Lampard and the Chelsea job

[RoyMac5]

Every time this threads rises to the top I'm gonna think they've sacked Lampard! ?

[RamNut]

Some pretty wretched posts that don't reflect too well on a small selection of Derby supporters.

 

[Igorlegend11]

9 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Just now and again this forum is more like Twitter 

Et voila.... another short post that can't be debated ??

[Comrade 86]

This is like when your fit GF dumps you and initially you're in bits. Two nights later, her even fitter mate jumps you, ***** you senseless and you're left wondering why you were upset in the first place.

 

[RamNut]

Whilst we are hopeful over the appointment of cocu, lets remember that we haven't kicked a ball yet. 

What Frank achieved shouldn't be forgotten. We wouldn't even have Cocu if it wasn't for the transformation which frank delivered.

suddenly rowett achieved a respectable 6th? Better than frank according to some. A few reminders might be useful.

• ditched bryson
• sold hughes
• dropped vydra for the final play off games
• fulham away 0-2 and a Malmo award for not even trying
• sunderland home 0-4, burton away 1-3
• anti-football
• the oldest team in all four divisions
• signings we are going to lose money on

 Whereas frank......

• feelgood factor throughout the club
• transformed the playing style
• tremendous away wins at west brom, norwich and leeds
• play off finalists
• built the foundations of a good team
• provided a pathway for younger players
• put Derby on the map again.

We are right to be disappointed to have fallen at the final hurdle. We can look at the last 20 minutes at Wembley and think "what if". But who would have thought that we could even tear villa and leeds apart like we did. Would Rowett's teams have ripped into the opposition like that? Not a chance. 

We are right to be disappointed that frank left after only one season albeit for his dream job. The communications were mis-managed and the final goodbye's were somewhat brief - even abrupt. It feels like we were ditched because the harsh reality is that we were. The feelgood factor was somewhat soured but that shouldn't detract from a terrific season and some real progress made.

Are we the finished article? No, not at all.

we were over reliant on loans, and we still have a significant number of rowett's oldies and flops to content with. We have alot of players whose contracts are ending. We have a slightly unbalanced squad. Frank would have no doubt addressed these issues. 

With Cocu,its now a big step into the unknown. A step we had no option but to take. Lets hope it works out but its too early to say that we are far better off with the new man, or that he is more qualified to manage Chelsea than Frank is. 

We are bound to have to take a step backwards before we can go forwards again. We've wasted half the summer watching the managerial shenanigans unfold, whilst potential signings have gone elsewhere. Its put us back - maybe by a whole season. But whats done is done. 

Time to move on.

 

[Steve How Hard?]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Whilst we are hopeful over the appointment of cocu, lets remember that we haven't kicked a ball yet. 

What Frank achieved shouldn't be forgotten. We wouldn't even have Cocu if it wasn't for the transformation which frank delivered.

suddenly rowett achieved a respectable 6th? Better than frank according to some. A few reminders might be useful.

• ditched bryson
• sold hughes
• dropped vydra for the final play off games
• fulham away 0-2 and a Malmo award for not even trying
• sunderland home 0-4, burton away 1-3
• anti-football
• the oldest team in all four divisions
• signings we are going to lose money on

 Whereas frank......

• feelgood factor throughout the club
• transformed the playing style
• tremendous away wins at west brom, norwich and leeds
• play off finalists
• built the foundations of a good team
• provided a pathway for younger players
• put Derby on the map again.

We are right to be disappointed to have fallen at the final hurdle. We can look at the last 20 minutes at Wembley and think "what if". But who would have thought that we could even tear villa and leeds apart like we did. Would Rowett's teams have ripped into the opposition like that? Not a chance. 

We are right to be disappointed that frank left after only one season albeit for his dream job. The communications were mis-managed and the final goodbye's were somewhat brief - even abrupt. It feels like we were ditched because the harsh reality is that we were. The feelgood factor was somewhat soured but that shouldn't detract from a terrific season and some real progress made.

Are we the finished article? No, not at all.

we were over reliant on loans, and we still have a significant number of rowett's oldies and flops to content with. We have alot of players whose contracts are ending. We have a slightly unbalanced squad. Frank would have no doubt addressed these issues. 

With Cocu,its now a big step into the unknown. A step we had no option but to take. Lets hope it works out but its too early to say that we are far better off with the new man, or that he is more qualified to manage Chelsea than Frank is. 

We are bound to have to take a step backwards before we can go forwards again. We've wasted half the summer watching the managerial shenanigans unfold, whilst potential signings have gone elsewhere. Its put us back - maybe by a whole season. But whats done is done. 

Time to move on.

 

Perfectly summed up. Close the thread and that chapter in our history and as you say, move on. 

[superzak]

Still cant forgive him for starting the game with Villa with both Marriott and Waggers on the bench

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Whilst we are hopeful over the appointment of cocu, lets remember that we haven't kicked a ball yet. 

What Frank achieved shouldn't be forgotten. We wouldn't even have Cocu if it wasn't for the transformation which frank delivered.

suddenly rowett achieved a respectable 6th? Better than frank according to some. A few reminders might be useful.

• ditched bryson
• sold hughes
• dropped vydra for the final play off games
• fulham away 0-2 and a Malmo award for not even trying
• sunderland home 0-4, burton away 1-3
• anti-football
• the oldest team in all four divisions
• signings we are going to lose money on

 Whereas frank......

• feelgood factor throughout the club
• transformed the playing style
• tremendous away wins at west brom, norwich and leeds
• play off finalists
• built the foundations of a good team
• provided a pathway for younger players
• put Derby on the map again.

We are right to be disappointed to have fallen at the final hurdle. We can look at the last 20 minutes at Wembley and think "what if". But who would have thought that we could even tear villa and leeds apart like we did. Would Rowett's teams have ripped into the opposition like that? Not a chance. 

We are right to be disappointed that frank left after only one season albeit for his dream job. The communications were mis-managed and the final goodbye's were somewhat brief - even abrupt. It feels like we were ditched because the harsh reality is that we were. The feelgood factor was somewhat soured but that shouldn't detract from a terrific season and some real progress made.

Are we the finished article? No, not at all.

we were over reliant on loans, and we still have a significant number of rowett's oldies and flops to content with. We have alot of players whose contracts are ending. We have a slightly unbalanced squad. Frank would have no doubt addressed these issues. 

With Cocu,its now a big step into the unknown. A step we had no option but to take. Lets hope it works out but its too early to say that we are far better off with the new man, or that he is more qualified to manage Chelsea than Frank is. 

We are bound to have to take a step backwards before we can go forwards again. We've wasted half the summer watching the managerial shenanigans unfold, whilst potential signings have gone elsewhere. Its put us back - maybe by a whole season. But whats done is done. 

Time to move on.

I don’t like to defend Rowett, but only 4 of his signings remain at the club don’t they?  Huddlestone, Davies, Wisdom and Lawrence.

Hudd I think will move on, and there probably will be interest - although no doubt we will lose some modest money on him.  Davies (if he can stay fit) still has a job to do for us this season imo (even if not first choice) and I think we paid less than a million for him. Lawrence I think we could get our money back in this market - if played in the right position he is worth the money paid (Cocu has to decide if he wants to use him in a more central role). Wisdom is the big issue, but can Rowett really be blamed that he has regressed so much - there aren’t many who were disappointed with his signing at the time (although I was one who didn’t ever quite understand the hype).

l agree Lampard did a much, much better job than Rowett - he made the future look so much brighter. It is a shame we didn’t get to keep him for another year, as one more year of continuity would have put the club back in great stead (not necessarily in the Prem) but on a really sound footing. Cocu l think is probably the better coach, and has a proven track record, but it Is probably going to take him 2 or 3 windows to get his formula and style imbedded. The upcoming season will be defined by the quality of loans we can get - hopefully the top teams (not just Chelsea) will see we have a coach, philosophy and training academy that would be beneficial to their starlets development. Lampard contributed greatly to this, but credit also to Morris (Mel) who has over the last year or two made positive decisions that match his significant financial contribution.

[bigbadbob]

15 hours ago, Igorlegend11 said:

Et voila.... another short post that can't be debated ??

Whatever

[David]

3 hours ago, RamNut said:

suddenly rowett achieved a respectable 6th? Better than frank according to some. A few reminders might be useful.

• ditched bryson
• sold hughes
• dropped vydra for the final play off games
• fulham away 0-2 and a Malmo award for not even trying
• sunderland home 0-4, burton away 1-3
• anti-football
• the oldest team in all four divisions
• signings we are going to lose money on

 Whereas frank......

• feelgood factor throughout the club
• transformed the playing style
• tremendous away wins at west brom, norwich and leeds
• play off finalists
• built the foundations of a good team
• provided a pathway for younger players
• put Derby on the map again.

I mean it’s not really a fair comparison though is it?

Rowett has ditched Bryson as a mark against his name whilst many will argue he’s lost a yard and it’s the right time to move on 12 months later having seen his contract expire under Lampard. Personally I would have allowed him to leave last summer for Cardiff if the reported interest was  true.

We have reminders of the defeats at Sunderland and Burton under Rowett, no mention of the defeats away to Rotherham or Bolton under Lampard which were equally awful in terms of result v poor opposition.

You have dropped Vydra in play offs as a mark against Rowett whilst no mention of the largely discussed Waghorn and Marriott on the bench at Wembley. Not to mention Vydra being sold under Lampard’s tenure yet doesn’t make his list, nor does reaching the play off semi finals.

I’m not out to lay into Lampard but this comparison list is so one sided and could easily have been done without the above and still made Lampard’s tenure more favourable which it was.

I have already posted elsewhere for me he has been our best manager for years when looking at the bigger picture, I’m not going to change my mind because he left us, but I’m also in the lonely boat that believes Rowett’s tenure wasn’t as bad as fans are making it out to be, and whilst more disappointed by his departure I’m not going to lay into the bloke now. 

Recall mostly a positive reaction to the news when he signed a new contract, if anything the football improved following the new deal, we actually went unbeaten from the start of December to the 10th February which was 12 games, 7 of which were wins. Lampard’s longest unbeaten run? 6 games. 

Yes we had the Sunderland horror show but we also stuck one up Warnock’s chuff 3-1. 

Both had horror games, both had had games where they perhaps should have played X instead of X, both also pulled off great results and took us to the play offs then left us shortly after.

I have fond memories of both seasons for different reasons, think it’s a shame we can’t enjoy one without smashing into another, wasn’t that long ago finishing anywhere near top 6 was a pipe dream. 

[Boycie]

All I remember from the Rowett era is walking away from PP after scoring 5 goals feeling unimpressed by the performance.

Also the away trip to Fulham in the play offs.

What is it with Derby and weird play off starting line ups?

[David]

2 minutes ago, Boycie said:

All I remember from the Rowett era is walking away from PP after scoring 5 goals feeling unimpressed by the performance.

Also the away trip to Fulham in the play offs.

What is it with Derby and weird play off starting line ups?

Were they weird or just weird because we lost, any explanation for the lineup/tactics will be laughed off when all three probably had sound thinking and thought they was making the right call to take this club all.

It’s ok to sit after a game and ask what if, would we, do you think....I would say that’s pretty normal behaviour for a football fan. I would never sit here and say had we started Bryson we would have gone up in 2014 fact. Or had Marriott started we would have gone up fact.

Fact noun a thing that is known or proved to be true.

(Not saying your have claimed anything as fact)

[Boycie]

7 minutes ago, David said:

Were they weird or just weird because we lost, any explanation for the lineup/tactics will be laughed off when all three probably had sound thinking and thought they was making the right call to take this club all.

It’s ok to sit after a game and ask what if, would we, do you think....I would say that’s pretty normal behaviour for a football fan. I would never sit here and say had we started Bryson we would have gone up in 2014 fact. Or had Marriott started we would have gone up fact.

Fact noun a thing that is known or proved to be true.

(Not saying your have claimed anything as fact)

I wonder what the debriefing post Wembley meeting went like? 

Regards team selection I mean.  

Who can say we’d gone up fact? But you also can’t say we wouldn’t.

I can say that in my opinion that had the inform midfielder in 2014 played from the start, and the striker who’d just bagged a brace under extreme pressure at Leeds had started both games we had better odds of winning.

No recognised out and out striker starting was very weird.

Couple that with the golden boot winner left on the bench at Fulham.

[David]

I have locked this to avoid bumping, the topic where Rowett’s new contract was announced.

To be honest I think this is typical football fan behaviour, had Rowett left in January most would have laid into him then, but because he signed which was seen as giving the finger to Stoke support grew for him. 

Imagine if Lampard signed a new deal this summer? Unlikely we would be seeing any “Fat Frank” comments, for what it’s worth I wish I had a body like Frank. 
 

 

[David]

5 minutes ago, Boycie said:

I wonder what the debriefing post Wembley meeting went like? 

Regards team selection I mean.  

Who can say we’d gone up fact? But you also can’t say we wouldn’t.

I can say that in my opinion that had the inform midfielder in 2014 played from the start, and the striker who’d just bagged a brace under extreme pressure at Leeds had started both games we had better odds of winning.

No recognised out and out striker starting was very weird.

Couple that with the golden boot winner left on the bench at Fulham.

I’m not saying we wouldn’t have won had we started Marriott, but I’m not sure we would have seen the same effect Marriott had on the game had he played from the start. Villa were 2-0, the job was effectively done on us, they had no reason to continue piling the pressure on and taking the risks. 

We question the team selection and the tactics, but the 2 goals we conceded were horrific mistakes, you can’t account for those in your game plan. Roos collects the ball and the game finishes 1-1, goes to extra time with a fresh Marriott on the pitch, who knows? 

Or Roos collects the ball, Villa continue to press and Grealish sticks one top bin in the next attack.

It’s gone now, we can only go again.

[Sith Happens]

38 minutes ago, David said:

I mean it’s not really a fair comparison though is it?

but I’m also in the lonely boat that believes Rowett’s tenure wasn’t as bad as fans are making it out to be, and whilst more disappointed by his departure I’m not going to lay into the bloke now. 

Recall mostly a positive reaction to the news when he signed a new contract, if anything the football improved following the new deal, we actually went unbeaten from the start of December to the 10th February which was 12 games, 7 of which were wins. Lampard’s longest unbeaten run? 6 games. 
Yes we had the Sunderland horror show but we also stuck one up Warnock’s chuff 3-1. 

Both had horror games, both had had games where they perhaps should have played X instead of X, both also pulled off great results and took us to the play offs then left us shortly after.

I have fond memories of both seasons for different reasons, think it’s a shame we can’t enjoy one without smashing into another, wasn’t that long ago finishing anywhere near top 6 was a pipe dream. 

Agree with you, we did have some horror shows under both, but when Rowett ball worked it was exciting. Counter attacking football doesnt automatically mean negative football. I was never a big fan of 2 defensive midfielders though as i think it affected both negatively, thorne moreso.

I do think Rowett lost it a bit towards the end and do think the way he treated Thorne and to a lesser degree Keogh after Sunderland was appalling. That said still disappointed Frank didnt give Thorne a chance, dont care what people say he played fine mostly under rowett in a restrictive formation.

I think Rowett was never as popular as Lampard, just look at the 5-0 home win against Hull, some were claiming on here we were lucky to win never mind win 5-0.

And for us to criticise Frank for Wembley is easy as we lost. Had he played Marriott and Waghorn from the start and found ourselves 4-0 down at half time the hindsight experts would no doubt be saying he should have played more conservatively and brought them on later on for impact.

 

[TimRam]

Imagine if we had got promoted...would be even more gutted about Frank leaving. As it stands happy with his replacement.

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, David said:

I mean it’s not really a fair comparison though is it?

Rowett has ditched Bryson as a mark against his name whilst many will argue he’s lost a yard and it’s the right time to move on 12 months later having seen his contract expire under Lampard. Personally I would have allowed him to leave last summer for Cardiff if the reported interest was  true.

We have reminders of the defeats at Sunderland and Burton under Rowett, no mention of the defeats away to Rotherham or Bolton under Lampard which were equally awful in terms of result v poor opposition.

You have dropped Vydra in play offs as a mark against Rowett whilst no mention of the largely discussed Waghorn and Marriott on the bench at Wembley. Not to mention Vydra being sold under Lampard’s tenure yet doesn’t make his list, nor does reaching the play off semi finals.

I’m not out to lay into Lampard but this comparison list is so one sided and could easily have been done without the above and still made Lampard’s tenure more favourable which it was.

I have already posted elsewhere for me he has been our best manager for years when looking at the bigger picture, I’m not going to change my mind because he left us, but I’m also in the lonely boat that believes Rowett’s tenure wasn’t as bad as fans are making it out to be, and whilst more disappointed by his departure I’m not going to lay into the bloke now. 

Recall mostly a positive reaction to the news when he signed a new contract, if anything the football improved following the new deal, we actually went unbeaten from the start of December to the 10th February which was 12 games, 7 of which were wins. Lampard’s longest unbeaten run? 6 games. 

Yes we had the Sunderland horror show but we also stuck one up Warnock’s chuff 3-1. 

Both had horror games, both had had games where they perhaps should have played X instead of X, both also pulled off great results and took us to the play offs then left us shortly after.

I have fond memories of both seasons for different reasons, think it’s a shame we can’t enjoy one without smashing into another, wasn’t that long ago finishing anywhere near top 6 was a pipe dream. 

Bryson - the reason i mention it is because this was apparently rowett's big idea. Ditch hughes and bryson as they were "too small" and we would never get anywhere with such a titchy midfield. The decimation of the midfield followed. We ended up with no midfield preferring to play two pot plants in front of the back four. Ditching hughes and bryson was also about ripping the group apart. Frank had a more sensible view of evolution rather than revolution.

defeats - the two defeats i mentioned weren't just defeats. They were annihilations by two teams who got relegated. You suggest the defeats at bolton and rotherham were equally bad? If memory serves me correctly, the rotherham game was 0-1 settled by a highly dubious penalty decision. Bolton - 0-1 - i seem to remember that their goal game from another poor free kick decision in their favour. I might be wrong. They aren't seared into my frontal cortex like the sunderland and burton games.

play off selections - My view about the team selection at wembley is pretty well documented. I was probably one of the first back to post my view on it . Wembley should have been the occasion to showcase everything frank had achieved. Unfortunately the team chosen might have been selected by rowett. What more can i say. It was franks biggest error of judgement. 

Vydra sale - was a given. He would have gone whoever was in charge. 

Rowett's new deal / exit. I haven't mentioned it. I wasn't bothered about rowett going to stoke. He and they did us a favour. I was delighted. I don't dislike the bloke. But i hated the football. I really can't remember much apart from sam winnall's goal at ipswich that was really worth the entry fee. P.s. And vydra.

Rowett's success - You could find posts from me very early in the season saying that even if it is successful, Derby fans won't put up with that style of play. I believe that we do have a tradition of trying to play. We've never been a physical team. All of our best players - hector, todd, gemmill, carlin, davison, saunders, hughes - whoever you want to pick - they have been tidy players not brutish athletes. Therefore achieving 6th place and making the play offs - whilst an achievement - didn't really count for much i'm afraid. And the signings were generally a total waste of money. I was seriously considering giving up my season ticket despite the fact we came 6th.

Anyway tis all in the past.

 

[EnigmaRam]

Just when I thought it was safe to erase Rowett from my memory everyone starts talking about him again

[David]

29 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Agree with you, we did have some horror shows under both, but when Rowett ball worked it was exciting. Counter attacking football doesnt automatically mean negative football.

Definitely. I’m not rigid in my own football philosophy, I can enjoy different styles for what they are when done right. Rowett’s none interest in possession for possession sake football I can get behind. 

Don’t get me wrong at times we defended a little further back for comfort and I would have liked to have seen us push back a little, but at the same time watching us pass the ball from side to side and back round the back 4 really does nothing for me.

Come 5pm I want to say great, 3 points in the bag, all other stats mean nothing.

Maybe I’m easily pleased, don’t know. As I said earlier it wasn’t that long ago top 6 was a pipe dream, attendances dwindled as the season was effectively over in February. We now have demands for top 6, certain styles of football which I haven’t quite caught up with.

I would love to see us dominate every game, winning 3-0 every week and in the top 2, just realise how difficult that is.