The Politics Thread 2019

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Yes it was me. In jest. But get offended if you like.

I am not pretending such things didn't happen. None of my colleagues reported any abuse based on their nationality before the referendum campaign. Of course they could have kept it to themselves, I don't know. I wonder why they would do that then wait until the last 18 months or so to decide to up and leave.

Nationalists have been emboldened by the tone of the referendum. We have become a more febrile society. Our business has suffered over the past 3 years because people are concerned about coming to the UK. Embassies have warned their sponsored clients to stay indoors on certain days - like when there is a far right protest (they have, so far as I am aware, not done so when a remainer protest takes place). That didn't happen before the referendum campaign. This kind of thing is far more prevalent than it was. Why do you think that is? 

You don't, of course, have to believe any of this.

Strange joke to make more than once. Probably on a par with Jo Brand joking about Farage having acid thrown at him. I'm not offended by it, you're an anonymous person posting on the internet, but I will take you to task on such comments.

I do believe racism and xenophobia exist, I dont believe they have anything to do with Brexit in any way, shape or form. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Strange joke to make more than once. Probably on a par with Jo Brand joking about Farage having acid thrown at him. I'm not offended by it, you're an anonymous person posting on the internet, but I will take you to task on such comments.

I do believe racism and xenophobia exist, I dont believe they have anything to do with Brexit in any way, shape or form. 

Apologies. The second remark I made on the topic was to someone who took the initial remark seriously and included reference to my own grandmother, which I thought was enough to make it clear that I was joking.

As someone who once worked in close contact with death, I have always used joking about it as a defence mechanism. I sometimes forget others don't look at it in the same way.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Apologies. The second remark I made on the topic was to someone who took the initial remark seriously and included reference to my own grandmother, which I thought was enough to make it clear that I was joking.

As someone who once worked in close contact with death, I have always used joking about it as a defence mechanism. I sometimes forget others don't look at it in the same way.

You certainly dont need to apologise to me!

I joke about very inappropriate things all the time, just dont really tend to do it on here because I've discovered that I offend a lot of people and never know how people take things.

[AndyinLiverpool]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

You certainly dont need to apologise to me!

I joke about very inappropriate things all the time, just dont really tend to do it on here because I've discovered that I offend a lot of people and never know how people take things.

Apology withdrawn then.?

[Stive Pesley]

16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I do believe racism and xenophobia exist, I dont believe they have anything to do with Brexit in any way, shape or form. 

Brexit hasn't caused the racism/xenophobia - if that's what you mean?

But it very much has empowered people to stop hiding it.

I'm sure you'd rather live in a society where racism is not acceptable, and anyone who has those thoughts understands that it's not acceptable to air those thoughts in public and expect to go unchallenged?

In which case you would surely accept that Brexit (with it's nationalist, xenophobic undertones - the Farage "breaking point" poster etc) hasn't helped that situation?

 

[i-Ram]

5 hours ago, McRamFan said:

I am in daily contact with a number of NHS trusts, and have heard the fears and concerns from the front line staff.  I have seen the departure of health care professionals, some I have known for years, from both Europe and the ROTW, since brexit reared its ugly head, I have heard patients tell HCP's to go back to their own country, even when they have been born here.  I expect I will hear more today, because I heard it yesterday, the day before, last week, last month and the last 3 years.

I do hope I don’t fall sick in your part of the country. Not only would I be unlikely to find many Health Care Professionals, it seems that all the patients are raging racists. Can I suggest you use your contacts to see if you can get some colonic irrigation on the NHS.

[G STAR RAM]

8 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Brexit hasn't caused the racism/xenophobia - if that's what you mean?

But it very much has empowered people to stop hiding it.

I'm sure you'd rather live in a society where racism is not acceptable, and anyone who has those thoughts understands that it's not acceptable to air those thoughts in public and expect to go unchallenged?

In which case you would surely accept that Brexit (with it's nationalist, xenophobic undertones - the Farage "breaking point" poster etc) hasn't helped that situation?

I didn't see the poster as xenophobic, but understand the point you are trying to make.

Do you accept that letting anyone from the EU into our country, probably at the expense of migrants from outside the EU, is a racist and xenophobic policy?

[Stive Pesley]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Do you accept that letting anyone from the EU into our country, probably at the expense of migrants from outside the EU, is a racist and xenophobic policy?

Erm - you might need to explain that one a bit more. Can you show your working?

Are you saying that the EU freedom of movement rules are racist against people from outside the EU?

[GboroRam]

4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Erm - you might need to explain that one a bit more. Can you show your working?

Are you saying that the EU freedom of movement rules are racist against people from outside the EU?

And by extension it would be less racist and xenophobic to not permit free movement to any of them?

[sage]

1 hour ago, cstand said:

Fair play to you I respect your opinion I hope a solution can be found.

It would have been better if the UK and the EU could have avoided the referendum in the first place that would have been my first choice.

Not on this politics forum for a while please I would ask do not put people on the ignore list as I believe in free speech.

Surely if you think that you should have voted remain. ie to leave things as they are

[G STAR RAM]

26 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Erm - you might need to explain that one a bit more. Can you show your working?

Are you saying that the EU freedom of movement rules are racist against people from outside the EU?

Yes

[Stive Pesley]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes

Not sure where you're going with that one then!

By that logic  - stopping freedom of movement for those from EU countries after we Brexit - that makes us even more racist than the EU

Unless, because you don't think Brexit makes us less racist, you mean you want to allow freedom of movement for all nationalities?

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Not sure where you're going with that one then!

By that logic  - stopping freedom of movement for those from EU countries after we Brexit - that makes us even more racist than the EU

Unless, because you don't think Brexit makes us less racist, you mean you want to allow freedom of movement for all nationalities?

No I dont want freedom of movement from all nationalities.

I want immigration based on merit not just on the basis that we are a member of club.

 

[Andicis]

4 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Yes, those ones. The ones with spitfires on their Facebook profiles, saying "we won the war" (er, you were born in 1950, years after it finished) and "fight the traitors on the streets (er, you're 69, it's more Dad's Army than insurrection).

Please read my words. What did I say about euthanasia? Did I say anything about not being allowed to vote?

I just said the ones shouting about violent resisting the traitors are generally old and senile. Hardly likely to be killing people in the streets.

It's genuinely quite embarrassing when people cite the war as if it's somehow relevant in today's day and age. Definitely part of the Brexit rhetoric, and has been the whole time. 

The whole traitors thing is pretty tragic too. People somehow can't accept that other people vote the way that they did because they believe it's best for them. I support Brexit, and I find the whole thing a little distasteful, same as the ''people who support Brexit are stupid'' line that has been banded about. 

[WharfedaleRam]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

No I dont want freedom of movement from all nationalities.

I want immigration based on merit not just on the basis that we are a member of club.

 

When I was working in the NHS, we had to advertise senior medical jobs in European journals before we could go elsewhere, even if we knew that a particular specialist role could only be recruited from say North America. Even when we did get an applicant from outside of Europe, the hoops we had to jump through before the individual was granted a work permit meant long delays before we got the person in post. As such, many patients had their treatment delayed because of the EU rules applicable to the UK. It’s always been a question in my mind how so many non-Europeans seem to be able to ‘work’ in the Premiership and lower leagues apparently without the same restrictions/conditions.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

You said it pal

It's pretty heartbreaking that the country is being torn apart by such a stupid error of judgement from one guy in the first place

 

Was it an error of judgement ? Cameron (probably) never expected  leave to pass, I'll give you that.

The 2 main reasons he called a referendum is that Tories were bleeding  voters to Farage's UKIP and Europe had been a thorn in the side of every Tory PM since britain joined the common market. It was never about the best interest of the country always about the best interest of Tory party.

[Stive Pesley]

14 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Was it an error of judgement ? Cameron (probably) never expected  leave to pass, I'll give you that.

The 2 main reasons he called a referendum is that Tories were bleeding  voters to Farage's UKIP and Europe had been a thorn in the side of every Tory PM since britain joined the common market. It was never about the best interest of the country always about the best interest of Tory party.

Yep - he thought it would kill UKIP and unite the Tories

How wrong could he have been? ?

 

[Gritstone Ram]

24 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Yep - he thought it would kill UKIP and unite the Tories

How wrong could he have been? ?

 

I’d say UKIP is dead. It certainly hasn’t United anyone.

[GboroRam]

53 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I’d say UKIP is dead. It certainly hasn’t United anyone.

UKIP lost its brain and became the new BNP.

The Brexit Party became UKIP in all but name.

[bigbadbob]

On 05/09/2019 at 00:34, ariotofmyown said:

Such a boring criticism of Corbyn. They have clearly said they will wait until the No Deal legislation has gone through before agreeing to a General Election as agreeing now might cause an election defeat to happen. Especially if Johnson lies again about the date. Desperate from Telegraph.

Anyone read Johnson saying he couldn't bring the rebel Tories back as it would go against the Chief Whip. You know, the one who Johnson told to remove them. I'm almost surprised how quickly Johnson has looked so totally hopeless.

Imagine what the Telegraph would be saying about Corbyn if he has done this prorogue joke and  then sacked 20 odd MPs for voting against him!