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The Politics Thread 2019

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10 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

We COULD get our own house in order easily enough wihout leaving

As long as that doesn't involve any kind of state intervention which intereferes with market forces and profitability, like nationalising utilities and public transport.

The NHS is also going to be harder to defend in the EU than out of it, because it will be seen as a protected market, and corporations will have a legal right to compete in it.

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eddie
57 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Let's see what happens, then maybe we try a commie 😂

Trouble these days is that politics is packed full of people who don't just oppose, but try to block everything their 'opponent' wants to change or implement. 

I do 100% agree with you there.

I have also never thought that Corbyn was the answer to any question that wasn't asking about how to sit on a fence.

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51 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I'm aware I'm out of my depth and simplifying here, it makes me want to go back and finish GCSE Economics, I once got 20 out of 20 for an essay on price elasticity of demand so I think i'm a genius still 😉

I don't want to take up your time but if you have time to educate a simple boy, I'd love it.

Who's benefiting from those pension funds? We've got 1.9m pensioners living below the poverty line.

Anyone with a private pension. it's now compulsary for almost all companies to offer a private pension scheme to their employees. So I'm guessing that's not many of the 1.9m you mention, who (I assume) will be living on pretty much state pension only.

51 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Do you mean it benefits their shareholders pensions or am I missing the bigger picture? How many shareholders does the biggest profit maker 3i have? 

They paid a 37p dividend last year on ordinary shares with a value of 815p (up from 724p year ending 31st March 2018).

Sorry I'm at work, so don't have much time to research but I know that most of the main shareholders in the largest defence company (BAE Systems) are financial institutions. Those dividends will therefore increase the pension funds of us investors

51 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

The CEO Simon Burrows was paid £6,847,000 in 2018.

I'm trying to find the salaries of the other 4 "Key" executives, Funnily enough it's not in their annual report

The pay of top bosses is ridiculous and I agree with those who say there needs to be a cap on their salaries (such as a multiple of the lowest paid employee).

51 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I'm reading with interest about the laffer curve right now. Which meant 42 of the FTSE top 100 paid less than 20% corporation tax and 11 paying less than 10%. I'll have more of a clue of the "legal" tax breaks which allow firms to pay less than 20% corporation tax due to legitimate international business interests.

duck me, they don't use much plain english do they?

The report I'm reading (100 odd pages) does suggest conspiracy theorists will be disappointed. Ah well.

 

I'm not an expert on tax law but I do know that there are good reasons why a lot of companies don't pay the headline 20% tax. The main one I come across is tax breaks for R&D spending - which IMO does need to be encouraged if we're going to try and stay ahead of the global competition.

Of course there are also less good ways that companies avoid tax.....

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24 minutes ago, eddie said:

I do 100% agree with you there.

I have also never thought that Corbyn was the answer to any question that wasn't asking about how to sit on a fence.

Yay 😁 people have got to be allowed to do some stuff, after all, it can be reversed the following election. Otherwise we get basically nothing politics which we have had for too long. Cameron didn't mean for all of this, but you have to give him some credit for the fact that his decision will allow for substantial change. 

 

McDonald's wants to spend up to half a trillion dollars and yet Boris will get so much poo from the people who want to spend this money....just for £20bn for a bridge or something. 

Edited by Uptherams

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1 hour ago, McRainy said:

The NHS is also going to be harder to defend in the EU than out of it, because it will be seen as a protected market, and corporations will have a legal right to compete in it.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/how-might-brexit-affect-the-nhs/

In this way, EU law protects the special features of national health systems. All European health systems are based on equality of access according to medical need, and cross-subsidisation of poorer and less healthy people, by wealthier, healthier people, through taxation or social insurance. How to do that is a national choice.

Leaving the EU removes that protection, please go and talk to the front line  staff and their view of Brexit.  This brexit BS has crippled the NHS in certain areas of the UK.

 

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29 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

Anyone with a private pension. it's now compulsary for almost all companies to offer a private pension scheme to their employees. So I'm guessing that's not many of the 1.9m you mention, who (I assume) will be living on pretty much state pension only.

Sorry I'm at work, so don't have much time to research but I know that most of the main shareholders in the largest defence company (BAE Systems) are financial institutions. Those dividends will therefore increase the pension funds of us investors

The pay of top bosses is ridiculous and I agree with those who say there needs to be a cap on their salaries (such as a multiple of the lowest paid employee).

I'm not an expert on tax law but I do know that there are good reasons why a lot of companies don't pay the headline 20% tax. The main one I come across is tax breaks for R&D spending - which IMO does need to be encouraged if we're going to try and stay ahead of the global competition.

Of course there are also less good ways that companies avoid tax.....

Yeah, I thought you might mean that, the reason I'm so anti or dis-trusting of those is companies very often "sell" the pension scheme to another provider meaning their employees have to transfer their pot, usually resulting in transfer and admin fees and a reduced final pot. 

I've had some very pissed off friends lately. 

That's not to mention these days the work force is so fluid that you rarely see people stay at one firm for long enough to fully take advantage. Again moving from one firm to another and transferring your pot causes reduction, not to mention if you're unfortunate to have to "cash out" early.

Interesting article from the FT which is a fairly trustworthy source on matter of finance.

https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2019/01/02/uk-private-pensions-deficit-more-than-doubles/

The shortfall of all UK private defined benefit (DB) schemes has jumped by £59bn in one month, to £107bn at the end of December, according to data from JLT Employee Benefits.

At the end of November, the total deficit stood at £48bn, while at the end of December last year it reached £119bn.

The funding level of these pension funds is now at 93 per cent, which compares with 97 per cent in the previous month.

FTSE 100 companies saw scheme deficits increase by £19bn to £20bn, while in the FTSE 350 the increase was £23bn to £29bn.

The companies who make that massive profit per employee I was waffling about earlier? They've got a deficit of 20 BILLION QUID.

Still the Executive Board  and board of directors will be fine, I'm sure.

Edited by ronnieronalde

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2 hours ago, McRamFan said:

Leaving the EU removes that protection,

Not really. EU 'protection' is currently just an option to exclude bodies like the NHS from deals like TTIP. It's a legal minefield which certainly hasn't been clearly defined. 

We will always be beholden to the EU to negotiate deals on our behalf, and given that they are not subject to democratic scrutiny, and that their primary remit is profit for private corporations, I have no faith that the NHS would be safe.

I simply don't think that this power to determine the future of the NHS should be handed over to a body like the EU Commission. 

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On 30/06/2019 at 16:31, GboroRam said:

I do the IT, so I rarely get to touch the products. We produce around 5m chicken per week, all UK reared. However there's plenty of EU involvement. The manufacturers of the equipment are in a few EU countries, Holland and Italy make a lot of our kit. The actual birds are mostly sold in the UK, so I don't feel hugely at risk personally. But if Brexit does cause a recession of the size predicted, I don't know what the effect to the business will be. Customers will be buying less chicken, the supermarkets will reduce their orders and we will cut production. The need for staff will reduce. Jobs will go - first directly with the production of chicken, then to ancillary departments like IT. 

https://www.poultryworld.net/Health/Articles/2019/4/Germany-concerned-about-antibiotic-levels-in-poultry-sector-417344E/

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/farm-animals/chickens/meat-chickens/

https://www.animalaid.org.uk/the-issues/our-campaigns/animal-farming/suffering-farmed-chickens/

https://www.eurogroupforanimals.org/european-parliaments-plenary-urges-commission-to-improve-broiler-chicken-welfare-and-public-health

https://www.eurogroupforanimals.org/vast-majority-of-eu-citizens-call-for-better-broiler-chicken-welfare

Thanks for the reply Gboro... are you happy to work in, & support this type of, intensive farming ? 

If you are, fair enough, it’s each to their own set of ethics...for me I’ve  always said that if I had to treat livestock the way intensive farming treated chickens, pigs, turkeys etc then it’s time to jack it in...yes we kill animals for food but surely there’s has to be decency shown to them whilst their alive.

Some on here talk about the chlorine washed chickens in the USA, but seem quite happy to tuck into 6 week old Frankenstein broiler poultry stuffed full of antibiotics... which as we both know are needed to control the potential for disease due to their poor living conditions ....safe to eat, hmm really??? Are you sure they’re not helping the rise of superbugs? There’s many who disagree with you. The report from Germany is an interesting quick read.

I think that the animal aid & other compassion in farming reports, say it all about the intensive broiler & caged chicken industries in the EU. An industry built on what many of us see as an abuse of animals to provide cheap unhealthy meat, & eggs....although many DCFC remainers sadly see it as an industry to wax lyrical about....maybe I’m wrong & their always posting their objections to it?

Then again some of these posters are the same people that think battery farms were abolished in 2012. Which must mean, some believe that the changes to these caged birds living conditions, by affording them an area the size of an A4 sheet of paper + shared postcard space, is fair enough? really... Still sounds pretty much like rebranded battery farming to me, but hey ho.

Yes the EUs models are better than the USAs models of intensive farming, but this doesn’t make the EU models any less vile in my opinion. The last two reports show thankfully that although the everyday DCFC remainer may wax lyrical about our intensive chickens, most other compassionate people, still find it abhorrent....might be why your struggling for staff?

EU intensive chickens, some see them as finger licking abused..but no chlorine means others see them as pure clucking Disney ...still, it’s all a matter of opinion eh?

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14 minutes ago, sheeponacid said:

Thanks for the reply Gboro... are you happy to work in, & support this type of, intensive farming ? 

If you are, fair enough, it’s each to their own set of ethics...

 

That's got to be one of the most condescending pieces of text I've read on here.

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On 30/05/2019 at 13:42, Curtains said:

Corby by thinks the country is in a right mess.

Just listen to PMQs

Improving summers is that down to pollution and global warming maybe the EU can sort it out then. 

Corby is a bit of a mess. The scurge of Northamptonshire.

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5 hours ago, Uptherams said:

Let's see what happens, then maybe we try a commie 😂

Trouble these days is that politics is packed full of people who don't just oppose, but try to block everything their 'opponent' wants to change or implement. 

You are describing the liberals. Want to do so much ....yet do nothing of any consequence.  They don't even have principles they stick to so they are incredibly hard to believe .

Wanted a referendum for years.  Got into power and forgot about having a referendum!  Then we had a referendum after they left power.    They never liked the result so they want another until their way is chosen.  Which means over ten years of campaigning for something they never really believed in nor even agreed with.   That they avoid scrutiny is admittedly due to their irrelevant size 

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14 hours ago, Highgate said:

Surely if there was a second referendum on No Deal/ Remain for example, Leave voters couldn't resist the opportunity to vote for the Brexit they want. You would be so close....  There is no way parliament would refuse to vote through a No Deal Brexit if the population votes clearly for precisely that sort of Brexit (and that's the crucial part).  There would be no negotiations with Europe to worry about so it would be a done deal.  And you are saying that people who dearly wish for Brexit would rather sit on the sidelines in protest, rather than step up at the crucial moment and make it happen?

Or is it because they feel that a No Deal Brexit would never win a second referendum vs Remain and by not voting 'in protest' they could de-legitimize the Second Referendum ?

Hmm i think that your fully aware that many who voted leave are those that have tended not to vote in the past...those disillusioned by a political system that doesn’t care about them & doesn’t represent them..

IDS hit the nail on the head when he said at around midnight on referendum night...(roughly), that the forgotten estates  & those who didn’t tend to come out to vote, had come out to vote in force, meaning that things could get very interesting as the night went on.

People like myself & others decided to vote that night when we normally never bother to , because we were told it was a one off vote & that every vote mattered. That the government would honour what we voted for.

Id say a 2 million plus people who up until that night never usually voted, did so because they thought that their voices would be heard...But you feign surprise that after yet again having their voice betrayed. That these same people might in all probability not raise themselves to yet again, put their trust in a parliament that had once again been proven not represent them, & vote ...yeah righto...I think your far cleverer than that...you know full well that most wouldn’t make the effort again to vote in the referendum that turned into the onlyeverendum when the result is what a remain parliament wanted.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

That's got to be one of the most condescending pieces of text I've read on here.

Glad it stood out, but which factual bits & reports did you disagree with?

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55 minutes ago, sheeponacid said:

Hmm i think that your fully aware that many who voted leave are those that have tended not to vote in the past...those disillusioned by a political system that doesn’t care about them & doesn’t represent them..

IDS hit the nail on the head when he said at around midnight on referendum night...(roughly), that the forgotten estates  & those who didn’t tend to come out to vote, had come out to vote in force, meaning that things could get very interesting as the night went on.

People like myself & others decided to vote that night when we normally never bother to , because we were told it was a one off vote & that every vote mattered. That the government would honour what we voted for.

Id say a 2 million plus people who up until that night never usually voted, did so because they thought that their voices would be heard...But you feign surprise that after yet again having their voice betrayed. That these same people might in all probability not raise themselves to yet again, put their trust in a parliament that had once again been proven not represent them, & vote ...yeah righto...I think your far cleverer than that...you know full well that most wouldn’t make the effort again to vote in the referendum that turned into the onlyeverendum when the result is what a remain parliament wanted.

In my opinion the whole Brexit process has been handicapped by a flawed original referendum.  And it's for that reason that a second one is required and should be held when the precise nature of Brexit is known.  For example No Deal  vs Remain.

If the UK leaves the EU with a manner of Brexit that is less popular with it's population than Remaining then surely that's just an exercise in national self-harm.  And doing so while claiming that it must in order to honour the democratic wish of the nation would just be absurd.  Their is one way to make sure that the particular form of Brexit the UK opts for is more popular than remaining and that is a hold a second referendum.  If that Brexit passes then no parliament will stop it and it will be done. 

I'm not feigning surprise when I say that I can't understand the mentality that would choose not to vote in a second referendum after feeling strongly enough to vote in the first..  They would give up on their dream because they don't want the monumental effort of ticking a box a second time? What's the worst that could happen given that the best would be the Brexit that they wish for becoming a reality?  Surely they understand the logic of the second referendum being a materially different vote and not just a repeat of the first.. 

Would you be in favour of the UK leaving the EU with No Deal even if you knew that at the time of Brexit that Remain had more popular support than a No Deal Brexit ?

Incidentally I've some people say that they voted Remain in the first referendum but would vote Leave (to whatever version of Brexit was on offer) simply because they want the first referendum to be 'honoured'.  I can't understand that mentality either.

 

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2 hours ago, sheeponacid said:

https://www.poultryworld.net/Health/Articles/2019/4/Germany-concerned-about-antibiotic-levels-in-poultry-sector-417344E/

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/farm-animals/chickens/meat-chickens/

https://www.animalaid.org.uk/the-issues/our-campaigns/animal-farming/suffering-farmed-chickens/

https://www.eurogroupforanimals.org/european-parliaments-plenary-urges-commission-to-improve-broiler-chicken-welfare-and-public-health

https://www.eurogroupforanimals.org/vast-majority-of-eu-citizens-call-for-better-broiler-chicken-welfare

Thanks for the reply Gboro... are you happy to work in, & support this type of, intensive farming ? 

If you are, fair enough, it’s each to their own set of ethics...for me I’ve  always said that if I had to treat livestock the way intensive farming treated chickens, pigs, turkeys etc then it’s time to jack it in...yes we kill animals for food but surely there’s has to be decency shown to them whilst their alive.

Some on here talk about the chlorine washed chickens in the USA, but seem quite happy to tuck into 6 week old Frankenstein broiler poultry stuffed full of antibiotics... which as we both know are needed to control the potential for disease due to their poor living conditions ....safe to eat, hmm really??? Are you sure they’re not helping the rise of superbugs? There’s many who disagree with you. The report from Germany is an interesting quick read.

I think that the animal aid & other compassion in farming reports, say it all about the intensive broiler & caged chicken industries in the EU. An industry built on what many of us see as an abuse of animals to provide cheap unhealthy meat, & eggs....although many DCFC remainers sadly see it as an industry to wax lyrical about....maybe I’m wrong & their always posting their objections to it?

Then again some of these posters are the same people that think battery farms were abolished in 2012. Which must mean, some believe that the changes to these caged birds living conditions, by affording them an area the size of an A4 sheet of paper + shared postcard space, is fair enough? really... Still sounds pretty much like rebranded battery farming to me, but hey ho.

Yes the EUs models are better than the USAs models of intensive farming, but this doesn’t make the EU models any less vile in my opinion. The last two reports show thankfully that although the everyday DCFC remainer may wax lyrical about our intensive chickens, most other compassionate people, still find it abhorrent....might be why your struggling for staff?

EU intensive chickens, some see them as finger licking abused..but no chlorine means others see them as pure clucking Disney ...still, it’s all a matter of opinion eh?

Yes, very happy to work in chicken, thank you. 

No antibiotics or growth stimulants used. No cages. No chlorine washing required. 

Is it perfect? No, but it provides a cheap nutritious source of protein. If every farm bred free range chicken, the cost would be prohibitive. 

The chicken is treated with as much dignity as possible. But it is still going to die, can't do much about that. 

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Good to see Johnson is backing his country of birth, on the controversy over our ambassador to the USA . Just as he should, as someone who is potentially our new Prime Minister.

Pity that he was born in New York.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Yes, very happy to work in chicken, thank you. 

No antibiotics or growth stimulants used. No cages. No chlorine washing required. 

Is it perfect? No, but it provides a cheap nutritious source of protein. If every farm bred free range chicken, the cost would be prohibitive. 

The chicken is treated with as much dignity as possible. But it is still going to die, can't do much about that. 

Didn’t expect any cages for broilers, but you do pleasantly surprise me that you managing to keep antibiotics out of them...What type & brand of food are they getting. 

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On 09/07/2019 at 01:09, 1of4 said:

So now you want him sacked. You said in your earlier post he should resign. Come on make your mind up.

I note you never justified your false claim I wanted the Ambassador sacked.  A sad reflection on people's inability to read correctly a mere couple of para graphs   ( theres some scary facts that we now read in an F shape on electronic devices and skim rather than assimilate written words so you are far from alone ) 

I don't seek nor expect any retraction, but it's a sad state when people can read and fail to take on board simple viewpoints without totally getting them wrong.

At no point did I ever in two small lists on here say I wanted the Ambassador sacked 

I did predict he would resign, and today he has indeed resigned.

To help you, when people write a commentary and prediction on topical current affairs, it is not necessarily the case that is their wish.  Quite often the opposite 

A wearher forecaster predicting rain, does not mean he wishes to see rain fall.

As you never replied to my earlier explanation to your untrue assertions above I feel obliged to explain once again in simpler terms now the news item is again topical. 

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