1of4 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: Because if the USA government are not going to speak to him it's pretty pointless having an Ambassador in the USA. The most powerful country are refusing to talk to him, and it's his job to liaise with the USA government. He really will be struggling to fulfill his role. And it's such an important role. Hence how important it is to find out how his emails got leaked and by whom. So now you want him sacked. You said in your earlier post he should resign. Come on make your mind up. How can you justify wanting a person sacked who as done nothing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Today marks the death of irony. Waxy Lemon is now seeking refugee status in the USA and has appeaed directly to tRump to grant him asylum. It appears that Waxy believes that having your entire country carpet bombed is insufficient reason for Muslims (or anyone else for that matter) to be granted asylum in the UK but the threat of 12 months in an open prison playing snooker apparently places his own life under imminent and real threat. A ROFL moment if ever there was one. https://evolvepolitics.com/oh-the-irony-tommy-robinson-to-apply-for-refugee-status-in-the-united-states/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltonoRama Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 On 07/07/2019 at 22:46, reverendo de duivel said: So even when survey after survey after survey has shown EU migrants are a net positive to the UK exchequer, you not only don't believe it, but would be happy for those people to join the black economy and contribute even less? Strange argument. The survey after survey showing that were comissioned by the people who benefit from mass migration i.e. the rich and powerful.. The economic benefits of the inflow of immigration are that businesses can pay less for labour as it's in plentiful supply. Workers get poorer and the rich get richer. Whilst there are economic benefits they only get shared amongst the few at the expense of the many. Whilst at the same time the fabric of our society is fundamentally changed which many people dislike. At no point in the process of enlargement of the EU did any of our glorious leaders bother to consult the population to check if they wanted this to happen. Now that it has across the EU anti EU parties are making gains fuelled by high unemployment and lower living standards caused by the homogenization of the labour market across the new enlarged area. The EU will not exist in it's current form in 5 years time so anybody wanting to remain is rather onto a loser anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 hours ago, ronnieronalde said: I'm struggling to see who gave our leaders permission to create such powerful weapons in the name of defending us. Well, we did, we do, collectively, by tolerating a corrupt system of elite rule. The economies of countries like the UK and the US depend heavily on arms sales; it's not called the military industrial complex for nothing, war is big business. Check out for example, the profit made by Philip May's company from his wife's decision to bomb Syria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, HiltonoRama said: The survey after survey showing that were comissioned by the people who benefit from mass migration i.e. the rich and powerful.. The economic benefits of the inflow of immigration are that businesses can pay less for labour as it's in plentiful supply. Workers get poorer and the rich get richer. Whilst there are economic benefits they only get shared amongst the few at the expense of the many. Whilst at the same time the fabric of our society is fundamentally changed which many people dislike. At no point in the process of enlargement of the EU did any of our glorious leaders bother to consult the population to check if they wanted this to happen. Now that it has across the EU anti EU parties are making gains fuelled by high unemployment and lower living standards caused by the homogenization of the labour market across the new enlarged area. The EU will not exist in it's current form in 5 years time so anybody wanting to remain is rather onto a loser anyway. So we punish the poor who are just trying to scrape a living and we do absolutely jack poo to punish the ones who are taking all of the money? How about instead of 20% of the UK living below the poverty line with many WORKING families having to rely on handouts and foodbanks, how about we just pay everyone a decent ducking wage and we give those who need it decent benefits? How about that? How about instead of shpunting £1.5 billion of our money to stay in power the governments puts that money into social housing, or into helping the homeless or into better education for poor,fat, smoking, pregnant criminal teenagers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_Kingdom Over 14 million people, about one in five of the UK population are in poverty, according to the Joseph Rountree Foundation. Of them 8.2 million are working-age adults, 4.1 million are children and 1.9 million are pensioners. Eight million people live in poverty in families where at least one person is working. (4.1m children and 1.9m pensioners, in other words 6 million people who can't do anything about their own position, other than pray) No, lets create a myth that it's migrants forcing down the wages and ruining society. Good solid logic. We're "going after" the wrong set of people. It's not the poor stealing our money, it's not the poor who have the tax breaks or the offshore bank accounts. We don't need to change the rules to make it even worse for the poor, we need to change the rules so the rich stop taking the absolute piss (and I mean the rich, not the "comfotable") Then the bolded bit, how much per year were we paying to stay in it? How much is that multiplied by 5? How much have we spent so far trying to work out how to leave? How much is our settlement bill (unless we renege on it, which I'd actually be ok with) If it's going to die in 5 years then why the heck have we put out entire country through the turmoil we've put it through since 2016? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, McRainy said: Well, we did, we do, collectively, by tolerating a corrupt system of elite rule. The economies of countries like the UK and the US depend heavily on arms sales; it's not called the military industrial complex for nothing, war is big business. Check out for example, the profit made by Philip May's company from his wife's decision to bomb Syria. First of all, you're preaching to the converted. Although I'm not sure what we can do about it. Perhaps some kind of Arab Spring uprising but I've no doubt the Police and Military would be used against the people it's supposed to serve and protect in order to quash any signs of that happening here. The only thing I can do on a personal level is stop writing and getting angry on a forum get up off my arse and try to make a difference at a lower level in the only way I know how. Even doing that for the last couple of weeks shows me how little those in power want to help the poor. Barrier after barrier, block after block, If I achieve anything it will be despite their support not because of it. Secondly on the bolded bit. I dare not check it out. I've already got one foot in the "let's blow Parliament to smithereens and start again" camp and I fear reading about another corrupt MP sorting out a family backhander may push me over the edge. Did you ever read about who got the license to produce medicinal cannabis in the UK and who will benefit from it ;-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: No, lets create a myth that it's migrants forcing down the wages and ruining society. Good solid logic. Regarding wages, it is economic fact sadly. Supply and demand. Straight line graphs. Et voila Having stated the obvious, I'm sure there will be an EU report you can access claiming wages are increasing everywhere as a result of the expansion of the EU and by allowing free movement of EU citizens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: Regarding wages, it is economic fact sadly. Supply and demand. Straight line graphs. Et voila Having stated the obvious, I'm sure there will be an EU report you can access claiming wages are increasing everywhere as a result of the expansion of the EU and by allowing free movement of EU citizens Great once we stop all those EU workers entering the UK. Just think of all those great jobs that will be left vacant, meaning that their rate of pay will then have to rise. All due to as you say supply and demand. Can't wait for the great day to arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, 1of4 said: Great once we stop all those EU workers entering the UK. Just think of all those great jobs that will be left vacant, meaning that their rate of pay will then have to rise. All due to as you say supply and demand. Can't wait for the great day to arrive. Wages of the low paid indeed rising in time. Shocking I know to some. But good for many, and a decent upside to Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Today marks the death of irony. Waxy Lemon is now seeking refugee status in the USA and has appeaed directly to tRump to grant him asylum. It appears that Waxy believes that having your entire country carpet bombed is insufficient reason for Muslims (or anyone else for that matter) to be granted asylum in the UK but the threat of 12 months in an open prison playing snooker apparently places his own life under imminent and real threat. A ROFL moment if ever there was one. https://evolvepolitics.com/oh-the-irony-tommy-robinson-to-apply-for-refugee-status-in-the-united-states/ Tommy wont like it in the good old US of A. How is he going to make his money if nobody is watching him on You Tube. He won't be noticed or get any notoriety amongst all those extreme far right nutters, that live in the land of the free and talk bigger gonads then he ever as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 hours ago, HiltonoRama said: The survey after survey showing that were comissioned by the people who benefit from mass migration i.e. the rich and powerful.. The economic benefits of the inflow of immigration are that businesses can pay less for labour as it's in plentiful supply. Workers get poorer and the rich get richer. Whilst there are economic benefits they only get shared amongst the few at the expense of the many. Whilst at the same time the fabric of our society is fundamentally changed which many people dislike. At no point in the process of enlargement of the EU did any of our glorious leaders bother to consult the population to check if they wanted this to happen. Now that it has across the EU anti EU parties are making gains fuelled by high unemployment and lower living standards caused by the homogenization of the labour market across the new enlarged area. The EU will not exist in it's current form in 5 years time so anybody wanting to remain is rather onto a loser anyway. The global market is the main cause of lower wages it's not an immigration issue. The fabric of our society as changed constantly over the past millennium, that's evolution. It's not just EU countries that are seeing right-wing groups gaining support. Why do you think Trump used the slogans, Make America Great Again and America First? The EU will probably not exist as it is today. I'd still want us to be a part of it, so we can have a say on how the E U should be run in the coming years because I believe it will be detrimental to our country if we cease being a member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 34 minutes ago, 1of4 said: Tommy wont like it in the good old US of A. How is he going to make his money if nobody is watching him on You Tube. He won't be noticed or get any notoriety amongst all those extreme far right nutters, that live in the land of the free and talk bigger gonads then he ever as. On the flipside, whanger is cheaper out there. Every cloud and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 The weather’s nice outside and pre-season’s starting. If you’re starting to become annoyed with a poster’s political opinion, perhaps it’s time to take a step back and enjoy a football forum for the football and not the politics? After all, I’ve never seen anyone have their mind’s changed in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Duracell said: The weather’s nice outside and pre-season’s starting. If you’re starting to become annoyed with a poster’s political opinion, perhaps it’s time to take a step back and enjoy a football forum for the football and not the politics? After all, I’ve never seen anyone have their mind’s changed in this thread. I don’t agree, but now you mention it, i think that's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 5 hours ago, ronnieronalde said: I've already got one foot in the "let's blow Parliament to smithereens and start again" camp Both feet needed; reform of capitalism is not possible, it simply subsumes and commodifies any attempt to change it on its own terms Organisations like the Labour Party and the traditional unions, which are supposed to represent the interests of working people, simply become part of the system as soon as they gain any power. They then actually serve to perpetuate the system by diverting our desire and efforts for change into ineffective channels. We need to wake up from the dream that 'leaders' are going to do anything for us, and start doing it for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 hours ago, 1of4 said: So now you want him sacked. You said in your earlier post he should resign. Come on make your mind up. How can you justify wanting a person sacked who as done nothing wrong? Sadly I have to hope others read my earlier posts properly. You will find nowhere in my post and subsequent answer to your question that I said I wanted him sacked. Quite why you concluded I had was yourself pre imagining what my position was. I even specifically for your benefit in made it clear it was not the Ambassador's fault. But on a debating forum it is quite normal for people to provide a comment on what they think is likely to happen. That shows realism as opposed to just thinking of fairness and wishing for fairness over reality. I won't bother asking you again if you think the Ambassador will remain in post, as it's already been announced he is leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 I've cleaned up the thread. Stop the petty bickering - at the start of this thread we said we wouldn't tolerate a bad atmosphere but instead would just start handing out warnings. The advice to put people on ignore is fantastic - there is no shame in blocking people who you don't see eye to eye with at any level. Just block and move on. And go outside, looks like it might be nice later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Today marks the death of irony. Waxy Lemon is now seeking refugee status in the USA and has appeaed directly to tRump to grant him asylum. It appears that Waxy believes that having your entire country carpet bombed is insufficient reason for Muslims (or anyone else for that matter) to be granted asylum in the UK but the threat of 12 months in an open prison playing snooker apparently places his own life under imminent and real threat. A ROFL moment if ever there was one. https://evolvepolitics.com/oh-the-irony-tommy-robinson-to-apply-for-refugee-status-in-the-united-states/ Which passport would he claim asylum under though? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 8 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Today marks the death of irony. Waxy Lemon is now seeking refugee status in the USA and has appeaed directly to tRump to grant him asylum. It appears that Waxy believes that having your entire country carpet bombed is insufficient reason for Muslims (or anyone else for that matter) to be granted asylum in the UK but the threat of 12 months in an open prison playing snooker apparently places his own life under imminent and real threat. A ROFL moment if ever there was one. https://evolvepolitics.com/oh-the-irony-tommy-robinson-to-apply-for-refugee-status-in-the-united-states/ You might remember I "forced" myself to watch some of his videos, and those of his "antagonists" trying to find and understand his point. It led me to have some really good chats with a couple of folk, so I'm STILL glad I watched them, even though the overall theme was painful. I'm not apologising to those posters when I say I finally lost any chance of having any possibility of giving him the benefit of doubt for 2 reasons. One was the video of him sparking that lad out at a football match. Irrespective of what was or wasn't said. The second was watching his talk with the American fella who's name slips me and when asked why he left he EDL? Money, he was paid to leave. At least he was honest enough to admit it That's what it ALL boils down to in the end. What's in it for me Jack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, ronnieronalde said: Money, he was paid to leave. At least he was honest enough to admit it That's what it ALL boils down to in the end. Yep - although I'm sceptical as to how much money he makes in donations actually comes from the gullible. I'm happy to believe that plenty of people might be so whipped up into outrage by his tactics that they bung him a few quid, but I find it hard to reconcile that possibility with the lifestyle he leads. Far more believable that the whole thing is all a money laundering front from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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