GboroRam Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 49 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: I know a couple of people who worked making the binding paste for loads of food products in the UK . You wouldn't believe the stuff that's in it or what find's it's way into it .Most packaged food is the same no matter where it's from . Not really. EU legislation protects us from things acceptable in the US - insect fragments and rat droppings for example. There is a permittable level in the US, any trace is unfit for sale in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Cheers @cheron85 - really appreciate the response and useful links. Having every topic in this one "politics" thread makes it really hard to follow conversations so I'm sure I picked on you unfairly, but I'm glad I did. It's a really important subject and I'm grateful for the summary and links. Too busy to look now but I shall go through them and learn more. Might be a few days. I think fullfact are pretty good, but who fact checks the fact checkers? Look forward to seeing what they have to say. Ridiculous response to Trump's press conference today. He won't know what the NHS is and they had to ask three times before Theresa May stepped in to try to explain. And everyone goes hysterical because now Trump apparently wants to get his hands on the NHS. I just hate the media and politicians and that we can't have a sensible conversation, but I'm delighted the forum might provide one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 36 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Not really. EU legislation protects us from things acceptable in the US - insect fragments and rat droppings for example. There is a permittable level in the US, any trace is unfit for sale in the EU. Insect fragments - surely the way to go . Lot's of protein and environmentally more sound . I honestly can't believe there is any realistic way of removing all rodent droppings from most arable foods. I believe were also doing trials on using human waste to grow crops like they did in the old day's so don't worry about the odd rat . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Insect fragments - surely the way to go . Lot's of protein and environmentally more sound . I honestly can't believe there is any realistic way of removing all rodent droppings from most arable foods. I believe were also doing trials on using human waste to grow crops like they did in the old day's so don't worry about the odd rat . There are tolerance and contamination levels in everything. And that’s before you even get to testing procedures and methods. so getting all high and mighty and left right wing Brexit or no Brexit about it is silly. The US is stringent about things we are not and we are equally over other things that they are laissez fair about. Never the less .. I would back our European/UK regs and enforcement against anything from the US ( or China ) and do you know how much Chicken we import from Thailand ? .. thousands upon thousands of tonnes and what are their regs and policing of them ? Chlorine in Chicken and adulterated wine with additives no thank you, but let’s not forget universal criminal activity and Spanish “Olive oil” from a few years back, interesting meat sources in Poland and the old eastern bloc. Yes the EU is great for homogenising standards but don’t kid yourself that any one authority is vastly superior to another .. it’s often more about enforcement more than the minutiae of a particular standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 28 minutes ago, jono said: do you know how much Chicken we import from Thailand ? .. thousands upon thousands of tonnes A fraction of what we produce every week. We can and do meet those higher standards every day. Look at the statistics of food safety outside of the EU. Why would you voluntarily give up standards that make your food safer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, jono said: Yes the EU is great for homogenising standards but don’t kid yourself that any one authority is vastly superior to another .. it’s often more about enforcement more than the minutiae of a particular standard. Totally agree, its enforcement of high standards we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 03/06/2019 at 23:12, Carl Sagan said: What should matter is having the best healthcare outcomes for UK citizens for the money spent. And that should be the only thing that matters. I've spoken privately with MPs across the political spectrum who all acknowledge that everywhere in the West has essentially free healthcare at the point of use and most have better outcomes than us, but it's politically untenable to ever criticize the NHS because of the crazed fanaticism of people incapable of opening their eyes. Out of interest, what alternatives would you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 How beneficial for the majority of the country would a trade deal between us and the USA actually be? If the USA try to implement a deal anything like the TTIP deal, that they tried and failed to broker with the EU, then we as a nation will be in serious trouble, economically, environmentally and have a society that will be broken beyond repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Brexit is great. It will allow a hideous Tory government to accept frightful demands from a US maniac. This is definitely what the 52% voted for. Remember way back in 2017/18 when Trump was like some sort of sick joke and a laughing stock in this country. He would retweet British Far Right groups as well as talking total and utter rubbish about on all sorts of subjects. Farage would try and hang around with him a sad attempt to remain relevant. Britain looked on Trump's America with a mixture of laughter and pity. Well in our desperation, we have become Farage. Our woeful Tory wannabe leaders and pathetic royal family fawning over this total imbecile and his corrupt regime. Brexit is a total joke and all we have left is to sell our souls to Trump. Only hope is the fear of this happening will push moderate Leavers back over to Remain and we can write this 4 years period off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Trump this morning... "I don’t see [the NHS] being on the table. Somebody asked me a question today and I say everything is up for negotiation, because everything is. But that’s something I would not see as part of trade. That’s not trade.” Think he is actually senile. Yesterday he said... "When you’re dealing on trade, everything is on the table. So NHS or anything else. A lot more than that,” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 33 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Trump this morning... "I don’t see [the NHS] being on the table. Somebody asked me a question today and I say everything is up for negotiation, because everything is. But that’s something I would not see as part of trade. That’s not trade.” Think he is actually senile. Yesterday he said... "When you’re dealing on trade, everything is on the table. So NHS or anything else. A lot more than that,” He doesn't know what the NHS is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: He doesn't know what the NHS is. Does it work as it should for everyone now. Why do people keep going abroad for treatment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 9 hours ago, GboroRam said: A fraction of what we produce every week. We can and do meet those higher standards every day. Look at the statistics of food safety outside of the EU. Why would you voluntarily give up standards that make your food safer? I wouldn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html several egregious examples but this one really stood out: one hospital was charged £52,000 for a job which should have cost £750. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 52 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Trump this morning... "I don’t see [the NHS] being on the table. Somebody asked me a question today and I say everything is up for negotiation, because everything is. But that’s something I would not see as part of trade. That’s not trade.” Think he is actually senile. Yesterday he said... "When you’re dealing on trade, everything is on the table. So NHS or anything else. A lot more than that,” Wouldn’t the privatisation of the NHS be the connection between Farage, Banks, Johnson and Trump? It’s all makes for very depressing watching at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: Wouldn’t the privatisation of the NHS be the connection between Farage, Banks, Johnson and Trump? It’s all makes for very depressing watching at the moment Who’s project was PFI ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 11 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: Cheers @cheron85 - really appreciate the response and useful links. Having every topic in this one "politics" thread makes it really hard to follow conversations so I'm sure I picked on you unfairly, but I'm glad I did. It's a really important subject and I'm grateful for the summary and links. Too busy to look now but I shall go through them and learn more. Might be a few days. I think fullfact are pretty good, but who fact checks the fact checkers? Look forward to seeing what they have to say. Ridiculous response to Trump's press conference today. He won't know what the NHS is and they had to ask three times before Theresa May stepped in to try to explain. And everyone goes hysterical because now Trump apparently wants to get his hands on the NHS. I just hate the media and politicians and that we can't have a sensible conversation, but I'm delighted the forum might provide one! Cheers mate! I think political debate i n the UK has become somewhat poisonous over the last 10 years and the Remain/Leave divide has only made that worse - So I always appreciate a polite, well reasoned argument when one is made regardless of whether I agree with it or not - I think the best way forward with politics is when everyone comes to the table, discusses their views and comes to a decision as a consensus Many would argue progress is slower/stunted when that happens but I think it's the best way when you're talking about a nation of 60m people - If you're out for a beer with the lads you need a firm, single decision maker to pick the pub otherwise you'll never get anywhere - The difference with a country is that on a pub crawl if the decision is a bad one you can finish your drink and leave within 10 minutes - Bit more difficult for the whole nation 7 hours ago, 1of4 said: How beneficial for the majority of the country would a trade deal between us and the USA actually be? If the USA try to implement a deal anything like the TTIP deal, that they tried and failed to broker with the EU, then we as a nation will be in serious trouble, economically, environmentally and have a society that will be broken beyond repair. Difficult to say - Currently the majority of our exports go to the EU - The idea behind (some of) Brexit is that we'll be able to negotiate deals directly which will make it easier for us to sell in non EU countries (like the US) However - I would argue people who've said that don't understand American politics - If they come to the table they'll be looking for a better deal for the US than the current deal with the EU allows - And suddenly instead of the combined buying power of Europe behind us we'll have the limited buying power of only one country - I suspect the US will come out of it better and we'll get a worse trade deal than we have at the moment 10 hours ago, jono said: Yes the EU is great for homogenising standards but don’t kid yourself that any one authority is vastly superior to another .. it’s often more about enforcement more than the minutiae of a particular standard. They set the standards - It's the British Government who are responsible for enforcing it - Not the EU This is one of those classic ones where we don't need to take back control - We already have the control - We're just not doing anything with it! ? Also - EU food standards are set much higher than most of the rest of the world (the US included) - Personally I'd rather we aspire to having the best standards rather than saying we'll just set our levels automatically to "poor quality" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, Curtains said: Who’s project was PFI ! Tony Blair, and supported by every Tory government since. Want to scrap PFI? Which parties are committed to ending it? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-pfi-private-finance-initiative-end-john-mcdonnell-nhs-hospitals-nationalise-in-house-party-a7965771.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Tony Blair, and supported by every Tory government since. Want to scrap PFI? Which parties are committed to ending it? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-pfi-private-finance-initiative-end-john-mcdonnell-nhs-hospitals-nationalise-in-house-party-a7965771.html At least you admitted it was Labour https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9356942/Blair-defends-PFI-as-NHS-trusts-face-bankruptcy.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 43 minutes ago, Curtains said: Who’s project was PFI ! Labour's, under Blair, however Blair was a soft version of Thatcher, and carried on with some of her polices and practices, such as the decimation of manufacturing and illegal wars. Go read the first article you posted, in full. Then you will see that PFI was a throw of the dice because Thatcher had shafted the country that hard, there was little or no other options. Those that objected to PFI, had no alternative. It was either go PFI and be screwed at 90%, or do nothing and remain screwed at 99.99%. Even the right wing telegraph cannot completely attribute it all to Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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