The Politics Thread 2019

[Uptherams]

6 minutes ago, Spanish said:

You seem so certain you know all the answers

Taking back control doesn't describe the conclusion. 

[Uptherams]

2 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

it makes perfect sense actually, as it prevents the EU from legislating in areas that it has not agreed competence in international treaties. It will start legislating on the request of the council and the parliament. the parliament can block and amend legislation.

this process could be argued actually makes sure that the national parliaments remain sovereign.

Is it a superior model, more democratic than our parliament? 

[Spanish]

3 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Taking back control doesn't describe the conclusion. 

Are you a politician?

[Uptherams]

1 minute ago, Spanish said:

Are you a politician?

What did taking back control mean to you? That we wouldn't let anyone in to the country again? 

Do you understand the process in the UK? Parties have different manifesto's and we vote them in/out every 5 years. 

[alexxxxx]

1 minute ago, Uptherams said:

Is it a superior model, more democratic than our parliament? 

they aren't comparable parliaments. EU parliament is there to hold the council and the EC to account, to block legislation and to propose/pass motions.

The UK parliament is to pass legislation in the United Kingdom and ultimately is sovereign.

[eddie]

5 minutes ago, ossieram said:

The main difference between May and Juncker is that May has to be elected as an MP by the locals first and then by the tories to be leader and then her party has to be elected to govern.

No matter what Juncker does between now and the end of his term in office, the general public have no way of getting him out and did not elect him to the position in the first place.

I'm not sure why you hate him. What has he ever done to you? ?

He is a politician as opposed to a civil servant, and was the former Prime Minister of Luxembourg. He was nominated by 26 votes to 2 - the fact that Cameron was one of the two dissenters might explain his vitriol - and a natural extension of Cameron's dislike would be that the Tory rags (Telegraph, Mail, Express etc) took up the cudgel with a vengeance.

Following the next European elections, and after a transitional period, there will be a new President of the Commission. Juncker leaves office in (I think) November this year.

[Uptherams]

4 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

they aren't comparable parliaments.

? OK

[Comrade 86]

21 hours ago, sheeponacid said:

Sorry I can't put your mind at rest, some big fat capitalist money deals may indeed be hurt. But I can promise you that you that the master race won't starve to death even if it' is a no deal Brexit, & I would hope that we could all do with a bit less luxury if we had to, to help Mother Earth.

Will Brexit turn out how I'd like it? Hell no I want it to lead to the end to our ruling elite & for social anarchism to replace them. But I'll make do with the end to the CAP, less loss of wildlife & less loss of its habitat for now.

I'm a socialist and I work in the renewable energy sector so you get zero out 10 for the lame projections and assumptions. More to the point, you must be the only wildlife lover in the UK who thinks that supporting a motion proposed by the Tory government will give rise to an increased environmental awareness and a cap on activities like fracking. Do you really think that the subsidies on renewable energy will be reinstated, the ban on bloodsports properly enforced and the protection of our environment will all of a sudden become a priority for the likes of May, Goves and the idiot that it Boris Johnson post-Brexit? Do you really think they will implement agricultural policies that better protect our wildlife or will they just cover our land in GM crops owned by American food corps. I'm thinking you've not really done your homework but like a lot of your ilk, you love to wax lyrical to strangers about the brave new anarchistic society your lot will usher in if they can ever get out of their mums' basements.

Anyway, good luck with the revolution mate. As a proper hardcore anarchist banging your drum on a footy forum, I'm sure you'll have the entire military industrial complex quaking in its boots. After all, what match are a police force and an army for a tree-hugging, Swampy wannabe? 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-regulations-michael-gove-environment-drugs-a7649041.html
 

 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

8 hours ago, GboroRam said:

If no deal was a walk-away, no effect no deal, I'd agree. But we should be looking for a win-win agreement. And that's definitely not no deal. No deal is lose-lose. But the UK is the greater loser in that scenario.

Having read Stephen Covey's 7 habits of highly effective people, the "no deal" he talks about is to cancel Brexit. And he'd say that should be a legitimate option in a negotiation. Walk away with nothing changed. Why would we accept a lose-lose, or a lose-win scenario?

I'm about 3/4 of the way through. What did you make of it? As I posted in the 'What are you reading?' thread, I think there are some decent points (including the win/win or no/deal mindset) amongst the waffle. There is an awful lot of waffle though.

49 minutes ago, eddie said:

It did result in an effective immediate 10% devaluation of Sterling against both the US dollar and the Euro and created a huge requirement for businesses to insulate the public by absorbing a massive amount of the costs themselves by taking a huge hit on their own profit margins (which was not necessarily a bad thing) instead of passing all the costs on by increasing prices. Perhaps that was a factor in the decimation of businesses in the high street we are now witnessing - so although the 'catastrophe' wasn't immediate, it is perhaps there, just spread out over three years instead of all at once?

 

My instinct is that the biggest factor by far is the growth of online shopping. 

[eddie]

3 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

 

My instinct is that the biggest factor by far is the growth of online shopping. 

That's why I said "A factor" and not "The cause". It certainly didn't help.

[1of4]

22 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

is that what we call taking back control of our borders?

let alone the potential for breaking elements of the GFA..

probably easier just to let NI to join the republic

One thing it wouldn't be is easy. If brexit brings a major down turn of their economy, causing civil unrest in NI. Yes we may see some protestants calling for a united Ireland. What we are likely to see is a return of the ArmaLite to the streets of Belfast.

[alexxxxx]

1 minute ago, 1of4 said:

One thing it wouldn't be is easy. If brexit brings a major down turn of their economy, causing civil unrest in NI. Yes we may see some protestants calling for a united Ireland. What we are likely to see is a return of the ArmaLite to the streets of Belfast.

i was being facetious but yeah i think we all know that there isn't a solution that'll please everyone. i'd be incensed if i lived in NI and voted remain.

[David]

1 hour ago, BurtonRam7 said:

My instinct is that the biggest factor by far is the growth of online shopping. 

Yup. Next were 8% down on retail store sales but 12% up on online sales, expect that to continue as people’s shopping habits change, and with retailers on the high street closing and the lack of choice, it’s only going to shift more sales online.

You also have stores like HMV which have gone down to changes in technology and streaming music/films.

[Stagtime]

As an outsider, this makes more sense than the pollies.

[Rev]

1 hour ago, David said:

Yup. Next were 8% down on retail store sales but 12% up on online sales, expect that to continue as people’s shopping habits change and with retailers on the high street closing and the lack of choice, it’s only going to shift more sales online.

You also have stores like HMV which have gone down to changes in technology and streaming music/films.

The advantages of online stores are almost impossible for the high street to compete with.

Lower taxes, lower staffing costs, lower overheads, more convenience, more agility, less regulation etc etc.

That applies equally for disruptors such as Amazon as it does to high street names.

The question isn't how we save the high street, but how do we change it so it can survive and add value to it's community?

 

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, Uptherams said:

We all know in reality that any checks between the UK and Ireland would be minimal to non existent. Especially coming in to the UK, let's be completely honest about that. 

I struggle to understand how you can state this with such certainty. Show your working.

[Parsnip]

1 hour ago, reveldevil said:

The question isn't how we save the high street, but how do we change it so it can survive and add value to it's community?

I went to the riverside shopping place in Chesterfield a few weeks ago to buy stuff for the kids from next and hobbycraft. Took them to the pizza hut after. Yesterday i got a parking fine in the post because i was parked there for 2hrs 6mins. Apparently the limit is 2hrs which I didn't even know.

I especially like how it's £60 but if you can't pay within 14 days then it goes up to £100. So basically If you're struggling for cash - they'll make you struggle more.

Is anyone really trying to save the high street?

[David]

1 minute ago, Parsnip said:

I went to the riverside shopping place in Chesterfield a few weeks ago to buy stuff for the kids from next and hobbycraft. Took them to the pizza hut after. Yesterday i got a parking fine in the post because i was parked there for 2hrs 6mins. Apparently the limit is 2hrs which I didn't even know.

I especially like how it's £60 but if you can't pay within 14 days then it goes up to £100. So basically If you're struggling for cash - they'll make you struggle more.

Is anyone really trying to save the high street?

Not the best at shopping are you? ?

[Comrade 86]

34 minutes ago, Parsnip said:

I went to the riverside shopping place in Chesterfield a few weeks ago to buy stuff for the kids from next and hobbycraft. Took them to the pizza hut after. Yesterday i got a parking fine in the post because i was parked there for 2hrs 6mins. Apparently the limit is 2hrs which I didn't even know.

I especially like how it's £60 but if you can't pay within 14 days then it goes up to £100. So basically If you're struggling for cash - they'll make you struggle more.

Is anyone really trying to save the high street?

It's 99% certain to be unenforceable. It'll be an invoice from a private entity despite looking similar to a parking fine. I always simply ignore but if you are of a nervous disposition and will lose sleep when they threaten you with court and even bigger fines, there are ways to deal with the matter upfront. The following link explains all but there are any number of other sources to corroborate this so do feel free to check, just DON'T PAY THE FINE!!!

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/

 

[sheeponacid]

4 hours ago, reveldevil said:

It's really interesting to read the views of an actual farmer, which seem the complete opposite of what I've read the farming community hold. 

For instance, I've read about the problems the current government have had even paying the current subsidies in a timely manner, leading to fines from the EU and all manner of problems for agriculture.

I've also read that Gove has so far come up with vague promises about moving to an environment first policy, but there's no real meat on the bones, so to speak.

As someone actually at the sharp end, what would you like to see going forward, and do you see anyone in power aligning with your view?

For me subsidies have to be linked to how environmentally friendly the land is farmed, the CAP has to go.

Subsiidies would be paid out on a scale based on how well...

Soil quality had been improved

Landscapes maintained.

Wild life habitats had been.. improved, created & maintained....e.g. Introduction of stone walls, hedgerows, wild flower areas to encourage pollinating insects, tree planting, ponds etc.

Improvements in air quality, water quality, & renewable energy usage/production 

Increases in the number of plant, animal insect etc life utilising the farm

Public initiatives to give the general public a better understanding of what is being done & why...open days to farms & more public access to the countryside.

Communty iniatives such as keeping water courses flowing freely/help prevent flooding, road gritting, footpath repairs etc... to further build bonds with the public

 

I'd like to see tighter controls of pesticides, herbicides & livestock....with incentives for keeping some of the rarer domestic breeds of livestock.

A data base showing best practice, the latest environmentally friendly products &  a list of experts in different fields of agriculture & environmental topics...who could advise etc

Action/support & education groups set up to help farmers all get up to speed with farming environmentally friendly as soon as possible

Capital grant pots for investing in major projects

Better mental health support..remoteness, solitude etc can create demons as can the constant life/death cycle of livestock...TB testing day etc

A big one for me is, for the environment to be a major part of the school curriculum on a level with maths...our children need to understand what they have in Mother Earth & how best to look after it...the more they understand & buy into it the more environmentally friendly the next generation will become, with better & better habits...farming & its role in shaping the future would be part of this curriculum

I"d like to see the public prepared to pay a bit more for their products, but in return to know that their getting better protection of their wildlife & their environment etc  for their future generations to enjoy...3 lots of veg for a quid in Aldi, if people are willing to pay more for a better NHS I think that they'd be happy to pay a bit more for their products if it helped safeguard Mother Earth for future generations...the supermarkets could help out here to, possibly not squeeze so hard.

For all the above to be policed properly, as there are so many landscapes ,challenges & farming is a broad church dairy, sheep, crops, hill farm, lowland farm etc so subsidy compliance would have to be tailored, not a one size fits all. 

I admit that some serious investment will be needed...but most environmental groups back this approach as the best way forward.

Which party would best help us deliver it...crikey Gove understands it, buts a weasel who can't be trusted as fracking amongst other things have shown...labour have a bit of a rough ride in the farming industry & haven't ever really endeared themselves...but I'd give them a blast if they said they'd step up to the plate...I think a lot of farmers if I'm honest may go Tory though.

Subsidies can be late, I'd expect no more from this government & DEFRA did want us to rally to the remain flag, hence the constant carping by them...but they're as trustworthy as Gove.

Finally amongst all the above we'd still aim to deliver great products at fair prices.