The Politics Thread 2019

[RamNut]

If Labour had stayed pro-Remain then they could have cleaned up the disaffected votes and made Brexit appear as part of a right wing agenda. 

 

[1of4]

38 minutes ago, jono said:

I reckon that 80% of would be happy to make some sort of deal resulting in 80% of that 80% being reasonably happy.

unfortunately 2 lots of gobby 10% are calling the shots and stopping anything constructive 

Don't think your maths quite work out. 80% of 80% leaves alot more than 20% of unhappy people.

I also think your reckoning that 80% of the country would be happy with some sort of a deal to be on the high side. There again my reckoning could be out. I suppose the only true way to know if the people of the country are happy with any leave agreement accepted by parliament, is to let them vote on it.

 

[ariotofmyown]

8 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Meh.. She will be back..

Back? May is just hanging on ?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

10 hours ago, David said:

The forums profanity filter has word replacements in place, the moderators cannot see the original word that was posted be it duck or the f word. Typing duck off (not using the f) to a member will result in a warning being issued as it would if you used the f word. As would Banker, see you next Tuesday etc.

1

It will still be allowed in jest in other threads, I assume? For example, if you claimed that Dark Fruits was a poor choice of drink, I would be tempted to jokingly refer to you as a financial worker, a female organ or something that comes out of your backside.

[ariotofmyown]

Think Brexit has gone from an argument between Leavers and Remainers to a really compelling political reality show.

Hard to know what any of the politicians even want anymore. A General Election would be laughable unless new parties are formed.

The Tories might actually be finished when it's all over. Labour should be dominating now, but with a change of leader in the future, will be able to pass off the Corbyn era as a fringe thing.

I still think Jezza has policies that would help the majority of the country though, but communication of this seems lacking. Likewise some better leadership to deal with all the anti-Semitic issues.

There are so few politicians currently who have any sort of gravitas or ability it's hard to know what could happen.

Ken Clarke for PM perhaps if he fancies it? Keir Starmer or Tom Watson from Labour? Seems like a centrist coalition could be the answer, although with maybe a leftish leaning in terms of taking wealth and power away from big business and back towards the people. I think that would appeal to a large majority of voters, especially the younger ones. 

They would need to address the real issues that resulted in the Brexit vote, the years of austerity to pay for the bank bailouts for example. There are so many more homeless people in London now than 10 years ago and guess it's the same elsewhere. Also, if you slash funding for youth services, you can't be surprised that kids end up in gangs and crime.

It must be simple to change rules on property ownership for the benefit of nearly everyone other than overseas investors. My mate is surveyor in London and he does so many new build apartments that have never been lived in.

Anyway, like others, I've missed (most of) the politics chat on here. It's good to get a different opinion outside of your own experiences.

My experiences are the continual worry of my Portuguese colleague about what may happen to her family. Whilst her daughters were born in Portugal, they have lived here since babies and are now British teenagers more or less.

Or a friend's daughter-in-law who was told to "go back to Poland", even though she was born in Luton and has lived there her whole life.

I'm sure there must be plenty of experiences from the other side, where a British person has suffered unfair treatment from the EU, but I can't help feeling that the likes of the ERG have helped create the EU bogeyman to futher their own dreams of profitable chaos.  Maybe what is going on with our own government now suggests we aren't quite competent enough to go it alone. 

The EU needs reform but we need to get our own laughing stock of a house in order first. Hopefully whatever with Brexit can be a catalyst for making both the UK and the rest of Europe better for everyone.

 

[RamNut]

Quote

 Maybe what is going on with our own government now suggests we aren't quite competent enough to go it alone. 

 The EU needs reform but we need to get our own laughing stock of a house in order first. 

This!!

[Ambitious]

I can't work out whether I'm a political genius or not... 

The reason I voted remain, the core reason amongst others anyway, was that I didn't trust the people in power to make the decisions required to put us in a better position if we were out of the EU. Negotiating Brexit was/is just the start of an avalanche of decisions too. We've handed our under-performing, divisive government an unbelievable amount of control. I predicted this in 2016 and it's played out almost exactly how I imagined. 

For me, we've made our bed and we should leave without a deal. Any deal we make is going to be worst than the one we have already, which obviously goes without saying, so the only real chance we have of making this work is without a deal and a miracle that we can make something of it. 

[ossieram]

It will be interesting to see how the main 2 parties do at the local elections after all of this Brexit malarkey. Never been a tory and could never vote again for labour in the local elections after that prat Banwait and his cronies last stint. I wouldn't be shocked if UKIP gained more seats with all the leave voters getting the protest votes in. 

[Angry Ram]

So we had better have some politics then.. At least in all this mess Corbyn has showed how completely unelectable he is. The most unpopular PM since god knows when and he is still behind her.. No policies, just sit on the fence opposition.. 

My concern is that he will fight a general election on a second referendum and will gain votes by default.. 

I know for one thing, after this I will never vote again.

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, ossieram said:

It will be interesting to see how the main 2 parties do at the local elections after all of this Brexit malarkey. Never been a tory and could never vote again for labour in the local elections after that prat Banwait and his cronies last stint. I wouldn't be shocked if UKIP gained more seats with all the leave voters getting the protest votes in. 

Honestly believe that UKIP will be a major force now.. Especially if Farage come back.

[Mostyn6]

Antisemitism is being used to undermine the labour party under Corbyn cos the establishment is scared of him breaking up their monopolies. Whilst all discrimination should be weeded out of ALL society, what has happened, mainly fuelled by the likes of Rachel Riley, could potentially see the Tories stay in power, see the NHS sold off and free healthcare abolished, see schools totally privatised and the poorest/least intelligent kids refused an education.

What disturbs me most is that in a reasonable society, a problem is recognised, a solution is created and implemented, then a timeline is set for improvements to be met, but in terms of this antisemitism smokescreen, the problem is mentioned, then no time allowed to devise a solution, and then another complaint is raised cos it's not been dealt with in minimal timescale.

[Wolfie]

17 hours ago, RamNut said:

Brexit has been an utter shambles from start to finish and has exposed the total incompetence of the government, parliament, and prominent individual mps in terms of the failure to lead, manage etc etc. 

The country voted upon an issue that was not understood and impossible to define. The northern Irish border issue was never going  to be resolved. Both main parties started off as pro-remain and then ended up as pro-brexit. How's that for conviction politics? Politicians have played small-minded political games and shown that they are unfit to govern. The house cannot reach a consensus but is unwilling to allow the public a second vote.

If there was ever an issue that showed how utterly useless the whole political system has become, then this is it.

I agree on the whole political games thing & putting self and party ahead of the country but it really shouldn't be a surprise that Parliament can't agree on the way forward.

There was no majority for any of the options last week but that's just a refelection of public opinion, when you've got several different versions of Brexit to choose from (still hate that term, after 3 years).

Still, I think the turnout for the possible/likely upcoming general election could well be the lowest ever.

[Anon]

10 minutes ago, Moist One said:

Antisemitism is being used to undermine the labour party under Corbyn cos the establishment is scared of him breaking up their monopolies. Whilst all discrimination should be weeded out of ALL society, what has happened, mainly fuelled by the likes of Rachel Riley, could potentially see the Tories stay in power, see the NHS sold off and free healthcare abolished, see schools totally privatised and the poorest/least intelligent kids refused an education.

Poor, poor Labour. Maybe they'd have more success in dispelling the anti Semitic criticism if they hadn't fully embraced idpol themselves and used it as a crutch as and when it suits them?

[SSD]

If there was ever a time for a new political party to form and make a challenge for the big parties, it's now. I've voted for either side in the past. Now I wouldn't vote for any party. Rather vote for a independent candidate, even if it's Dave dressed in a penguin suit. British politics is a sorry state of affairs. These MP's are an embarrassment to this country. I saw a number of them laughing when the deal was rejected again. I wouldn't be laughing. What happened to representing the will of the people? Why has this got to be about political ideologies? No wonder people are sick of the Brexit process.

And why wasn't a draft deal brought to the table last year rather than at the last minute to cause chaos?

Garghhhh!

[Mostyn6]

8 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

If there was ever a time for a new political party to form and make a challenge for the big parties, it's now. I've voted for either side in the past. Now I wouldn't vote for any party. Rather vote for a independent candidate, even if it's Dave dressed in a penguin suit. British politics is a sorry state of affairs. These MP's are an embarrassment to this country. I saw a number of them laughing when the deal was rejected again. I wouldn't be laughing. What happened to representing the will of the people? Why has this got to be about political ideologies? No wonder people are sick of the Brexit process.

And why wasn't a draft deal brought to the table last year rather than at the last minute to cause chaos?

Garghhhh!

the problem with this apathy is that a non-vote or a (almost) 'novelty' vote would retain the status quo. If you are not happy with how it is right now, you must surely do what you can to remove those currently in power.

[Stive Pesley]

22 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

If there was ever a time for a new political party to form and make a challenge for the big parties, it's now.

The Independent Group/CUK or whatever they are called are proving this is easier said than done. Forming a party requires

1) a LOT of money

2) well over 300 elected MPs if you want to gain power.

On point 1 - every donation CUK get will be under the spotlight, and so far it's all from big business - which is not a good look if you are claiming to be  doing things a new way

And on point 2  - it will take them a long time to get there, which is why they oppose a general election. Imagine calling your party "Change" and then refusing to support a general election though?!

The flaws of Party politics are in the spotlight right now. The defining issue of a generation is not party political and the two main parties are split. Hence this seemingly endless dance of votes going through parliament and failing.

 

HERE I AM BY THE WAY! HIYA @StringerBell MISSEDYABABES xxxx

 

[Wolfie]

4 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

The Independent Group/CUK or whatever they are called are proving this is easier said than done. Forming a party requires

2) well over 300 elected MPs if you want to gain power.

Or 10, if you're the DUP

Or 40 ish if you're the Lib Dems.

"Power" doesn't have to mean a majority to make a difference.

[Mostyn6]

4 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Or 10, if you're the DUP

Or 40 ish if you're the Lib Dems.

"Power" doesn't have to mean a majority to make a difference.

true, but you're then in bed with those that can ruin you. Look at the Lib Dems now, after being in cahoots last time. They will never recover from being Cameron's nodding dogs!

[TuffLuff]

2 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

The Independent Group/CUK or whatever they are called are proving this is easier said than done. Forming a party requires

1) a LOT of money

2) well over 300 elected MPs if you want to gain power.

On point 1 - every donation CUK get will be under the spotlight, and so far it's all from big business - which is not a good look if you are claiming to be  doing things a new way

And on point 2  - it will take them a long time to get there, which is why they oppose a general election. Imagine calling your party "Change" and then refusing to support a general election though?!

The flaws of Party politics are in the spotlight right now. The defining issue of a generation is not party political and the two main parties are split. Hence this seemingly endless dance of votes going through parliament and failing.

 

HERE I AM BY THE WAY! HIYA @StringerBell MISSEDYABABES xxxx

 

I blame Tony Blair, or at least the long term effects of New Labour which created a centre ground that was near impossible to appease because everyone can’t agree with everything. Which has then made people believe that their voice isn’t being heard and fall into the arms of the more extreme areas of political opinion on both sides (not that I think Corbyn is an extreme, but the anti-semitism is).

[jono]

12 hours ago, 1of4 said:

The next elections are in May for various local councils and we may also get one for our European Members of Parliament, depending on how brexit goes.

Going by the odds being offered by the bookies, they think there could even be a general election this year.

As we've only just voted in a general election in 2017 and aren't due another one till 2022. Wouldn't this be very undemocratic having another vote so soon after the last one, when the will of the people voted for our present government?

Will be interesting to see if any new parties emerge, also how the two main existing parties conduct their campaigns in any of the election that are held this year.

 

You can’t please all of the people all of the time. The point I make is not minutiae of maths; but that zealots on either side of the argument (the minority in both and all cases ) are dictating the agenda. It’s happening all to often these days. Vociferous Pressure groups are overwhelming common sense and compromise