Igorlegend11 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 50 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: So you're saying that any research & development projects in academia funded by EU grants are exclusively creating "non-thinkers"?? Is the alternative you envisage that we won't fund such projects at all - and therefore cannot create "non-thinkers" (because we won't create anything at all)? No I'm not saying that, if that helps you. And I've no problem with research being funded either. I'd suggest you consider the over inflated waste and salaries that the EU extra funding has given to threaders if the universities. That's whateads to cries of poverty in the university world, which is far from the truth. But they have been successful in making people think all University funding will end. Managed centrally in the UK it will be better justified. And we have an excellent record in funding Universities ourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 hours ago, ronnieronalde said: you NEED to report it to admin. I know for a fact they would put a stop to that kind of behaviour straight away. By closing down half the forum again, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Igorlegend11 said: I'd suggest you consider the over inflated waste and salaries that the EU extra funding has given to threaders if the universities. That's whateads to cries of poverty in the university world, which is far from the truth. But they have been successful in making people think all University funding will end. Managed centrally in the UK it will be better justified. And we have an excellent record in funding Universities ourself. I struggle to get my head around such insular thinking. I'm sorry. Maybe you don't really believe it but you just like winding people up? If we fund university research projects ourselves - then it's "an excellent record" but if that money comes via the EU then it's "over inflated waste"?! That don't make any sense. The worthfulness of the project doesn't depend on the source of the funding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 15 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I struggle to get my head around such insular thinking. I'm sorry. Maybe you don't really believe it but you just like winding people up? If we fund university research projects ourselves - then it's "an excellent record" but if that money comes via the EU then it's "over inflated waste"?! That don't make any sense. The worthfulness of the project doesn't depend on the source of the funding Agree. So no issue to be found with not funding Universities from the EU. Could nt summarise better myself And for the record, it was the total amount I would question that allows inflated salaries to be paid to non lecturing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I struggle to get my head around such insular thinking. I'm sorry. Maybe you don't really believe it but you just like winding people up? If we fund university research projects ourselves - then it's "an excellent record" but if that money comes via the EU then it's "over inflated waste"?! That don't make any sense. The worthfulness of the project doesn't depend on the source of the funding Nail. Head. Hit. I think he's trying to push people until they snap and get themselves banned or warned. Internet trolls, don't you just love them. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/may/30/augar-post-18-report-leaves-university-leaders-fearing-cuts University leaders said their sector could be pushed into “survival mode” if the funding cuts proposed by a new report into student financing become government policy. https://russellgroup.ac.uk/news/the-risks-of-research-funding-cuts/ Luckily, research and development now sits at the heart of the government’s industrial strategy, which aims to put the UK at the forefront of cutting-edge industries of the future, including clean technology and artificial intelligence. Yet there is inconsistency in Whitehall’s approach. While the left arm of government is urging universities to prioritise essential R&D, the right arm is making plans that could put the future of university research at risk. A review of the funding of post-18 education, commissioned by the prime minister, is currently underway. The widely anticipated outcome is a cut in tuition fees. As you might expect, this has prompted some debate on the possible consequences for teaching, staff redundancies and course closures. Some universities may even be forced over the brink and student places will be limited. Then further down in the article. This would be a remarkable own goal. More than half of business investment in R&D in this country comes from overseas companies moving here to work with our world-class universities. Take AstraZeneca, which is moving its global headquarters to Cambridge to be next to the university. If the research generated by our universities goes into decline, these companies will go elsewhere, taking their vital investment with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, McRainy said: By closing down half the forum again, probably. I'm still waiting for @Igorlegend11 to confirm that he has indeed been attacked and intimated by private messages. I'm staggered by that. Admin have a tough job, even I've got to admit that, it can't always be easy to sort out arguments between total strangers on the internet and I'm starting to understand why they must sometimes think duck it, let's just get rid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 A trade deal, for now, in all honesty, is a bad idea. Trade deals tend to benefit one or two big businesses in every sector e.g. the CBI in this scenario. What we have now with the EU is skewed. Let's not be silly and fall for what it says on the package...being members of this custom union. It's still detrimental. We need to push for full and open free trade with as many nations as possible. Any country that wants preferencial treatment should be put to the back of the queue ? Do some of you seriously not understand the advantages of having open and free trade with emerging and '3rd world' countries. I can explain it to you in a paragraph if you like ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Uptherams said: A trade deal, for now, in all honesty, is a bad idea. Trade deals tend to benefit one or two big businesses in every sector e.g. the CBI in this scenario. What we have now with the EU is skewed. Let's not be silly and fall for what it says on the package...being members of this custom union. It's still detrimental. We need to push for full and open free trade with as many nations as possible. Any country that wants preferencial treatment should be put to the back of the queue ? Do some of you seriously not understand the advantages of having open and free trade with emerging and '3rd world' countries. I can explain it to you in a paragraph if you like ???? I'd love if it you did. Being serious as well. I'm always keen to see somebody else's explanation of something I'm struggling to understand Is it just as simple as saying we'd like a free trade deal with you on our terms or you can duck off to the back of the queue with the rest of them? Sign here. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 40 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I struggle to get my head around such insular thinking. I'm sorry. Maybe you don't really believe it but you just like winding people up? If we fund university research projects ourselves - then it's "an excellent record" but if that money comes via the EU then it's "over inflated waste"?! That don't make any sense. The worthfulness of the project doesn't depend on the source of the funding I do believe what I write. But I do often wonder, like you, when people refuse to respond to counter points whether they truly believed their point of view. EU Army being a case in point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Got to look forward to a free trade deal with a 3rd world country! Cheap gruel for EVERYONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Got to look forward to a free trade deal with a 3rd world country! Cheap gruel for EVERYONE! It's also simple to trade with the EU tariff free. Just as the UK outlined we would not out tariffs in anything the EU send in to the UK. Just needs the EU to rexiorocatw. And they can still talk trade tariffs thereafter, if they want to start to be more protectionist to certain EU industries and products. That would be odd to do after all these years of no tariffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: I'd love if it you did. Being serious as well. I'm always keen to see somebody else's explanation of something I'm struggling to understand Is it just as simple as saying we'd like a free trade deal with you on our terms or you can duck off to the back of the queue with the rest of them? Sign here. Cheers. So first, you look at our market. The more companies and people and countries that can access it and sell to it, the better. Consumers end up with more choice. It also means more competition, so lower prices overall. As the world economy is vastly larger than our own. This along with lower prices, due to less tariffs. In order to sell to and in this country these people and companies will require a multitude of services. Jobs created in the UK. For example, marketing, advertising, logistics, banking and financial services. Many of these companies will then require these same services to grow their businesses in other markets. Jobs will be lost in the UK too. But take the banking sector, people don't seem to care about all those job loses. They love online banking and contactless payment. Times change, jobs in sectors come and go. Are we to shed a tear over all of those coal mining jobs that have been lost? Even though eco warriors don't actually care, only when it benefits them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 35 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: EU Army being a case in point Explain to me how that would be a bad thing? You know that it goes beyond boots on the ground? It's about sharing intelligence, being as the next war is currently being fought on the internet. The UK is incapable of 'standing up to' Russia and China by itself, yes, we are part of NATO, or do you think we should pull out of that as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, McRamFan said: Explain to me how that would be a bad thing? You know that it goes beyond boots on the ground? It's about sharing intelligence, being as the next war is currently being fought on the internet. The UK is incapable of 'standing up to' Russia and China by itself, yes, we are part of NATO, or do you think we should pull out of that as well? I can't think of a single positive reason, but am happy to hear some positives. Intelligence is already shared btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: Got to look forward to a free trade deal with a 3rd world country! Cheap gruel for EVERYONE! Yeah because food and natural resources are things we don't want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 43 minutes ago, Uptherams said: So first, you look at our market. The more companies and people and countries that can access it and sell to it, the better. Consumers end up with more choice. It also means more competition, so lower prices overall. As the world economy is vastly larger than our own. This along with lower prices, due to less tariffs. Except to trade on WTO terms we need to agree a schedule for the thousands of items being traded with the other 163 WTO member states - have we done that? The last I heard we were struggling as not all countries were happy with the draft and they have also blocked us from just using our existing EU schedule. Then you also have the hundreds of statutes that need to be amended to operate under whatever (eventually) gets agreed. So whilst your optimism is as charming as ever - you're looking at a fantasy position we arrive at in the future. Even ardent brexiteers admit that it could take years and we'd face an unprecedented recession in the meantime. You may think that is "worth it"? Essentially if a no-deal brexit is so great then why did no one in the leave campaign advocate for it during the referendum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Essentially if a no-deal brexit is so great then why did no one in the leave campaign advocate for it during the referendum? You aren't being serious are you? Because stuff like that isn't about the substance. Headlines would be Racist Nigel Farage doesn't want to trade with the EU, etc. Shitty people will just distort the truth and reality. Even now, remainers are being disingenuous and are fine with their use of language. Implying no deal means no trade whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Except to trade on WTO terms we need to agree a schedule for the thousands of items being traded with the other 163 WTO member states - have we done that? The last I heard we were struggling as not all countries were happy with the draft and they have also blocked us from just using our existing EU schedule. Then you also have the hundreds of statutes that need to be amended to operate under whatever (eventually) gets agreed. So whilst your optimism is as charming as ever - you're looking at a fantasy position we arrive at in the future. Even ardent brexiteers admit that it could take years and we'd face an unprecedented recession in the meantime. You may think that is "worth it"? Essentially if a no-deal brexit is so great then why did no one in the leave campaign advocate for it during the referendum? Sigh. Ok, once more again with feeling....I'll explain. We cannot agree a trade deal until we leave. That was always known. It's an odd EU rule attached to the exit rules to escape the federal state So....once we agree terms of our departure, then trade talks commence. IF the EU agree to our leaving, IE not a hard brexit they will leave status quo in place until a trade deal is agreed. IF we leave without an agreement to leave, then the UK have said no tariffs to be placed on any EU imports and it would be highly sensible for the EU to do the same. The EU may decide to place all sorts of tariffs on the 1st November. But if they are sensibke and think of business across the whole of Europe they won't envoke a tariff regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 You may wonder what does the return of Chris Martin and gorgious George in a Derby shirt has got to with Brexit and the EU... Whilst keeping an eye on the friendly last night I thought I would look at the online application for settled status in the UK for EU citizens. It was a breeze, done and dusted well before Chris and George came on for the second half. As long as you've got a passport with a chip in it, a phone to run the app (Android only!), the process is one of the most straight forward and painless dealings I have had with the administration anywhere. It left me wondering how many of those doom predictions or things that people think will just grind to a halt will actually happen. Fully aware that some of the challenges ahead will require a bit more than an app to solve very complex issues but I never thought I would be able to get the application complete with identity and residency checks from home whilst watching football at 11pm! Brexit is a bit like a divorce, never easy. As I see it, Ian Holloway style, Britain is leaving an average looking bird to look elsewhere, not a stunner, nags a bit, got a few pounds on the hips etc... but not been that bad over the 40 years+ of marriage. Trying to get some of the stunning looking ladies in the taxi (which is what is being promised by some) on the other hand is not going to be easy. I am not convinced they can be trusted to be great partners either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Igorlegend11 said: I can't think of a single positive reason, but am happy to hear some positives. Intelligence is already shared btw. It won't be post brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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