DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, StringerBell said: Perhaps not, but things were worse in 2005 and he survived. The world has changed since then, I feel. R Kelly survived for many years but I bet I won’t hear Bump ‘n Grind come on at the end of the night anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, BurtonRam7 said: The world has changed since then, I feel. R Kelly survived for many years but I bet I won’t hear Bump ‘n Grind come on at the end of the night anymore? Trapped in the closets my favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Spanish said: len fairclough? Well, I was referring to Rolf (Don't call me Ralph!) actually, due to his "Learn to swim" TV Ads. But now you mention it, there was something relating to the Len Fairclough guy and kids in swimming baths. Don't recollect any outcome regarding those allegations though, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 7 hours ago, maxjam said: I don't know enough about Michael Jackson to comment but I think the increasing prevalence of trial by media and guilt by association is a dangerous path to go down. Yes he was eccentric but eccentricity isn't against the law. If however he did break the law then fair enough, open season, but you need to prove it first. We can't go off hearsay and rumours no matter how convincing or otherwise they may be. I hear what you are saying but like so many of these cases lately it’s just that media stuff that flushes out the evidence and can give victims the courage and support to come forward and start having confidence they will be listened to and possibly be believed , look at saville snow ball effect , bill cosby same , Rolf ect ect ect ect . I ask the simple question of those who are so strongly defending him ,, would honestly be happy to leave your children with Jackson for one to one sleep overs? And if not why not? Please be honest in answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 9 hours ago, BurtonRam7 said: Guilty or not, you won’t be hearing his music on anything anymore. Suits me, I was never a fan of his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Paul71 said: In fairness im not a fan of his music so it doesnt affect me. Does the same apply to Cliff Richard though? Should soap fans not watch Coronation Street? What about football, will you watch Juventus in any of their remaining games? What have juve been accused of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 9 hours ago, BurtonRam7 said: Guilty or not, you won’t be hearing his music on anything anymore. Thank god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, bigbadbob said: What have juve been accused of? I was thinking more of Ronaldo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I have no idea whether Jackson is guilty or innocent. However if someone living was accused and convicted without representation there would be uproar. It seems if you're dead you're fair game. Not just Jackson but many others. I feel for any victims of abuse, I really do, and they should get justice. I just don't see how justice can be truly served without a defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Paul71 said: I was thinking more of Ronaldo Ah yea. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Paul71 said: I think your first comment about sexual abuse being defended is unfair. I don't see anyone defending it, the only thing people are doing is questioning the credibility of the allegations. A pay off is not unusual either. I must admit this doesn't sit comfortably with me, but if we assume a pay off is some sort of admittance of guilt shall we all refuse to watch Juventus in the Champions league? Also are multiple allegations proof of guilt too? If so does it mean Cliff Richard, William Roach, John Leslie et al are all actually guilty afterall? Clearly the documentary is compelling. But surely when the make of the film himself admits not telling the full facts so that the 'story' he wanted to tell could be told, then it has to at least cast doubt on its accuracy and credibility. Paul ,you are right my first comment was too harsh for this forum and certainly not aimed at you as you clearly have an open mind ,, ,,my problem lies with those people who defend to the hilt a man who clearly in best case scenario was behaving massively inappropriately with young boys in terms of sleeping with them whilst lavishing gifts on them and their very very stupid selfish parents ,isolating them from said parents for periods of time and fostering special relationships with these boys , for me I’m astounded that anybody can fail to be at the very least gravely concerned about Jackson’s actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Anag Ram said: I have no idea whether Jackson is guilty or innocent. However if someone living was accused and convicted without representation there would be uproar. It seems if you're dead you're fair game. Not just Jackson but many others. I feel for any victims of abuse, I really do, and they should get justice. I just don't see how justice can be truly served without a defence. Saville ? Are we saying it’s like a game of snakes and ladders and if you can keep it quiet until you die and are gone then it’s game over you can not be shown for what you were and what you did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I haven't seen the documentary yet but it's years since I've thought of MJ as anything other than a messed up paedophile. His music is no great loss to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Parsnip said: I haven't seen the documentary yet but it's years since I've thought of MJ as anything other than a messed up paedophile. His music is no great loss to me. You are not alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, Archied said: Saville ? Are we saying it’s like a game of snakes and ladders and if you can keep it quiet until you die and are gone then it’s game over you can not be shown for what you were and what you did? Sorry - is that what I said? How has justice been served with Savile? His name has been tarnished after his death, that’s all. He hasn’t suffered or been made to face his accusers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Archied said: You are not alone For I am here with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Archied said: You are not alone I prefer the R Kelly version anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, Anag Ram said: Sorry - is that what I said? How has justice been served with Savile? His name has been tarnished after his death, that’s all. He hasn’t suffered or been made to face his accusers. Sorry I misunderstood I took it that because in your view justice could not be served directly it was somehow less valuable or important to root these people out and expose the truth about them ,, I take it your not saying that and feel it’s every bit as important to get to the truth and serve the best kind of justice possible under the circumstances ie the victims believed , supported and their suffering validated and the perpetrator exposed and judged for what he or she is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Hypothetical question , if Jackson was proven to be a child abuser does that outweigh all else about him or as a fan ( those who are ) do you separate the two and still see the music side the same and still play and listen his music the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, Archied said: Hypothetical question , if Jackson was proven to be a child abuser does that outweigh all else about him or as a fan ( those who are ) do you separate the two and still see the music side the same and still play and listen his music the same? I think its personal choice. After all you can buy Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf on Amazon ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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