Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: ? What point do you think you actually just made? What point do you actually think I have been making? Versus what you think I am... You need to improve on formulating your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 The NHS wouldn't even get an IPO if it was actually up for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I wasnt suggesting it was simple, I simply didnt know the mechanics for selling drugs to the NHS hence why I asked the question. Even with the explanation given above, I dont quite understand how that prevents private American companies from selling at higher prices to the UK market but accept that you obviously know more about that than me! Sorry you've lost me. Bit tired today! How what prevents American companies selling at higher prices? What I'm suggesting is that there won't be anything to stop them as confirmed by Raab. Apologies if I've misunderstood your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Uptherams said: You need to improve on formulating your argument. I admit I'm very bad at dealing with people who continually try and talk down to others and those who speak in absolutes. Any tips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: How what prevents American companies selling at higher prices? What I'm suggesting is that there won't be anything to stop them as confirmed by Raab. So what is there currently to stop the Americans selling at higher prices to the NHS was my question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Uptherams said: The NHS wouldn't even get an IPO if it was actually up for sale. You do say some very silly things. Pharma can and yet might make additional billions from drugs sales alone if pricing controls are waived and patents artificially extended, not to mention service contracts worth just as much if not more. This is where the value lies for potential suitors, not in a buyout. Who is even talking about floating the NHS anyway, apart from yourself obviously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I admit I'm very bad at dealing with people who continually try and talk down to others and those who speak in absolutes. Any tips? You should really read your posts back as you don't say much of anything, apart from strap-lines. Strap-lines of which most people you attempt to have a discussion with are already aware of because we don't just get our media from sources we agree with. It's not an insult to ask for your actual opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: So what is there currently to stop the Americans selling at higher prices to the NHS was my question? I just don't understand the strategy. It seems beyond obvious that they want to sell us more drugs. Not less. Hence why this is part of a trade deal. They want better access to compete to sell and supply us with drugs. Which means better drugs and or lower prices than current suppliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, Uptherams said: Name the factions of the Conservative party in this election. Not different demographics. A party that might get 45% vote share. There are one-nation tories and neo-liberals, for example. Not sure what your point is about 'this election'. The factions don't disappear just because it's an election. As I said in my other post on this, the Tories are incredibly good at sticking together at election times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: So what is there currently to stop the Americans selling at higher prices to the NHS was my question? EU controls. The EU has negotiated fixed pricing based on a block purchase. It has also placed limits on the length of patents for newly developed medicines. What Raab is effectively saying is that without the EU controls, it is the US that will set the price. In reality, the significant danger is attached to the newer medicines that remain under patent as I don't think anyone in the UK would put up with diabetics suddenly having to pay exorbitant fees for a drug that has been provided very cheaply to date but do we want to run the risk of being held to financial ransom for potentially lifesaving new treatments? Not sure if I've explained that terribly well but best I can do in current state! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Uptherams said: I just don't understand the strategy. At last we agree on something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: You do say some very silly things. Pharma can and yet might make additional billions from drugs sales alone if pricing controls are waived and patents artificially extended, not to mention service contracts worth just as much if not more. This is where the value lies for potential suitors, not in a buyout. Who is even talking about floating the NHS anyway, apart from yourself obviously! You wouldn't find an underwriter. An IPO is the benchmark of a company that is for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: There are one-nation tories and neo-liberals, for example. Not sure what your point is about 'this election'. The factions don't disappear just because it's an election. As I said in my other post on this, the Tories are incredibly good at sticking together at election times. I think you are missing the point entirely. The Labour party has many factions that identify as groups that have opposing views and ways of life. This is turning away the core Labour voter, who was once designated almost entirely by class. These identity groups will turn on each other. The first group to suffer this fate is the Jewish Labour voter, who ironically even though a minority, didn't identify based on identity like the others. It is not an election winning formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 59 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: ? The labour party members by age is not significantly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 20 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: There are one-nation tories and neo-liberals, for example. Not sure what your point is about 'this election'. The factions don't disappear just because it's an election. As I said in my other post on this, the Tories are incredibly good at sticking together at election times. You clearly don't understand. This is a differing view, a single policy if you like. Not identity like those I listed within Labour. The sooner Labour deals with this, the better. That way all us so called far right people ? can go back to potentially actually voting for Labour and things like a bigger state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 5 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: Agreed - we've had the ability to work from home for years now. At first it was seen as an emergency type thing, and everyone was cyncial that when someone was working at home they were skiving, but these days now it's a generally accepted working method and people are trusted -no one bats an eyelid. Obviously management have to keep an eye on things, but when people work from home as a regular thing - you can't skive because you still have to do your job in full As for the social aspect - we spend all day on skype calls to team mates spread geographically between various UK locations, Germany, USA, Singapore, Phillipines, Bulgaria, Poland, France...I actually only have 4 team mates left in Derby now anyway thanks to "off-shoring" and the global economy Been widespread in my industry for about 10 years and I normally do so once a week depending on meeting commitments. HSBC head office in canary wharf had a desk allocation of 0.4 per fte at one stage so you were expected to wfh 3 days per week. I think one impediment is rail fare structure. Most people have invested in annual season tickets that are driven by calendar rather than the number of journeys that you make. There are smart cards on our line but you can only load 10 journeys and you get a whopping 5% off the full daily fare. Annual gold cards, if used every day , give you about 60% off. Ideally you need to be able to buy say 100 journeys at once at something like half price and then use at your leisure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Why are we getting bogged down with membership numbers and membership demographics? Have I missed something about the vote on the 12th. Do I need to register for party membership to be able to vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, i-Ram said: Why are we getting bogged down with membership numbers and membership demographics? Have I missed something about the vote on the 12th. Do I need to register for party membership to be able to vote? I don't know, they aren't significantly different in either age group or social class. If membership is anything to go by labour will get a massive majority. So no it doesn't make any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 41 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: EU controls. The EU has negotiated fixed pricing based on a block purchase. It has also placed limits on the length of patents for newly developed medicines. What Raab is effectively saying is that without the EU controls, it is the US that will set the price. In reality, the significant danger is attached to the newer medicines that remain under patent as I don't think anyone in the UK would put up with diabetics suddenly having to pay exorbitant fees for a drug that has been provided very cheaply to date but do we want to run the risk of being held to financial ransom for potentially lifesaving new treatments? Not sure if I've explained that terribly well but best I can do in current state! Think I understand but I dont see what the EU can do to keep the prices down that the UK cant? Obviously buying power means EU can obtain lower pricing but if the American companies want to benefit from the UK market I dont see how they think charging ridiculously high prices will help them do that? Unless of course they are the only supplier in which case they could charge whatever they wanted anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 52 minutes ago, Uptherams said: You wouldn't find an underwriter. An IPO is the benchmark of a company that is for sale. OK so an IPO is an initial public offering of shares in a company. It is not 'benchmark of a company that is for sale'. The NHS is not a company, nor is anyone suggesting that the Tories intend to float it on the stock market. As such, there is no scope nor need for any form of underwriting so I have absolutely no idea why you keep banging on about it. It's as if you're having a debate with yourself, which, come to think of it, might well be preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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