Lampard and the Chelsea job

[David]

9 hours ago, Alpha said:

I don't understand how you can be happy with the points. 

Not saying I don't believe it or it's wrong. Just I can't understand being happy with just any win.

Football is leisure to me. It's not my job, it doesn't pay Bills. In fact it costs me time and money to view it. So I want to be entertained by skill and exciting attacking. 

Of course there's games where it doesn't work out. There's games where I can understand the players need to just bag the win because it is their job and it does pay their bills.

I can boot a ball, you can head a ball. Maybe not as well as Stoke in 2010 but still... if my team wins every game doing that then I would eventually get bored. I want to see moments of team and individual skill that really emphasises the difference between Premier League and Sunday League. 

It's not football snobbery. I just have to make time and money for football so I will only do it as long as I enjoy it. 

There's no right way to play and there's skill in hoofball. There's just no excitement in teams built to defend and hoping to pinch a goal. Even a well built masterclass in defence team. 

Sports are competitive, the goal is to win.

If I wanted just entertainment I would go to the cinema and watch a film, or a gig. I wouldn’t put myself in a position where I’m demanding entertainment from a football team that’s focus is on winning.

I also don’t buy this points are secondary argument at all.

We all know that Cocu could play the most entertaining football we’ve seen, but if we’re losing games fans will be the first on his back, long before the club.

Easy to deny in the summer whilst no games take place, pass Luton off the park with 20 shots on target to their 1 and lose 1-0, lets see how many are applauding the entertainment.

Football snobbery is a thing and it’s getting worse, hoof ball is thrown around the second the ball leaves the ground, back in the day Beckham would send one 40 yards down the pitch and people would be in awe, but now it’s all tippy happy stuff where possession stats appear to be more important than the scoreline.

Rowett did not play hoof ball. He just didn’t.

I want to see Derby win games, win leagues, cups and if that means the defending our backsides off for 89 minutes and pinch one in the last minute, I will be happy as Larry.

The minute I lose that desire I will walk away from football and put my money into the local cinema. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

19 minutes ago, David said:

Sports are competitive, the goal is to win.

If I wanted just entertainment I would go to the cinema and watch a film, or a gig. I wouldn’t put myself in a position where I’m demanding entertainment from a football team that’s focus is on winning.

I also don’t buy this points are secondary argument at all.

We all know that Cocu could play the most entertaining football we’ve seen, but if we’re losing games fans will be the first on his back, long before the club.

Easy to deny in the summer whilst no games take place, pass Luton off the park with 20 shots on target to their 1 and lose 1-0, lets see how many are applauding the entertainment.

Football snobbery is a thing and it’s getting worse, hoof ball is thrown around the second the ball leaves the ground, back in the day Beckham would send one 40 yards down the pitch and people would be in awe, but now it’s all tippy happy stuff where possession stats appear to be more important than the scoreline.

Rowett did not play hoof ball. He just didn’t.

I want to see Derby win games, win leagues, cups and if that means the defending our backsides off for 89 minutes and pinch one in the last minute, I will be happy as Larry.

The minute I lose that desire I will walk away from football and put my money into the local cinema. 

If you're just wanting to enjoy associating yourself with winning go support a glamour team.

we all know there's far more invested in it than that. Winning is important, of course it is, but it's not the whole. A team you can be proud of, a team you willingly give you love to, a team that entertains and satisfies.

winning just by knocking lumps and scoring from set pieces ultimately isn't that satisfying, but a team that loses all time isn't either.

[Rambam]

Passing the ball 40 yards successfully isn’t hoof ball though, is it? Beckham did it, so did Hoddle. Even Huddlestone does it sometimes. 

[David]

15 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

If you're just wanting to enjoy associating yourself with winning go support a glamour team.

we all know there's far more invested in it than that. Winning is important, of course it is, but it's not the whole. A team you can be proud of, a team you willingly give you love to, a team that entertains and satisfies.

winning just by knocking lumps and scoring from set pieces ultimately isn't that satisfying, but a team that loses all time isn't either.

I’m happy where I am thank you, I have no interest of attaching myself to a big club just to see my team win week in week out.

I want to see my club, Derby win week in week out, lift cups, trophies and I’m happy to dedicate my life support to that, even if we fail to reach the top.

As I say, if I ever lose that desire to see Derby in the Premier League, competing in Europe and just want to be entertained at the weekend I will walk away from football, I won’t just transfer myself to another club. 

I’m 30 odd years deep into this now, there’s no going back.

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

If you're just wanting to enjoy associating yourself with winning go support a glamour team.

It's not about *associating* yourself with a glamour team! It's about supporting *your* team and wanting them to do well and win. Of the doing well and the winning, winning (fairly) is what sport is all about. 

[Alph]

15 minutes ago, David said:

Sports are competitive, the goal is to win.

If I wanted just entertainment I would go to the cinema and watch a film, or a gig. I wouldn’t put myself in a position where I’m demanding entertainment from a football team that’s focus is on winning.

I also don’t buy this points are secondary argument at all.

We all know that Cocu could play the most entertaining football we’ve seen, but if we’re losing games fans will be the first on his back, long before the club.

Easy to deny in the summer whilst no games take place, pass Luton off the park with 20 shots on target to their 1 and lose 1-0, lets see how many are applauding the entertainment.

Football snobbery is a thing and it’s getting worse, hoof ball is thrown around the second the ball leaves the ground, back in the day Beckham would send one 40 yards down the pitch and people would be in awe, but now it’s all tippy happy stuff where possession stats appear to be more important than the scoreline.

Rowett did not play hoof ball. He just didn’t.

I want to see Derby win games, win leagues, cups and if that means the defending our backsides off for 89 minutes and pinch one in the last minute, I will be happy as Larry.

The minute I lose that desire I will walk away from football and put my money into the local cinema. 

But the local cinema hasn't got the real life drama and real highs and lows of sport.

Points aren't secondary at all. They're just as important. When I pay money to watch games I hope to have a decent balance. Good football and losing is no good, boring football and winning is no good either. I want good football and winning. I accept the level of the club and that it's not possible but I do expect to see it tried. 

I love boxing. But you get many fights where one guy comes to spoil it. He knows he stands little to no chance of winning and he just wants to survive. He runs and clinches. Nobody watches boxing to see that. But it's part of that game. A fight with one fighter. It's common. It's not boxing snobbery to expect two guys to have a go. The sport would die without it's entertainers. 

I do agree football snobbery is a thing. I'm just saying for some people they just want to see the sort of skillful passing and moving you won't see a likeness of on any park. Because money and time aren't limitless and they don't want to spend both on a game they aren't excited by. 

I'm glad you brought Rowett up. I never liked the bloke but I've agreed with much of what you've said about him. He didn't play hoofball and it is a bit of snobbery to say he did. Although some people know he didn't but just don't want to give him any credit. 

Rowett encouraged some of the best passing you will see in this league from Huddlestone. Like you mention Beckham. 1 pass doing what would take Man City 15 to do. 1 pass that me and you couldn't nail in 30 attempts. 

My problem with Rowett was just that his team would sit back to counter attack even when it didn't suit the game. He'd do it when we were losing or were at home and the other team had no intention of coming at us. I just thought there's no future in this. That if we did get promoted that everytime we go 1-0 down the game would be over because he'd still insist on playing like we are 1-0 up. 

So many games were boring because we took no risks and waited for someone to attack us. 

I've seen more exciting 0-0 games than some of our wins in that season. I've come away feeling entertained and excited by the future in games we've drew than some we won under him. Wolves away was the final straw. Defended a losing position!

That's why I would put Lampard over Rowett. Less points and goals etc. But he made an attempt to play attacking football and be exciting. We were more vulnerable and more naive but the games were more entertaining imo. Not massively so. That's why I put Mac above both. 

There were and probably are people on the forum that used to say you can't get promoted playing pretty football. It's been done. You can have your cake and eat it.

You just have to remember that some days you'll lose whatever style. You can't win all the time and you can't play pretty all the time. But I hope to see Derby try to do both whenever they can.

[GB SPORTS]

23 minutes ago, Rambam said:

Passing the ball 40 yards successfully isn’t hoof ball though, is it? Beckham did it, so did Hoddle. Even Huddlestone does it sometimes. 

Huddlestone does it better than most anyone (including Hoddle,Brady or Ace) it is his pace that lets him down.(Badly)

[Comrade 86]

It's not either or is it? Pretty football or points. The ideal for me is to be winning more games than we lose but with a bit of style where possible. We all appreciate that occasonally it's going to be trench warfare, especially when we're out of form and those games can be satisfying too if we graft a win through hard work and sheer bloody-mindedness, but watching us launch wave after wave of attacks against Manure, Norwich and Leeds for example, well that was as close to footballing bliss as i've come in bloody yonks. I'd like more of that please!

We'll have to grind out results every week in the Prem so let's play some football while we can!

[David]

17 minutes ago, Alpha said:

But the local cinema hasn't got the real life drama and real highs and lows of sport.

Points aren't secondary at all. They're just as important. When I pay money to watch games I hope to have a decent balance. Good football and losing is no good, boring football and winning is no good either. I want good football and winning. I accept the level of the club and that it's not possible but I do expect to see it tried. 

Don’t think our thoughts are that far apart without quoting your full post.

Ideally you can find that balance, I’m not anti good football, the only thing that I can see separates us is without the points, means nothing. 

Good football will always be subjective though, whilst some found Rowett’s football boring, I found it more entertaining than anything Clement, Pearson or Clough served up. 

Had it not been for the football we saw under McClaren I’m not sure it would have been viewed in the same negative light. 

His departure after signing the new deal after 6 months didn’t do him any favours either.

Anyway, Rowett was so 2017. Deserves to go in Room 101 now. I blame @RamNut for bringing him up.

[RamNut]

Birmingham fans didn't want it.

Derby fans didn't want it.

even stoke fans didn't want it.

 

[FindernRam]

23 hours ago, David said:

The minute I lose that desire I will walk away from football and put my money into the local cinema. 

Only once!

Ticket, drink, popcorn and bar of choccy will set you back almost as much as a match entry.

Then there's the fantastic atmosphere, the rustle of sweet papers, Maltesers bouncing down the steps, the soft glow of mobile phones adding ambience to the quiet moments, teenage girls giggling at the latest Instagram. 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 hours ago, FindernRam said:

Only once!

Ticket, drink, popcorn and bar of choccy will set you back almost as much as a match entry.

Then there's the fantastic atmosphere, the rustle of sweet papers, Maltesers bouncing down the steps, the soft glow of mobile phones adding ambience to the quiet moments, teenage girls giggling at the latest Instagram. 

 

You forgot the 40 minutes of adverts....

[mwram1973]

Quote

I’m happy where I am thank you, I have no interest of attaching myself to a big club just to see my team win week in week out.

I want to see my club, Derby win week in week out, lift cups, trophies and I’m happy to dedicate my life support to that, even if we fail to reach the top.

As I say, if I ever lose that desire to see Derby in the Premier League, competing in Europe and just want to be entertained at the weekend I will walk away from football, I won’t just transfer myself to another club. 

I’m 30 odd years deep into this now, there’s no going back.

If Rowett was winning most games and we were top of the league PP would have been packed.

Fans want to see the team win, 4-0 is great when it happens but it's rare, 1-0 most games would still pack the stadium out.

I hate coming away from games if we lost, even if we played great football it still stinks and ya feel crap.

I want Derby to win and I don't care how they do it!.

[Grumpy Git]

Lets say we have played 89 minutes of absolute Barca-esque footie, but by chance have only manged to get a 1-0 lead, (goalie having a worldie, etc.).

Oppo punts the ball up our end and they grab a 90th minute equaliser - game ends 1-1.

Not one person after the game will talk about our passing.

[loweman2]

Has he gone yet ?

whats everybody on about ? Where’s frank ?

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

11 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Lets say we have played 89 minutes of absolute Barca-esque footie, but by chance have only manged to get a 1-0 lead, (goalie having a worldie, etc.).

Oppo punts the ball up our end and they grab a 90th minute equaliser - game ends 1-1.

Not one person after the game will talk about our passing.

I would, and I'd also say that if it wasn't for the goalie having a worldie, we could have scored 6 today. 

[Alph]

14 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Lets say we have played 89 minutes of absolute Barca-esque footie, but by chance have only manged to get a 1-0 lead, (goalie having a worldie, etc.).

Oppo punts the ball up our end and they grab a 90th minute equaliser - game ends 1-1.

Not one person after the game will talk about our passing.

You can't control the score but you can the performance. 

Think, all we need to do from there is learn from 1 mistake where the other team has their keeper to thank for not getting smashed. 

If you have the ball they can't score. Sure you need to make sure you do something with it to win but still..

It isn't a choice though. Play well and lose or play ugly and win. You can play pretty and win and you can definitely play ugly and  lose. That we all know from many years experience and Nigel Pearson

[KCG]

Why's this one still going? He's gone... move on.

[Parsnip]

On 08/07/2019 at 09:55, RadioactiveWaste said:

If you're just wanting to enjoy associating yourself with winning go support a glamour team.

I'm with @David on this one. It's all about the win. I played 11 a side last weekend for the first time in ages and at half time having been out passed for 45 mins I was the first one to suggest going full hoof just to get some shots off. Getting the ball in the net is what it's all about - getting the win.

Negative, unadventurous sideways football is no good to anyone - but I don't mind a bit of hoof at all.

[Mucker1884]

Can we have a blue theme for this page please.   :-)