channel 5 following the progress of selected eccentric (and possibly mentally ill) families Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Or maybe all the above would have been proven correct had negotiations been carried out by competent people. Well, seeing as the Tories decried the input of 'experts', please define "competent people". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, eddie said: Well, seeing as the Tories decried the input of 'experts', please define "competent people". Someone that believed in what they negotiating would have been a good start. Someone that didn't put all of their cards on the table would also have helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, eddie said: Well, seeing as the Tories decried the input of 'experts', please define "competent people". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, FindernRam said: That is exactly the point: The "Remain" obvious lies about crashing the economy, emergency budgets, crushing unemployment, made me completely disbelieve the (very few) positive arguments they made for staying in. I voted out and today's nonsense from Barnier about British nostalgia confirms my view. I suppose the best thing for a voter to do all along was try to ascertain the facts for themselves, independently of the politicians on either side who tend to biased one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 53 minutes ago, FindernRam said: That is exactly the point: The "Remain" obvious lies about crashing the economy, emergency budgets, crushing unemployment, made me completely disbelieve the (very few) positive arguments they made for staying in. I voted out and today's nonsense from Barnier about British nostalgia confirms my view. Er, we haven't left yet. What we saw in the aftermath of the referendum was a significant erosion in overseas confidence, resulting in Britain's GDP sliding from the top of the EU 'tree' to its current position near the bottom. I agree that warnings of an 'immediate recession' did not come to pass, but look on the bright side. You still have that to look forward to when we crash out with no deal on Halloween. As far as Barnier is concerned, I think he's absolutely spot-on, given the "Well,we survived the Blitz" and various Churchillian examples of rhetoric currently being bandied about by Brextremists. The rest of the world - not just Europe - is laughing at the appalling self-harm Britain is imposing upon itself, and its pompous posturing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 How do people see the next General Election going? I reckon there will be no outright winner and I wouldn't be surprised to see a Labour - Lib Dem coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, Curtains said: Churchill was pro-Europe. In 1946, he delivered a speech (on September 19, in Zurich if you wish to look it up) where he actually called for the establishment of a "United States of Europe". Why do Brextremists hate Churchill and everything he stood for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Curtains said: Genocidal racist (quotes '"I am strongly in favour of using poison gas against uncivilised tribes." "Aryan stock is bound to triumph." . Creator of the cold war. Destabilised the Middle East. Seen, from behind rose tinted glasses, as the savior of western values. Ignores the fact he shafted Russia and it was Russia that actually broke the Nazi war machine, and the west came in and mopped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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