GboroRam Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Do we have another vote in 3 years to see if the opinion has changed again ? Also labours vote is leaving with a deal or to remain in the EU, the leave option is aligned to having such things as customs union etc and therefore for me the option of leaving the EU and being in charge of our own rules and regs is not on the table. I voted remain however the majority won, why should we vote again is beyond me. Maybe we do. We gauge opinion and decide what's the right thing to do. We should never have agreed to a change without a significant majority in favour, say 2/3rds. We should be willing to weigh up the mood of the country now we have more information. Especially as there's obviously been a lot of disinformation and mistruth in the run-up to the vote. Nothing wrong in being clear before making major changes. As I say, I still think leave would win in a second referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I don't believe a word he comes out with either. Unbelievable -EMF Strangely apt chorus lyrics for our current crop of politicians ….on all sides The things, you say Your purple prose just gives you away The things, you say You're unbelievable (what the ****?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I don't believe a word he comes out with either. No, that was in response to someone implying Britain Elects twitter account should be ignored because they don't like what get's posted. Head in the sand attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Uptherams said: No, that was in response to someone implying Britain Elects twitter account should be ignored because they don't like what get's posted. Head in the sand attitude. or just an easy wind up. It is the internet after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 25 minutes ago, Uptherams said: It should be up to people to decide if they want to work 4 or 5 or 6 days a week. Absolutely - and I didn't suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, SchtivePesley said: Absolutely - and I didn't suggest otherwise. It's too soon for these kind of ideas in manifestos. Just like a basic income. When parties like the Greens make such proposal's it damages the cause. This should not be drawn out at elections. I'm sorry but the left has a problem with radicals. The Lib Dems and Labour need to move away from those in their own party and completely disband any association with parties like the Greens, Plaid and the SNP. Otherwise they won't form a majority functioning government again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 26 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Maybe we do. We gauge opinion and decide what's the right thing to do. We should never have agreed to a change without a significant majority in favour, say 2/3rds. We should be willing to weigh up the mood of the country now we have more information. Especially as there's obviously been a lot of disinformation and mistruth in the run-up to the vote. Nothing wrong in being clear before making major changes. As I say, I still think leave would win in a second referendum. What information is available now that was not available before the Referendum? How do you know what you have been told since the result is not disinformation and mistrust? Isnt alot of this information based on predictions which are based on a lot of unknowns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 37 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Maybe we do. We gauge opinion and decide what's the right thing to do. We should never have agreed to a change without a significant majority in favour, say 2/3rds. We should be willing to weigh up the mood of the country now we have more information. Especially as there's obviously been a lot of disinformation and mistruth in the run-up to the vote. Nothing wrong in being clear before making major changes. As I say, I still think leave would win in a second referendum. Why a 2/3rds majority, surely a majority is good enough ? I would say remain would win, only because a lot of the country is so fed up of the way politicians have failed to deliver Brexit they just want it sorted. Also in regard to Labours offering, are they saying they would renegotiate the deal before proposing it to the country ? Would put the EU in a very strong position to do what they want wouldn’t it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: What information is available now that was not available before the Referendum? How do you know what you have been told since the result is not disinformation and mistrust? Isnt alot of this information based on predictions which are based on a lot of unknowns? Didnt they tell us that a free trade deal with the EU would be the easiest thing in UK history, getting out of the EU would be quick and easy, trade deals would be in place before we left. Several aspects of what was promised wasn’t based upon the deal on the table at the moment I’d say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 hour ago, AdamRam said: Do we have another vote in 3 years to see if the opinion has changed again ? Also labours vote is leaving with a deal or to remain in the EU, the leave option is aligned to having such things as customs union etc and therefore for me the option of leaving the EU and being in charge of our own rules and regs is not on the table. I voted remain however the majority won, why should we vote again is beyond me. Well where do you want to start? There was once a red bus blah blah blah............ (3 years later) ....didn’t know what they were voting for and are racist!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Why a 2/3rds majority, surely a majority is good enough ? I would say remain would win, only because a lot of the country is so fed up of the way politicians have failed to deliver Brexit they just want it sorted. Also in regard to Labours offering, are they saying they would renegotiate the deal before proposing it to the country ? Would put the EU in a very strong position to do what they want wouldn’t it ? I think a simple majority has proved to be too divisive. I also feel that the strongest feelings lie in the leave campaign, and they'd maximise their support. It would be close but I think leave might just do it again. And if we're going on simple majority, two leave votes is hard to deny. I don't think any government would have a choice but to do something. We have May's/Boris's deal on the table now. Labour's renegotiation would either extend it, or it wouldn't, depending on the EU's insistence they will not negotiate. I'm sure they would come back to the table again, as despite the fumings of the right, they've been accommodating so far. All the extensions have been at the request of the UK, not the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I think a simple majority has proved to be too divisive. I also feel that the strongest feelings lie in the leave campaign, and they'd maximise their support. It would be close but I think leave might just do it again. And if we're going on simple majority, two leave votes is hard to deny. I don't think any government would have a choice but to do something. We have May's/Boris's deal on the table now. Labour's renegotiation would either extend it, or it wouldn't, depending on the EU's insistence they will not negotiate. I'm sure they would come back to the table again, as despite the fumings of the right, they've been accommodating so far. All the extensions have been at the request of the UK, not the EU. Labour's position is completely ridiculous though. It's not even clear what kind of deal they would put in front of the EU. They can't enact most of their big spending plans and reforms while we are part of the EU. It's utterly farcical. People who are about to vote for Labour need to ask themselves this question. Do I want to remain in the EU or do I want us to go ahead with re-nationalisation. If the answer is re-nationalisation, then they need to play the long game and accept that is only something they can actually vote for at a future general election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 39 minutes ago, Uptherams said: I'm sorry but the left has a problem with radicals. Sounds like you're the one who has the problem with radicals! Too soon for radical ideas? Be sure to let us know when it's the right time. Presumably when we're scrapping over the dead rats and clean drinking water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I think a simple majority has proved to be too divisive. I also feel that the strongest feelings lie in the leave campaign, and they'd maximise their support. It would be close but I think leave might just do it again. And if we're going on simple majority, two leave votes is hard to deny. I don't think any government would have a choice but to do something. We have May's/Boris's deal on the table now. Labour's renegotiation would either extend it, or it wouldn't, depending on the EU's insistence they will not negotiate. I'm sure they would come back to the table again, as despite the fumings of the right, they've been accommodating so far. All the extensions have been at the request of the UK, not the EU. Sounds like a win win if your like you or me that want to remain, however id be pretty peeved off if I’d voted leave in the first instance. One if need 2/3 to win, and secondly the deal put in place is nothing like I voted for and also is no longer an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Uptherams said: People who are about to vote for Labour need to ask themselves this question..... Do I want the most right-wing Tory majority government the UK has ever seen? Tactical voting is the only way now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Do I want the most right-wing Tory majority government the UK has ever seen? I don't think what you're implying is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Do I want the most right-wing Tory majority government the UK has ever seen? I don't even know what that is meant to mean? What's the metric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 44 minutes ago, Uptherams said: I'm sorry but the left has a problem with radicals. The Lib Dems and Labour need to move away from those in their own party and completely disband any association with parties like the Greens, Plaid and the SNP. Otherwise they won't form a majority functioning government again. Both Labour and the Tories have a problem with fringe-players taking centre stage at the moment. Labour has the rolly-eyed Momentum Corbyn brigade while the Tories have Dickensian apparitions. A key issue is safe seat type MPs who are there forever and get weirder and weirder, don't need to accommodate other views once selected and can gob off all they like (defy whips etc). I think the Scots might well be off so won't be a factor soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Sounds like a win win if your like you or me that want to remain, however id be pretty peeved off if I’d voted leave in the first instance. One if need 2/3 to win, and secondly the deal put in place is nothing like I voted for and also is no longer an option. Any more silliness with Brexit and Labour will lose Wales too, just like they did Scotland. We are already seeing the decline in Wales and in the North. People who have voted generation after generation, election after election for Labour. There is a transition taking place. Once these people switch, the demographics change entirely. They won't just switch back. We will experience the same pattern, only generation after generation, election after election not voting for Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Raab admits the US will be able to hike drug prices post-Brexit. Reassuringly tells us he's sure they won't though, presumably because they've shown in the way that they handle the sick and dying in their own country, what a compassionate lot they are. Less Big Pharma and more Cuddly Rotund and Benevolent Pharma. Will they now hide Raab away along with Boris and that melt Rees-Mogg? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-brexit-nhs-privatisation-trump-us-drugs-price-increase-a9230661.html Meanwhile, has anyone heard anyone who actually works as a doctor or nurse or anywhere within the NHS state that it will be perfectly safe in Conservative hands and they are happy with the last 10 years of Tory stewardship? Anyone at all or is there a conspiracy whereby every NHS worker in the UK is seeking to undermine Boris Johnson. Asking for a friend... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-nhs-unprecedented-crisis-conservative-party-british-medical-association-a9182811.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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