Stive Pesley Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Ramshankered said: I'm no expert on this by any stretch, however aren't nations like Norway, Finland and Denmark paying crazy high tax, and yet are consistently ranked highest in terms of national happiness and quality of life? Pretty sure they all have leftie governments no? (might be wrong on that – happy to be corrected) Maybe, just maybe, Labour are following a model that actually works. They are - see also how well Portugal is doing under a socialist coalition. However it is all based on rebalancing the spread of wealth, so it's no surprise that people buy the lies of the super-rich media moguls who are the only ones who stand to be worse off (oh you're only worth 100 billion now not 200 billion? Must be awful for you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Maybe if Londoners weren't off their faces all the time they would have voted inline with the rest of the country and we'd have had Brexit done and dusted a long time ago! https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-how-much-cocaine-londoners-are-taking-every-day-11830741 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, maxjam said: Maybe if Londoners weren't off their faces all the time they would have voted inline with the rest of the country and we'd have had Brexit done and dusted a long time ago! https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-how-much-cocaine-londoners-are-taking-every-day-11830741 'More than Barcelona, Amsterdam and Berlin combined...' Er, the population of London is nearly double those 3 cities combined. Mr Farrell is being more than a little mischievous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Ramshankered said: I'm no expert on this by any stretch, however aren't nations like Norway, Finland and Denmark paying crazy high tax, and yet are consistently ranked highest in terms of national happiness and quality of life? Pretty sure they all have leftie governments no? (might be wrong on that – happy to be corrected) Maybe, just maybe, Labour are following a model that actually works. Yep, the problem we have here is that so many of our right-wing Rams are wholly incapable of discerning the difference between communism and democratic socialism. Many are as old as the hills and as such are seemingly incapable of getting past the 'golden years' under the wonderful Margaret Thatcher where they made a few quid as the Tories began the firesale of UK taxpayer owned assets. Those were the days! Those who can lay claim to some level of economic expertise are now coming around to the idea of a Corbyn led Government versus the 'I voted for a no-deal Brexit, yes really, I did' mob. For example... https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/news/4005698/corbyn-government-deal-brexit-ifs https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/economics/uk-economy-would-be-5-bigger-under-labour-than-a-conservative-government-by-2022/08/10/ https://www.afr.com/world/europe/a-corbyn-led-government-better-for-uk-than-no-deal-brexit-study-finds-20191008-p52yj2 But who needs expert analysis, eh? We've all had enough of experts after all, except, apparently, any expert forecasting a booming UK economy after a no-deal Brexit. Not those experts, obviously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, maxjam said: Maybe if Londoners weren't off their faces all the time they would have voted inline with the rest of the country and we'd have had Brexit done and dusted a long time ago! https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-how-much-cocaine-londoners-are-taking-every-day-11830741 We know how to party down here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Yep, the problem we have here is that so many of our right-wing Rams are wholly incapable of discerning the difference between communism and democratic socialism. Many are as old as the hills and as such are seemingly incapable of getting past the 'golden years' under the wonderful Margaret Thatcher where they made a few quid as the Tories began the firesale of UK taxpayer owned assets. Those were the days! Those who can lay claim to some level of economic expertise are now coming around to the idea of a Corbyn led Government versus the 'I voted for a no-deal Brexit, yes really, I did' mob. For example... https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/news/4005698/corbyn-government-deal-brexit-ifs https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/economics/uk-economy-would-be-5-bigger-under-labour-than-a-conservative-government-by-2022/08/10/ https://www.afr.com/world/europe/a-corbyn-led-government-better-for-uk-than-no-deal-brexit-study-finds-20191008-p52yj2 But who needs expert analysis, eh? We've all had enough of experts after all, except, apparently, any expert forecasting a booming UK economy after a no-deal Brexit. Not those experts, obviously! Is that the same London Economic review that is rated as extreme left/mixed factual reporting? https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-london-economic/ Meanwhile something a tad more balanced says the following; https://www.ft.com/content/dc17d7ee-ccab-11e9-b018-ca4456540ea6 And I'm one of those being mocked for not listening to experts? Geez, step out from your echo chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, maxjam said: Is that the same London Economic review that is rated as extreme left/mixed factual reporting? https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-london-economic/ Meanwhile something a tad more balanced says the following; https://www.ft.com/content/dc17d7ee-ccab-11e9-b018-ca4456540ea6 And I'm one of those being mocked for not listening to experts? Geez, step out from your echo chamber. Have I named you or are you so vain that you've assumed that I'm referring to you? And what about the other two links provided then? Any comment? Nah, thought not. From your own chosen source then... https://www.ft.com/content/36a01cd8-ceed-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f Truth is mate, I don't even read your posts anymore. Stopped way back after all the 'white privilege does not exist' BS you pedalled from your own echo chamber. Sorry to disappoint you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Have I named you or are you so vain that you've assumed that I'm referring to you? And what about the other two links provided then? Any comment? Nah, thought not. Truth is mate, I don't even read your posts anymore. Stopped way back after all the 'white privilege does not exist' BS you pedalled from your own echo chamber. Sorry to disappoint you! First paragraph - quick media bias google search didn't find anything on your first link, your third link was more balanced but both the articles cite the same study; a Corbyn government better than no deal Brexit - but haven't we been told repeatedly for the past 3 years that literally anything is better than a no deal Brexit?!? Apart from a bad deal of course but thats been conveniently fogotten about now... Second paragraph - Despite not reading my posts anymore you managed to somehow work out which link I rubbished. Then true to form you ignore the argument and make it personal with cheap shots and snide digs. I can see why @G STAR RAM has you on ignore. I should probably do the same. EDIT: I can see you've amended your post with a FT link (did you actually read my post?) The FT article you link was posted before the recent Labour conference full of wacky policies, the one I posted is more recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 46 minutes ago, maxjam said: Is that the same London Economic review that is rated as extreme left/mixed factual reporting? https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-london-economic/ This is a fun website - you've posted Daily Telegraph links in the past - which is as far the other way and also "mixed factual" https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/ Shall we agree to only post links to websites that rate in the middle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, maxjam said: Second paragraph - Despite not reading my posts anymore you managed to somehow work out which link I rubbished. Then true to form you ignore the argument and make it personal with cheap shots and snide digs. I can see why @G STAR RAM has you on ignore. I should probably do the same. You quoted me so it wasn't hard! I suppose I could have ignored that too but the same could be said of you. As for snide digs, give me a break! I've lost count how many times you've derided anyone of a left wing persuasion so playing the victim will elicit nothing but disdain from me, I'm afraid. Feel free to stick me on ignore though, rather than whining when taken to task. I won't be alone in you preferring that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: This is a fun website - you've posted Daily Telegraph links in the past - which is as far the other way and also "mixed factual" https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/ Shall we agree to only post links to websites that rate in the middle? When I've got the time I actually make the point of searching up articles from left wing sources (I frequently post Guardian links for example) to make my point. I obviously can't remember every article I've posted but if its garbage its there to be challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: As for snide digs, give me a break! I've lost count how many times you've derided anyone of a left wing persuasion so playing the victim will elicit nothing but disdain from me Disagree with that. I'll mock the (far) left but I try not to mock the poster, I might have slipped once or twice but 'lost count' you'll need to prove it. But this is getting personal and detracting from the ongoing conversations. Have the last word if you must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Yep, the problem we have here is that so many of our right-wing Rams are wholly incapable of discerning the difference between communism and democratic socialism. Many are as old as the hills and as such are seemingly incapable of getting past the 'golden years' under the wonderful Margaret Thatcher where they made a few quid as the Tories began the firesale of UK taxpayer owned assets. Those were the days! Those who can lay claim to some level of economic expertise are now coming around to the idea of a Corbyn led Government versus the 'I voted for a no-deal Brexit, yes really, I did' mob. For example... https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/news/4005698/corbyn-government-deal-brexit-ifs https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/economics/uk-economy-would-be-5-bigger-under-labour-than-a-conservative-government-by-2022/08/10/ https://www.afr.com/world/europe/a-corbyn-led-government-better-for-uk-than-no-deal-brexit-study-finds-20191008-p52yj2 But who needs expert analysis, eh? We've all had enough of experts after all, except, apparently, any expert forecasting a booming UK economy after a no-deal Brexit. Not those experts, obviously! So a Corbyn government would be a bit less catastrophic than a no deal Brexit. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, though, is it?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: So a Corbyn government would be a bit less catastrophic than a no deal Brexit. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, though, is it?. Ha! You got me! I just thought it interesting that both economists and investors see a Corbyn in a slightly more positive light than the bulk of the die-hard Brexit-at-any-cost merchants. I don't think this would have been the case a year back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, maxjam said: When I've got the time I actually make the point of searching up articles from left wing sources (I frequently post Guardian links for example) to make my point. I obviously can't remember every article I've posted but if its garbage its there to be challenged. Appreciate that - it's a good website to bookmark Interestingly the Guardian is only listed as centre-left and strong factual - so not as bad as some people make out.... Even The Canary - which I expected to be marked as far-left is only simply left and also strong factual My expectations of the Express/Mail were more roundly met - right and false facts Spiked and Breitbart also as expected - far right and false facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Appreciate that - it's a good website to bookmark Interestingly the Guardian is only listed as centre-left and strong factual - so not as bad as some people make out.... Even The Canary - which I expected to be marked as far-left is only simply left and also strong factual My expectations of the Express/Mail were more roundly met - right and false facts Spiked and Breitbart also as expected - far right and false facts I am a regular visitor to the Spiked site, though this is largely to remind myself that, no matter how cross I am about something, it's nothing compared to them over there, who froth at the mouth about such things as Virgin trains not selling the Daily Mail or Me Too. A small group of terrified men funded by the Koch brother(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 35 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Appreciate that - it's a good website to bookmark Interestingly the Guardian is only listed as centre-left and strong factual - so not as bad as some people make out.... Even The Canary - which I expected to be marked as far-left is only simply left and also strong factual My expectations of the Express/Mail were more roundly met - right and false facts Spiked and Breitbart also as expected - far right and false facts I'll agree that the Guardian isn't as bad as I sometimes joke about, I generally check it out everyday. Their opinion pieces need dailing back a bit though and do deserve criticism (imo) - some of the recent Joker hysteria articles they posted are prime examples. NewsGuard is another good website to check out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: the Tories began the firesale of UK taxpayer owned assets Who flogged off all our gold a rock bottom prices?- The fiscally challenged Labour Party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Who flogged off all our gold a rock bottom prices?- The fiscally challenged Labour Party Classic 'whataboutery' right there but if we must compare and contrast, I'm not sure flogging £3.5 billion in gold really equates to the privatisation program that saw the entities listed below flogged off to foreign investors, especially when one considers that the UK were not alone in dumping gold reserves at that time. Also, for the sake of accuracy, he did not sell all off 'all our gold' but just over half the reserve at that time. Other central banks also selling gold included Belgium, Canada and the Netherlands who had already sold 1,590 tonnes between them since 1990. In 1997 alone, Argentina and Australia sold a combined 290 tonnes. In April 1999, even the notoriously thrifty Switzerland approved a plan to sell 1,300 tonnes from its 2,590-tonne hoard at a price broadly equivalent to that Brown achieved. FWIW, I'm not defending Brown's decision but I'd counter that it was not the biggest mistake he made in his time as Chancellor either. I'd also counter that if you believe that Blair and Brown were socialists, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I digress... As for the point I originally made, what would these entities look like now had they not been sold off. Hard to know really but it's a staggering list nonetheless. Privatisation Under Thatcher British Petroleum October 1979 British Aerospace February 1981 Cable & Wireless October 1981 Amersham International February 1982 National Freight Corporation February 1982 Britoil November 1982 Associated British Ports February 1983 Enterprise Oil July 1984 Jaguar August 1984 British Telecommunications December 1984 British Shipbuilders 1985 onwards British Gas December 1986 British Airways February 1987 Rolls-Royce May 1987 BAA July 1987 British Steel December 1988 Water December 1989 Electricity 1990 Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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