The Politics Thread 2019

[GboroRam]

New indicative votes. 

What do we want? No

When do we want it? No

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, HantsRam said:

We should have been having the rational debate about what Brexit could look like 2 years ago.....not now!

Probably easy to say it with the benefit of hindsight isn't it - but blimey - could you be any  more right?

If we'd have had a tortuous round of indicative votes without any consensus BEFORE triggering A50 then it might have been a bit more out in the open as to how difficult the road ahead was going to be.

Perhaps then we might have clocked that a minority government was never going to be able to get anything over the line 

Meh

 

Edit: It occurs to me that whilst we've been away from politics here , they might have actually succeeded in uniting the remainers and leavers. We now all agree - our parliament is full of absolute morons

[Rev]

I find myself without any representation in parliament, seeing as my MP has resigned from the party I'm a member of, and now does even less than the bare minimum he did as a constituency MP.

Snidey bugger, and as for Change, I'll look beyond a group that sides with the Tories and DUP when it comes to Europe, thanks.

[eddie]

That's all, folks. The hard-liners have got their way, which was Rees-Mogg's intention all along. We will leave next week with no deal. Give it 6 months to a year, and I reckon quite a few people will be saying "This isn't what I voted for."

[Boycie]

Will the world end if we leave with no deal?

[Norman]

Ordeeeeeerrrrr ordeeeeerrrrrrr!

Another round of indicative votes on Wednesday then?

We all know Bercow doesn't allow it to happen thrice though.

I'd like to see them vote on whether or not they support the current EU deal we have.

Because it would get voted down too.

[ariotofmyown]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

Ordeeeeeerrrrr ordeeeeerrrrrrr!

Another round of indicative votes on Wednesday then?

We all know Bercow doesn't allow it to happen thrice though.

I'd like to see them vote on whether or not they support the current EU deal we have.

Because it would get voted down too.

How about a vote on whether VAR should be implemented next season in the the Prem in an identical fashion to this year's FA Cup.

[GboroRam]

30 minutes ago, eddie said:

That's all, folks. The hard-liners have got their way, which was Rees-Mogg's intention all along. We will leave next week with no deal. Give it 6 months to a year, and I reckon quite a few people will be saying "This isn't what I voted for."

... And will come begging to come back. Question is, after all the poor faith negotiations, would the EU want the UK back? 

If we hard brexit out, I think we've screwed at least the next two decades. Maybe never to claw back to where we were. But it'll take a hard brexit to prove to the public they were completely lied to. 

[eddie]

21 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Will the world end if we leave with no deal?

Mine will if I can't get the drugs which stop me dying of thrombosis.

[eddie]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

... And will come begging to come back. Question is, after all the poor faith negotiations, would the EU want the UK back? 

If we hard brexit out, I think we've screwed at least the next two decades. Maybe never to claw back to where we were. But it'll take a hard brexit to prove to the public they were completely lied to. 

Independent Scotland in 3 years and a united Ireland in 5, I reckon.

[eddie]

22 minutes ago, Norman said:

Ordeeeeeerrrrr ordeeeeerrrrrrr!

Another round of indicative votes on Wednesday then?

We all know Bercow doesn't allow it to happen thrice though.

I'd like to see them vote on whether or not they support the current EU deal we have.

Because it would get voted down too.

Absolutely certain it would - Lord Snooty has around 200 Tories committed to no deal.

They really ought to put no deal, the current deal and Theresa May's deal side by side and vote for one of them - then eliminate the lowest and just vote on the two that remain - and any MP who abstains should spend 5 years in the Tower.

[froggg]

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0OffieziK151AEIGBAMH354tA

[David]

8 minutes ago, froggg said:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0OffieziK151AEIGBAMH354tA

Using an iCloud share link won’t embed on the forum, never has, you need to use the Click to choose files at the bottom left of the editor.

[Ambitious]

4 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

INTRO NOTE: meant with respect, not a shouty note at all.

When you say leave without a deal are you aware what that actually means? Import tax on all cars would immediately be 10%, up to 35% on all dairy products. All of this is immaterial as our 'non-tariff barriers' are completely closed without negotiation to things like food security - this isn't just a bit of fear about chlorine washed chicken, this is the fact that food simply cannot make it into the country. Have a think how many things you buy in the fresh produce section of your local supermarket - it's not about getting all war spirit and growing some spuds in the back garden, there simply will not be a way to get food on the shelves until agreements are decided. Take back control sounds great, even a strong remainer couldn't deny that, but you can only take back control of what you can control.

I'm not trying to do the 'Brexiters are stupid coz they didn't realise what they voted for'. I'm a staunch remainer but the one thing the last two has taught me is that there is something rotten with an institution that is almost impossible to leave. 

 

We have got ourselves in a complete pickle here, one that nobody will be happy with the outcome of for a few flaming obvious reasons.

- A snap election that backfired, shot the whole of Parliament below the waterline

- The utterly ludicrous decision to align with the DUP when everyone knew, from June 24th, that the Irish border was going to be the single biggest problem

- Utterly bereft politicking from the opposition. Corbyn has been an embarrasment to his nation with the way he continues to play this for personal gain

 

How do we fix it? Take the deal and work from there. Rescininding article 50 or a second referendum would be lighting the fuse on serious domestic unrest - people,, mostly obvious targets, would get hurt. The deal is better than WTO in so many ways, in that at least we can carry on trading. Then, case by case, we push back - that is the time we go to the Germans and tell them we won't pay 3.8% to import their cars. It is - to quote another poster - the option that will make 80% of the people 80% happy. Then Corbyn, May, Boris and the rest of them can let the political system unravel over the next decade - they'll get what they deserve.

You're absolutely singing off the same hymn sheet. 

I'm very much a remainer. The only reason I stated 'no deal' Brexit was almost to allow the people to see what they've voted for, hopefully then, with a bit of clarity, we can do something about our situation. As I said: a you've made your bed lie in it attitude. 

I like the sound of your last paragraph, perhaps the deal allows us enough freedom for the time being to negotiate our terms in the future. The word 'deal' comes with so much negativity that as soon as it's reached, it will no doubt bring on a huge sh*tstorm. 

The next few years aren't going to be kind to anyone. It's going to be a painful watch, read and incite more division between the various cultures, mentalites and classes. 

[ossieram]

7 hours ago, eddie said:

Give it 6 months to a year, and I reckon quite a few people will be saying "This isn't what I voted for.

Some of you have been saying that since the referendum.

Until the likes of Juncker can be voted out for making bad decisons, I'll always back Brexit.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

7 hours ago, reveldevil said:

I find myself without any representation in parliament, seeing as my MP has resigned from the party I'm a member of, and now does even less than the bare minimum he did as a constituency MP.

Snidey bugger, and as for Change, I'll look beyond a group that sides with the Tories and DUP when it comes to Europe, thanks.

I’m represented (when I’m at home) by a sex pest who’s slowly crawling his way back into the limelight after ‘finding God’. He’s never genuinely cared about his constituents; rather he looks for the photo opportunity before ducking off to get more publicity. How convenient that, in the background to his videos, he has Burton Albion and Marmite posters on the wall. 

He’s now claiming that almost all of those in his Facebook comments want a No Deal Brexit, despite the fact that he deletes any comments that go against his chosen narrative and blocks those who dare to challenge him.

[GboroRam]

48 minutes ago, ossieram said:

Some of you have been saying that since the referendum.

Until the likes of Juncker can be voted out for making bad decisons, I'll always back Brexit.

No price too high?  He's effectively a glorified civil servant. 

[sheeponacid]

8 hours ago, eddie said:

That's all, folks. The hard-liners have got their way, which was Rees-Mogg's intention all along. We will leave next week with no deal. Give it 6 months to a year, and I reckon quite a few people will be saying "This isn't what I voted for."

Yeh righto....the remain parliament are slowly edging things towards remaining....if you really think a remain parliament will ever allow a no deal Brexit, then I'm shocked. . 

Its taken 3yrs of carefully choreographed parlour games by the chief remainer PM to engineer the right environment to overturn the vote.

Only now people see MPs for what they are....really? Because

 

i delivered this sheep today....but your ruling elite have always seen it as being born yesterday...& reading some posts I can see why.

Dont fear Belgium beer won't run short, capitalist globalisation money deals are quite safe etc..as for the break up of the Uk i think there's more important environmental issues to worry about than wether we keep our rule over other countries....but if your really worried about loosing control over other nations we could use the EU text book, crack a few skull & refuse to let them leave like in Catalonia....there problem solved.

Now let's smash the CAP & start to address Mother Earth problems rather than greedy mans.

[BaaLocks]

7 hours ago, Ambitious said:

perhaps the deal allows us enough freedom for the time being to negotiate our terms in the future. The word 'deal' comes with so much negativity that as soon as it's reached, it will no doubt bring on a huge sh*tstorm. 

The next few years aren't going to be kind to anyone. It's going to be a painful watch, read and incite more division between the various cultures, mentalites and classes. 

Agree on that - I do appreciate that the deal will not be perfect but it is the much better starting point than any other. Theresa May and her teams have handled this so badly, they effectively ran the clock down without any visibility till it was just our way or no way. That is crass and irresponisble politicking and not only removes any of the sympathy we are supposed to have for her (all this, she's such a warrior she just keeps going - she's not, she's a stubborn, hardheaded idiot who has got not only her but her country into this place with her intransigence). The second thing I hope is that history remembers her for this, while David Cameron was a clot of the highest order I would argue the actions of May eclipse even that and put her firmly in place as the worst PM this country has ever seen, and most damaging (and yes, I am old enough to remember Thatcher with true venom).

The saddest part about it all at the moment is nobody seems able to look forward - put on the radio this morning and it's still 'but it was only 52%' and 'the referendum was advisory'. We owe it ot ourselves, and the media and all concerned should help us, to just stop chewing over and over the mistakes - we don't have the time for it - and start to working through how we resolve the future. If nothing else, at least it would bring some together to realise that this is what we have to do, find a common road forward.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

For those of you not quite done with the B word... Last night on BBC2 at 9PM there was a very good behind the scene documentary done by Laura Kuenssberg starting from Chequers meeting in the summer to last Friday. Very good watch, should be on iplayer.

And @David, thx for bringing this back!