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The Politics Thread 2019


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31 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

It’s whatever and both sides can argue until they are blue in the face. I’ll just let things pan out and I doubt my life will be too effected either way although I do like a good holiday and I hate queuing at airports. I personally think we had a vote and leave won. Why can’t we try something different? Surely if things go tits up I bet the good old EU will be the first to welcome us back with a big smug look on their faces.

Lucky for you, mine won't either, however I won't stand by and let a lunatic ruin other peoples.

No one from leave has proven we will be better off.  We are actually worse off now than before the vote, and we have not left yet.  Jobs have been lost, businesses moved away, investment halted.  The mere threat of the UK being outside of the EU, especially without a deal, is not attractive to invest or trade too.

We are more reliant on import of goods than what we export.  Take food, yes we export it, however it is a tiny fraction to what we import.  The UK cannot be self sufficient in terms of the food it produces, even if they tried to increase production, the population cannot be fed on what can be farmed.

Medicine, another massive import, some medicines can be stockpiled, fine if you are a hay fever sufferer, bit more serious if you need nuclear medicines.

As for the motor industry, I am sure you can do some research on the impact there, especially the impact on all the supply chains that are involved.

But hey, the Turkish Military bailed out British Steel, that has to be a bad thing...

 

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34 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

It’s whatever and both sides can argue until they are blue in the face. I’ll just let things pan out and I doubt my life will be too effected either way although I do like a good holiday and I hate queuing at airports. I personally think we had a vote and leave won. Why can’t we try something different? Surely if things go tits up I bet the good old EU will be the first to welcome us back with a big smug look on their faces.

No way will the EU welcome the UK back on the same terms as previously. In fact I think they would veto our application, after this poostorm. 

Pro brexit supporters, I feel, vastly overestimate the value of the UK contributions to the EU. 

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1 hour ago, McRamFan said:

Lucky for you, mine won't either, however I won't stand by and let a lunatic ruin other peoples.

No one from leave has proven we will be better off.  We are actually worse off now than before the vote, and we have not left yet.  Jobs have been lost, businesses moved away, investment halted.  The mere threat of the UK being outside of the EU, especially without a deal, is not attractive to invest or trade too.

We are more reliant on import of goods than what we export.  Take food, yes we export it, however it is a tiny fraction to what we import.  The UK cannot be self sufficient in terms of the food it produces, even if they tried to increase production, the population cannot be fed on what can be farmed.

Medicine, another massive import, some medicines can be stockpiled, fine if you are a hay fever sufferer, bit more serious if you need nuclear medicines.

As for the motor industry, I am sure you can do some research on the impact there, especially the impact on all the supply chains that are involved.

But hey, the Turkish Military bailed out British Steel, that has to be a bad thing...

 

So you think there would be even less unemployment under this government than there is already had we voted remain?

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1 hour ago, Van Gritters said:

So you think there would be even less unemployment under this government than there is already had we voted remain?

This government has massaged the unemployment figures for the last 10 years.  If you are unemployed and you do one days work or attend a training course, you are not counted as unemployed for that month.  I expect the government to find another way to 'count' the unemployed and massge the figure downwards, again.

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4 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

This government has massaged the unemployment figures for the last 10 years.  If you are unemployed and you do one days work or attend a training course, you are not counted as unemployed for that month.  I expect the government to find another way to 'count' the unemployed and massge the figure downwards, again.

The statistic is actually "Unemployed and claiming benefits", but is usually shortened when verbally reported on news programmes.

I am an example - redundant and not working (although being of working age) for 2.5 years. A quick check of google showed that our "worth" in terms of assets was greater than the point at which you could claim benefit - and quite right too.

But that meant I was never officially counted as "unemployed", despite being "not employed" for the first time in 30-odd years...….

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7 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

This government has massaged the unemployment figures for the last 10 years.  If you are unemployed and you do one days work or attend a training course, you are not counted as unemployed for that month.  I expect the government to find another way to 'count' the unemployed and massge the figure downwards, again.

Surely that wouldn’t improve the tax receipts the government publishes though

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17 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

I didn’t know about the boarder controls. Tbh I don’t care anymore I just want a conclusion. I just think we shouldn’t be scared of the unknown and believe in ourselves as a prosperous nation.

So you don't recognise those concerns I listed or the need to address them?

I don't want to be continually told to not be afraid or to grasp the nettle, take the opportunity etc etc. What do people who advocate no deal care about the concerns of people who don't want it? Is the talk about unity and bringing the country together just a bunch of glib soundbites?

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On 13/09/2019 at 10:17, ariotofmyown said:

Still think it's a shame that the posters more sympathetic to Brexit have all decided this is the time to stop posting.

It's probably a total coincidence, but this last week or two is when the Vote Leave crew have been brutally exposed as liars and in the pay of big business, gambling on the decline of the country.

I was hoping that leavers may have been able to recognise this. It's ok to think that leaving the EU is a good idea, but many of the people involved in it are corrupt liars.

It's also ok to think that remain is a good idea and that Vote Leave used 'others' as an unsavoury tactic to scare people and find someone to blame.

I am not saying that all leave voters are thick and racists.

Difficult to post anything when your head is so firmly in the sand that you cannot see your keyboard.

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9 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

So you don't recognise those concerns I listed or the need to address them?

I don't want to be continually told to not be afraid or to grasp the nettle, take the opportunity etc etc. What do people who advocate no deal care about the concerns of people who don't want it? Is the talk about unity and bringing the country together just a bunch of glib soundbites?

From what I see I doubt you can bring the country together over this. There are so many versions like remain, soft, hard, etc how can you please everyone? 

It could end up like a you get in a GE where the party that wins is actually the one the majority didn’t vote for.

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Not sure if posted as i don't follow the thread a lot but Theresa May's resignation honours list.

FFS how can Geoffrey Boycott be given a knighthood? Found guilty of assault 20 years ago. I know people rehabilitate and all that but seriously a knighthood? These should be reserved for those that have only ever done good for society and added value, what has he done? An ok Cricket player, thats it?

 

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28 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Not sure if posted as i don't follow the thread a lot but Theresa May's resignation honours list.

FFS how can Geoffrey Boycott be given a knighthood? Found guilty of assault 20 years ago. I know people rehabilitate and all that but seriously a knighthood? These should be reserved for those that have only ever done good for society and added value, what has he done? An ok Cricket player, thats it?

 

He was a vocal supporter of May. That's all it takes.

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22 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

We can’t set our own trade deals up. We can’t control who comes into the country from the EU. We can’t set out own tariffs with many non EU countries. 

The combined trading power of the EU allows it to negotiate much better trade deals than some failing offshore island. Trump will have you for breakfast.

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10 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

He was a vocal supporter of May. That's all it takes.

Dont get why some outgoing failure of a PM should get to nominate anyway.

Yeah she didnt have it easy but her PM reign has to be one of the worst in living history.

 

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1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

Not sure if posted as i don't follow the thread a lot but Theresa May's resignation honours list.

FFS how can Geoffrey Boycott be given a knighthood? Found guilty of assault 20 years ago. I know people rehabilitate and all that but seriously a knighthood? These should be reserved for those that have only ever done good for society and added value, what has he done? An ok Cricket player, thats it?

 

Reminds me of the Frank Skinner joke on They think it's all over.

"He hit her twenty times in the face, presumably over a 5hr period".

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7 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

From what I see I doubt you can bring the country together over this. There are so many versions like remain, soft, hard, etc how can you please everyone? 

It could end up like a you get in a GE where the party that wins is actually the one the majority didn’t vote for.

This is the tragedy. The time to do this was immediately after the referendum.

what we got was Cameron slithering off (having promised to respect the vote and implement the result), May’s coronation and then her insular approach to defining what “leave” meant and what the red lines were. She never ever had a mandate to do that.

 I honestly don’t know how we can possibly row back from where we’ve reached.

Can we reach a compromise or has it all gone too far?

 

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5 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

This is the tragedy. The time to do this was immediately after the referendum.

what we got was Cameron slithering off (having promised to respect the vote and implement the result), May’s coronation and then her insular approach to defining what “leave” meant and what the red lines were. She never ever had a mandate to do that.

 I honestly don’t know how we can possibly row back from where we’ve reached.

Can we reach a compromise or has it all gone too far?

 

Too many people are angry. Too full of hate. It will take at least a generation. 

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11 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I fear so.

 The experience of this could teach much to our young people so I hope there will eventually come a time when the anger can recede and the learnings can be taken.

Like never allowing a gerontocracy or an Old Etonian coup for a start, never allowing a referendum without mandate safeguards (turnout, majority margins), compulsory participation in elections (but allowing for the deliberate spoiling of ballot papers, 'none of the above' or even 'positive abstention') - but the most important thing of all irrespective of whether or not Brexit turns out to be as awful as some are expecting, should be a far greater active involvement in politics.

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16 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I fear so.

 The experience of this could teach much to our young people so I hope there will eventually come a time when the anger can recede and the learnings can be taken.

Too many people are too stubborn and no one will work together may be because they are too stubborn. You only have to see people on here giving it chapter and verse to know that politicians who do it full time will not compromise. It’s just a stalemate.

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