James McClean Hypocrisy

[Anon]

29 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Proper snowflake thing to whinge about this... "we only want players who want to play for Ireland". He's always considered himself Irish rather than British this is no secret so why do we act shocked when he took the chance to represent Ireland internationally...? 

 

A storm whipped up over nowt because its him as per. 

 

Also I notice that it's only 7 months until remembrance day and he hasn't bothered to wear a poppy :@ HaPPy tO TaKE a BRitIsH WaGE :@ grr 

You don't think it's a little odd that someone who has always considered themselves Irish as opposed to British chose to play 7 times for Northern Ireland U21s? I'll remind you that James McClean is the one whinging about this issue, most other people are just criticizing his hypocrisy.

[Highgate]

3 hours ago, Anon said:

You don't think it's a little odd that someone who has always considered themselves Irish as opposed to British chose to play 7 times for Northern Ireland U21s? I'll remind you that James McClean is the one whinging about this issue, most other people are just criticizing his hypocrisy.

I don't find it odd. Why is it odd?   Northern Ireland is where he is from, it has both British and Irish citizens and even some who manage to be both.  In an ideal world, everyone who is from there would feel comfortable playing for Northern Ireland, be they British or Irish.  However at the moment, the national football team's fans still seem to identify more with unionism than nationalism or better yet, neither or those.

That's something that McClean, Duffy, Gibson, O'Kane, and Wilson probably learned while playing underage for Northern Ireland before switching to the Republic.  McClean and the others played for Northern Ireland, their home first, but when they felt it wasn't fully accommodating to their sense of national identity...ie Irish, they switched to the country that clearly was, the Republic of Ireland, before they ever made a senior cap.  Surely, that's perfectly understandable and shouldn't be characterized as 'odd'. 

You are right though, there is was no need for McClean to bring it up at all really, it was a needless whinge on his part.  But hypocritical?  Not for me.

 

[IlsonDerby]

4 hours ago, Anon said:

You don't think it's a little odd that someone who has always considered themselves Irish as opposed to British chose to play 7 times for Northern Ireland U21s? I'll remind you that James McClean is the one whinging about this issue, most other people are just criticizing his hypocrisy.

Do I find it odd that he played for the country of his birth? but as soon as the chance arose for a republican to play for the republic of Ireland he took it? No. 

He's not whinging so much as he was asked about it and said that they only want players who want to play for them should play for them. Fair and reasonable comment really?

[Anon]

28 minutes ago, Highgate said:

I don't find it odd. Why is it odd?   Northern Ireland is where he is from, it has both British and Irish citizens and even some who manage to be both.  In an ideal world, everyone who is from there would feel comfortable playing for Northern Ireland, be they British or Irish.  However at the moment, the national football team's fans still seem to identify more with unionism than nationalism or better yet, neither or those.

That's something that McClean, Duffy, Gibson, O'Kane, and Wilson probably learned while playing underage for Northern Ireland before switching to the Republic.  McClean and the others played for Northern Ireland, their home first, but when they felt it wasn't fully accommodating to their sense of national identity...ie Irish, they switched to the country that clearly was, the Republic of Ireland, before they ever made a senior cap.  Surely, that's perfectly understandable and shouldn't be characterized as 'odd'. 

You are right though, there is was no need for McClean to bring it up at all really, it was a needless whinge on his part.  But hypocritical?  Not for me.

 

Come on. Every single one of those players will have been more than aware of the situation regarding some of Northern Ireland's "fans" due to the nonsense that Neil Lennon went through. You surely don't expect me to believe that all these Norther Ireland natives were completely oblivious regarding the situation before they decided to accept U21 call ups?

I do actually agree with what McClean said, but I don't think he's in any position to be posturing over the issue.

[Anon]

13 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Do I find it odd that he played for the country of his birth? but as soon as the chance arose for a republican to play for the republic of Ireland he took it? No. 

He's not whinging so much as he was asked about it and said that they only want players who want to play for them should play for them. Fair and reasonable comment really?

Do I find it odd that Declan Rice played for the country of his father's birth? but as soon as the chance arose for an Englishman to play for England he took it? No.

[Highgate]

5 minutes ago, Anon said:

Come on. Every single one of those players will have been more than aware of the situation regarding some of Northern Ireland's "fans" due to the nonsense that Neil Lennon went through. You surely don't expect me to believe that all these Norther Ireland natives were completely oblivious regarding the situation before they decided to accept U21 call ups?

I do actually agree with what McClean said, but I don't think he's in any position to be posturing over the issue.

Yeah, surely they should have suspected and they would have known about the anthem for sure, so there is a lot of truth in what you say.  However they did try to play for the country of their birth first, and yet all of those mentioned switched to the Republic before reaching senior level for some reason. Maybe their first hand experiences didn't meet their expectations. 

These players were trying to find the country that best reflected their unchanging identity as they saw it, that doesn't seem unusual to me.  And it's quite different from Rice, in my opinion, who switched from being Irish to English in a manner of speaking  (which is totally understandable too given his mixed family background).

Crucially, all the Northern players made the switch before senior level whereas Rice waited until he had already played senior games for the Republic before choosing England. 

In other words, McClean's and Rice's situation were too different for the charge of hypocrisy to be appropriate.

[Sith Happens]

7 hours ago, Anon said:

You don't think it's a little odd that someone who has always considered themselves Irish as opposed to British chose to play 7 times for Northern Ireland U21s? I'll remind you that James McClean is the one whinging about this issue, most other people are just criticizing his hypocrisy.

The majority of people in NI consider themselves Irish or Northern Irish.

[IlsonDerby]

21 hours ago, Anon said:

Do I find it odd that Declan Rice played for the country of his father's birth? but as soon as the chance arose for an Englishman to play for England he took it? No.

Neither do I!

Am I gonna get my pants in a twist because James McClean said they only want players who want to play for Ireland playing for them? Also no. 

[BaaLocks]

18 hours ago, Paul71 said:

The majority of people in NI consider themselves Irish or Northern Irish.

True - but many Northern Irish consider themselves to be British which clouds the argument slightly. Btw I do understand that English does not equal British - indeed, many nations have somewhat made a rod for their own back with this one. I'd be amazed if more than a couple of Jack Charlton's Ireland team even knew who Eamon De Valera was. Similarly, the Jamaica team that qualified for the World Cup could hardly claim to be a product of home grown talent. It's the same in rugby (Italy, Japan) and even cricket (there's more chance you'll get a bowl of bunny chow in the Lords pavilion now than cucumber sandwiches). And we've not even got onto athletics (Zola Budd) or even boxing (Lennox Lewis) or tennis (Greg Rusedski).

So, what to do? Understand that the rules are in place, they are what they are and you use them as you wish. If you don't like it then probably best to just shut up, they're not going to change - bit like trying to get a ref to change a penalty decision.

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

True - but many Northern Irish consider themselves to be British which clouds the argument slightly. Btw I do understand that English does not equal British - indeed, many nations have somewhat made a rod for their own back with this one. I'd be amazed if more than a couple of Jack Charlton's Ireland team even knew who Eamon De Valera was. Similarly, the Jamaica team that qualified for the World Cup could hardly claim to be a product of home grown talent. It's the same in rugby (Italy, Japan) and even cricket (there's more chance you'll get a bowl of bunny chow in the Lords pavilion now than cucumber sandwiches). And we've not even got onto athletics (Zola Budd) or even boxing (Lennox Lewis) or tennis (Greg Rusedski).

So, what to do? Understand that the rules are in place, they are what they are and you use them as you wish. If you don't like it then probably best to just shut up, they're not going to change - bit like trying to get a ref to change a penalty decision.

Indeed. I think for me its not an issue Mcclean chose to play for NI though as its part of ireland so if you are Irish then you are still representing an irish country. 

Had he chosen to play for England then ROI it might seem different. Northern Ireland is not part of Britain so representing them should not be seen to be representing Britain.

 

[BaaLocks]

9 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Indeed. I think for me its not an issue Mcclean chose to play for NI though as its part of ireland so if you are Irish then you are still representing an irish country. 

Had he chosen to play for England then ROI it might seem different. Northern Ireland is not part of Britain so representing them should not be seen to be representing Britain.

 

Well, on your passport it says 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' as Great Britain is actually the geographical description of the island we live on, as opposed to the island of Ireland. But in terms of 'Team GB', home nations, freedom of movement and many other areas then there is little debate that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and not part of Ireland. Without unravelling the history of The Troubles there are some who would want it to be but the only thing they share - here, today - is a land mass.

[Highgate]

7 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Well, on your passport it says 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' as Great Britain is actually the geographical description of the island we live on, as opposed to the island of Ireland. But in terms of 'Team GB', home nations, freedom of movement and many other areas then there is little debate that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and not part of Ireland. Without unravelling the history of The Troubles there are some who would want it to be but the only thing they share - here, today - is a land mass.

Well for nationalists they also share a common history/culture with the rest of the island. And they share citizenship of the Republic if they so wish, by virtue of being born in Northern Ireland as laid out in the GFA.  Which is not the case for the rest of the UK obviously. 

A collective term for someone from the UK, other than 'British' would be helpful. It would also help if the Republic of Ireland wasn't officially called Ireland in a spiteful attempt to ignore NI's existence entirely.

This has turned entirely political.  McClean has a habit of doing that to football forums.

[Sith Happens]

21 hours ago, Highgate said:

Well for nationalists they also share a common history/culture with the rest of the island. And they share citizenship of the Republic if they so wish, by virtue of being born in Northern Ireland as laid out in the GFA.  Which is not the case for the rest of the UK obviously. 

A collective term for someone from the UK, other than 'British' would be helpful. It would also help if the Republic of Ireland wasn't officially called Ireland in a spiteful attempt to ignore NI's existence entirely.

This has turned entirely political.  McClean has a habit of doing that to football forums.

Not sure ROI is officially called Ireland,  the term Ireland refers to the island of Ireland including roi and ni

[Highgate]

I'm pretty sure about this @Paul71 

From the 1937 Irish Constitution;

ARTICLE 4:

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

And

Seems pretty watertight.

Although your version would be a lot more diplomatic and make more sense, as it is, the Republic of Ireland is merely a convenient description of the 26 county state and not the official name.

[GB SPORTS]

On ‎30‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 22:28, dog said:

The issue is the concept of the nation state. 

Take Italy; before the Risorgimento people saw themselves as Florentines or Neopolitans.

After Garibaldi etc al, suddenly they had to see themselves as Italians

What makes a state? Culture? Language? Geography?

 

Politics