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The Politics Thread 2019

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27 minutes ago, sheeponacid said:

Didn’t expect any cages for broilers, but you do pleasantly surprise me that you managing to keep antibiotics out of them...What type & brand of food are they getting. 

I think it is formulated in house. To be honest I don't know - I'm just reading what it says on the main Web page under chicken. I work in IT. The closest I get to a chicken is delivering a PC to a farm, or trying a free sample from new product development. 

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Posted (edited)

https://order-order.com/2019/07/10/john-major-prorogued-parliament-1997-avoid-cash-questions-scrutiny/

Fascinating read....John Major himself prorogued Parliament to avoid answering questions in the 1997

And proroging wouldn’t work as a mechanism to deliver a No Deal Brexit IF MPs hadn’t already voted for No Deal a year ago. 

It's the flip flopping and changing of minds of MP's that's the real issue 

Edited by Igorlegend11

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On 08/07/2019 at 23:44, Igorlegend11 said:

It's an outrageous leak.  Could have been very damaging for the UK.  Although he was merely performing his job, I'd expect the Ambassador to resign ( to allow US/UK relations and discussions to continue )

The leak does need ascertaining and prosecuting as it's a risk to the while UK 

The Ambassador will certainly get replaced by the new PM.  ( I reiterate the ambassador did nothing wrong. He needs to provide honest feedback to the UK ) 

I can't see the job being given to Farage for one minute.  He's more likely to be in the UK/EU trade talks 

How do you replace an incumbant ambassador? Maybe by sacking them

On 09/07/2019 at 00:10, 1of4 said:

Glad to see that you think our ambassador was merely doing his job of telling our government, something most of the world already know, that Trump is an inept, insecure and incompetent buffoon.

If he was merely doing his job and had done nothing wrong. Why does he need to resign?

 

On 09/07/2019 at 00:29, Igorlegend11 said:

Because if the USA government are not going to speak to him it's pretty pointless having an Ambassador in the USA.   

The most powerful country are refusing to talk to him, and it's his job to liaise with the USA government.  He really will be struggling to fulfill his role. And it's such an important role.

Hence how important it is to find out how his emails got leaked and by whom. 

As you didn't deny the ambassador had done nothing wrong. You then go on to say he'd struggle to fulfill his job.

What happens when someone is unable to do their job? They get sacked.

2 hours ago, Igorlegend11 said:

I note you never justified your false claim I wanted the Ambassador sacked.  A sad reflection on people's inability to read correctly a mere couple of para graphs   ( theres some scary facts that we now read in an F shape on electronic devices and skim rather than assimilate written words so you are far from alone ) 

I don't seek nor expect any retraction, but it's a sad state when people can read and fail to take on board simple viewpoints without totally getting them wrong.

At no point did I ever in two small lists on here say I wanted the Ambassador sacked 

I did predict he would resign, and today he has indeed resigned.

To help you, when people write a commentary and prediction on topical current affairs, it is not necessarily the case that is their wish.  Quite often the opposite 

A wearher forecaster predicting rain, does not mean he wishes to see rain fall.

As you never replied to my earlier explanation to your untrue assertions above I feel obliged to explain once again in simpler terms now the news item is again topical. 

So after reading your posts or two small lists as you have written, you really do need to get a better translation app, the only conclusion I could arrive at is that you wanted him sacked.

As for him resigning. Woo-Hoo you got something right. It was a shame he had no choice after what Johnson had said on the subject. Where at the moment he was getting the support of our present PM. He knew that he would lose that backing once Johnson took office. So why wait for the inevitable.

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2 hours ago, 1of4 said:

How do you replace an incumbant ambassador? Maybe by sacking them

 

As you didn't deny the ambassador had done nothing wrong. You then go on to say he'd struggle to fulfill his job.

What happens when someone is unable to do their job? They get sacked.

So after reading your posts or two small lists as you have written, you really do need to get a better translation app, the only conclusion I could arrive at is that you wanted him sacked.

As for him resigning. Woo-Hoo you got something right. It was a shame he had no choice after what Johnson had said on the subject. Where at the moment he was getting the support of our present PM. He knew that he would lose that backing once Johnson took office. So why wait for the inevitable.

Hilarious. You read my observations of what I believed would happen.   You STILL incorrectly interpret my words to mean I wanted him sacked 

I'd like to think I'm surprised that you can't understand simple things, but frankly I'm not.  You simply can't accept that I never wanted him sacked, and more importantly you can't accept that I didn't say I wanted him sacked.

Glad you took trouble to quote me again and show readers that you can't read and assimilate and can't then even reflect and accept the fact is I never ever once said I wanted him sacked.  

That says an awful lot about yourself and also how biased you are to posters you disagree with, you'll actually still try and defend your incorrect assertion I wanted him sacked.  

And you and Ronnie  think leave voters are stupid ....hmmm

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2 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said:

Hilarious. You read my observations of what I believed would happen.   You STILL incorrectly interpret my words to mean I wanted him sacked 

I'd like to think I'm surprised that you can't understand simple things, but frankly I'm not.  You simply can't accept that I never wanted him sacked, and more importantly you can't accept that I didn't say I wanted him sacked.

Glad you took trouble to quote me again and show readers that you can't read and assimilate and can't then even reflect and accept the fact is I never ever once said I wanted him sacked.  

That says an awful lot about yourself and also how biased you are to posters you disagree with, you'll actually still try and defend your incorrect assertion I wanted him sacked.  

And you and Ronnie  think leave voters are stupid ....hmmm

Glad to see you agree with one of my old posts from a couple of years ago. Where I called myself a stupid old git. 

Looks as if your on a bit of a run. Two things right. 

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12 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said:

Hilarious. You read my observations of what I believed would happen.   You STILL incorrectly interpret my words to mean I wanted him sacked 

I'd like to think I'm surprised that you can't understand simple things, but frankly I'm not.  You simply can't accept that I never wanted him sacked, and more importantly you can't accept that I didn't say I wanted him sacked.

Glad you took trouble to quote me again and show readers that you can't read and assimilate and can't then even reflect and accept the fact is I never ever once said I wanted him sacked.  

That says an awful lot about yourself and also how biased you are to posters you disagree with, you'll actually still try and defend your incorrect assertion I wanted him sacked.  

And you and Ronnie  think leave voters are stupid ....hmmm

I think that you were misled - basically you were lied to, and you will never change your mind because you don't want to admit that you were fooled by those lies. When we leave on October 31 and it is so obviously horrible, you will still be in denial, and you will blame those who said that this whole thing was a stupid exercise in self-flagellation from the start because Remainers '...didn't get behind Brexit' or some such nonsense.

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22 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said:

Hilarious. You read my observations of what I believed would happen.   You STILL incorrectly interpret my words to mean I wanted him sacked 

I'd like to think I'm surprised that you can't understand simple things, but frankly I'm not.  You simply can't accept that I never wanted him sacked, and more importantly you can't accept that I didn't say I wanted him sacked.

Glad you took trouble to quote me again and show readers that you can't read and assimilate and can't then even reflect and accept the fact is I never ever once said I wanted him sacked.  

That says an awful lot about yourself and also how biased you are to posters you disagree with, you'll actually still try and defend your incorrect assertion I wanted him sacked.  

And you and Ronnie  think leave voters are stupid ....hmmm

Not all of them are stupid.

I'd think someone was stupid if they wanted to leave but didn't bother to vote first time around but then spent their entire evening for ten days telling everyone else they're stupid and can't read or assimilate information.

I'd think someone like that was pretty stupid AND incredibly condescending. Every one of your recent posts have been to attack someone's intelligence level.

Keep pushing for that argument you so desperately seem to be trying to provoke.

 

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22 minutes ago, eddie said:

I think that you were misled - basically you were lied to, and you will never change your mind because you don't want to admit that you were fooled by those lies. When we leave on October 31 and it is so obviously horrible, you will still be in denial, and you will blame those who said that this whole thing was a stupid exercise in self-flagellation from the start because Remainers '...didn't get behind Brexit' or some such nonsense.

Gosh....I bet you remainers really miss not being part of the EU army that was merely a fiction of the leave supporters imagination.  Then in here various posters wonder what's wrong with an EU army. ...funny old world

Oh, and the lie that we'd head into recession for merely voting leave never gets accepted as wrong either.  Which is fine.   Denial is cool

Regards leaving soon, we have no idea what the trade deal nor what the real terms of departure will be until after we've left.   There certainly won't be an Irish manned border crossing as of 31st October.  It will all be negotiated after 31st October as the EU gets a little nervous about being £39bn short of funds 

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1 hour ago, eddie said:

I think that you were misled - basically you were lied to, and you will never change your mind because you don't want to admit that you were fooled by those lies. When we leave on October 31 and it is so obviously horrible, you will still be in denial, and you will blame those who said that this whole thing was a stupid exercise in self-flagellation from the start because Remainers '...didn't get behind Brexit' or some such nonsense.

And for the record I would nt arrive at my views from listening to politicians as that would be silly.  History, past actual events much better help one shape an opinion on crucial seminal matters 

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7 hours ago, Igorlegend11 said:

 

Oh, and the lie that we'd head into recession for merely voting leave never gets accepted as wrong either.  Which is fine.   Denial is cool

 

Can I ask which Industry you belong to? 

Im in construction and since the turn of the year all the big players have made a load of redundancies. There is a definate slowdown in the market and extreme nervousness regarding the market in the next 1 to 2 years, to the extent that we are looking at potentially cutting costs again very soon.

Others in the industry will be doing the same. 

The main reason for this is lack of Government spending. 

Short term government market growth forecasts are constantly being revised downwards. 

Also, we are finding that our Global corporate owners are becoming reluctant to invest in us due to the uncertainty. 

Im sorry, but all of the above can be directly linked to Brexit, and the shambles since the vote. 

Its having a devastating effect on families across the country. Uncertainty, redundancy, nervousness. 

If you have been sheltered from this then I can see why youve posted your statement above,  but trust me, for some people the leave vote has had a horrible effect on their lives. 

 

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8 hours ago, eddie said:

I think that you were misled - basically you were lied to, and you will never change your mind because you don't want to admit that you were fooled by those lies

What part of, I've been critical of the EU for forty years and didn't take any notice of the referendum campaigns, don't you understand?

You haven't responded to any of the reasoning behind these criticisms that I, and others, have spelled out over many pages. Are you incapable of engaging with an argument, or is your sole raison d'etre trying to appear superior to others by repeatedly insulting their intelligence? Either way, it's extremely tiresome. 

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43 minutes ago, CWC1983 said:

Can I ask which Industry you belong to? 

Im in construction and since the turn of the year all the big players have made a load of redundancies. There is a definate slowdown in the market and extreme nervousness regarding the market in the next 1 to 2 years, to the extent that we are looking at potentially cutting costs again very soon.

Others in the industry will be doing the same. 

The main reason for this is lack of Government spending. 

Short term government market growth forecasts are constantly being revised downwards. 

Also, we are finding that our Global corporate owners are becoming reluctant to invest in us due to the uncertainty. 

Im sorry, but all of the above can be directly linked to Brexit, and the shambles since the vote. 

Its having a devastating effect on families across the country. Uncertainty, redundancy, nervousness. 

If you have been sheltered from this then I can see why youve posted your statement above,  but trust me, for some people the leave vote has had a horrible effect on their lives. 

 

We certainly have nt grown as much due to uncertainty.  The cure for uncertainty is to get on with Brexit, and force the EU into sensible practical discussions with their large trading partner, namely ourselves. 

The alternative, of ending democracy due to some short term economic uncertainty is far far worse in my opinion, and history will show this.

The EU have been hell bent on getting us to remain and their negotiation to date has been focused solely on that.  Actually leaving will lead to much calmer and realistic progressive negotiations. 

I've used the Irish border as an example of seeing how easy a major issue is to solve if brexit actually happens and realism and compromise commence 

Sadly I won't give away personal details anymore having been attacked and intimidated directly in a number of messages from a poster. I have suffered financially considerably but history shows me to give up democracy and go against what 17m voters voted for is simply wrong and if we stopped sympathising with the EU position, looked entirely after our own interests ( which includes some compromises ) things will progress.  Business is desperate to know what the final trade deal will look like. Which products will the EU out tariffs on that we sell into the EU. Sadly the EU refuse to talk trade with us until we actually leave. 

To enact actually leaving it's sad that it requires someone like Boris who won't be much good imho for much else thereafter, unless his cabinet are strong and be the doers as opposed to Boris post brexit.   But Boris is focused on getting us out. He's clear.  Yet the EU still sadly won't believe Boris as so many people on the remain side refuse to let us negotiate sensibly as they attempt to place many restrictions on the UK side ( eg trying to block a no deal brexit merely makes the EU offer a bad deal in hope we remain ) 

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41 minutes ago, McRainy said:

What part of, I've been critical of the EU for forty years and didn't take any notice of the referendum campaigns, don't you understand?

You haven't responded to any of the reasoning behind these criticisms that I, and others, have spelled out over many pages. Are you incapable of engaging with an argument, or is your sole raison d'etre trying to appear superior to others by repeatedly insulting their intelligence? Either way, it's extremely tiresome. 

Fundamental principles, knowledge and context of history are indeed sadly missing nowadays.  We joined EU to trade.  The project became a mission to have a national anthem, join the UN security council and have it's own army.

It's not surprising we voted to leave when looked at simplistically. The EU leaders still think a future generation will take us back into Europe and openly say this. As opposed to just letting and accepting fact we are leaving. Giving the extension, merely in the hope the WA would finally be accepted by the UK was simply a waste of time and has sadly increased uncertainty.

The Universities found lots of funding from the EU and have created a new generation of non thinkers.  

I agree with your post, but I don't find it tiresome people can't debate and discuss issues, I personally find it a fascinating insight into human intelligence. 

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17 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said:

To enact actually leaving it's sad that it requires someone like Boris who won't be much good imho for much else thereafter, unless his cabinet are strong and be the doers as opposed to Boris post brexit.   But Boris is focused on getting us out. He's clear.  Yet the EU still sadly won't believe Boris as so many people on the remain side refuse to let us negotiate sensibly as they attempt to place many restrictions on the UK side ( eg trying to block a no deal brexit merely makes the EU offer a bad deal in hope we remain ) 

Is that the same Boris who wrote two speeches, and decided at the last minute which way the wind was blowing?

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9 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Is that the same Boris who wrote two speeches, and decided at the last minute which way the wind was blowing?

Yes.   He is alleged by two posters on here to have written two speeches so he was very open minded and gave it great thought and approached it from the middle of the debate.    I don't logically see any issue in that.

Having made his choice ( following a dismal offer from the EU to the UK made to Cameron in late 2015 ) he has stick to it and explained it.    His choice was routed in history and democracy.

And, to clarify the wind was blowing in the direction of remain as the whole state, bank of England, all major political parties supported remain 

 

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1 hour ago, Igorlegend11 said:

The Universities found lots of funding from the EU and have created a new generation of non thinkers

So you're saying that any research & development projects in academia funded by EU grants are exclusively creating "non-thinkers"??

Is the alternative you envisage that we won't fund such projects at all - and therefore cannot create "non-thinkers" (because we won't create anything at all)?

 

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1 hour ago, Igorlegend11 said:

We certainly have nt grown as much due to uncertainty.  The cure for uncertainty is to get on with Brexit, and force the EU into sensible practical discussions with their large trading partner, namely ourselves. 

The alternative, of ending democracy due to some short term economic uncertainty is far far worse in my opinion, and history will show this.

The EU have been hell bent on getting us to remain and their negotiation to date has been focused solely on that.  Actually leaving will lead to much calmer and realistic progressive negotiations. 

I've used the Irish border as an example of seeing how easy a major issue is to solve if brexit actually happens and realism and compromise commence 

Sadly I won't give away personal details anymore having been attacked and intimidated directly in a number of messages from a poster. I have suffered financially considerably but history shows me to give up democracy and go against what 17m voters voted for is simply wrong and if we stopped sympathising with the EU position, looked entirely after our own interests ( which includes some compromises ) things will progress.  Business is desperate to know what the final trade deal will look like. Which products will the EU out tariffs on that we sell into the EU. Sadly the EU refuse to talk trade with us until we actually leave. 

To enact actually leaving it's sad that it requires someone like Boris who won't be much good imho for much else thereafter, unless his cabinet are strong and be the doers as opposed to Boris post brexit.   But Boris is focused on getting us out. He's clear.  Yet the EU still sadly won't believe Boris as so many people on the remain side refuse to let us negotiate sensibly as they attempt to place many restrictions on the UK side ( eg trying to block a no deal brexit merely makes the EU offer a bad deal in hope we remain ) 

Whoever it is who is doing that is absolutely bang out of order. Do you mean someone is sending you private messages outside of this thread to attack and intimidate you?

Christ that's wrong and bad. Have you reported it and them to admin?

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1 hour ago, Igorlegend11 said:

 

Sadly I won't give away personal details anymore having been attacked and intimidated directly in a number of messages from a poster. 

Fair enough, appreciate that. 👍

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3 minutes ago, CWC1983 said:

Fair enough, appreciate that. 👍

I find it staggering, upsetting and worrying that someone is sending him private messages and would love to see more forum members come out and post that it's wrong and needs to be stopped pal.

I think whoever it is who is doing it needs to see that the forum community won't tolerate that kind of response to what is basically a set of folk chatting baalocks on the internet.

I've given my name out, I've posted videos, I've told folk where I live so they know what I look like and NOT ONCE in all of my time on here has anyone ever sent me an intimidating or threatening private message and if they did I'd be both pissed off and probably a little bit frightened.

There is no way @Igorlegend11 should have to worry about that kind of thing just because he has views that some people disagree with. Igor, you NEED to report it to admin. I know for a fact they would put a stop to that kind of behaviour straight away.

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