Sith Happens Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Archied said: It’s heartbreaking to see child sexual abuse being defended , we are not talking about just the two above mentioned ,we are talking of at least 5 who have made the same allegations , we are talking about a 25 million out of court pay off to stay out of court on a case that was already in the public domain that Jackson declared he would totaly disprove in court , this was already out there putting a stain on his reputation, the reason given was that it would cost less to settle out of court?????, I think your first comment about sexual abuse being defended is unfair. I don't see anyone defending it, the only thing people are doing is questioning the credibility of the allegations. A pay off is not unusual either. I must admit this doesn't sit comfortably with me, but if we assume a pay off is some sort of admittance of guilt shall we all refuse to watch Juventus in the Champions league? Also are multiple allegations proof of guilt too? If so does it mean Cliff Richard, William Roach, John Leslie et al are all actually guilty afterall? Clearly the documentary is compelling. But surely when the make of the film himself admits not telling the full facts so that the 'story' he wanted to tell could be told, then it has to at least cast doubt on its accuracy and credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Archied said: Oops sorry . He’s just an angelic childlike man , change my stance and advise all parents out there to allow their children to attend sleep over s with strange adults ,, silly me ,what was I thinking I never said he was angelic. In fact he was bad Really, really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Archied said: What a lot of rot ,, it is totaly understood that children that are sexually abused are so damaged and confused that it can take years to tell the truth and very often not until the abuser is dead and in lots of cases never at all , the difference between Jackson and saville, there is not a multi million pound money making legacy to be defended , alive their modus operandi is identical He suddenly became unconfused she there's was millions of dollars to be made. And he didn't realise what happened to him was abuse, even though he sat through a court case in 2005 and it was stated what was abuse. And no, he literally fa lied about for a year on the TV circuit before going down the criminal justice route so the judge told him to do one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I have no idea whether MJ is guilty or not, but I do know that anyone basing their opinion on a trashy, emotionally manipulative "documentary" when there are reams of court records and depositions available to peruse isn't being particularly fair. If there were any actual revelations in Leaving Neverland that could help prove Jackson's guilt, it would've been passed to the police, rather than being unveiled at the Sundance Film Festival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Guilty or not, you won’t be hearing his music on anything anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said: Guilty or not, you won’t be hearing his music on anything anymore. Am I alone in missing seeing Rolf playing with his didgeridoo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, BurtonRam7 said: Guilty or not, you won’t be hearing his music on anything anymore. Which is wrong. If he is not guilty that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Which is wrong. If he is not guilty that is. I’m not sure. If I had ever been unfortunate enough to have suffered from abuse as a child, I’d feel highly uncomfortable if I heard the music of someones against whom allegations have been made. If you want to listen to his music then there’s no one stopping you. It would be wrong to ban it. But I’d rather not hear him on the radio to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said: I’m not sure. If I had ever been unfortunate enough to have suffered from abuse as a child, I’d feel highly uncomfortable if I heard the music of someones against whom allegations have been made. If you want to listen to his music then there’s no one stopping you. It would be wrong to ban it. But I’d rather not hear him on the radio to be honest. Would you watch a Roman Polanski film? Kevin Spacey? What about work involving the multitudes of Polanski apologists in Hollywood? You'd never watch a film again if that were the case. Would you read Alice In Wonderland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I don't know enough about Michael Jackson to comment but I think the increasing prevalence of trial by media and guilt by association is a dangerous path to go down. Yes he was eccentric but eccentricity isn't against the law. If however he did break the law then fair enough, open season, but you need to prove it first. We can't go off hearsay and rumours no matter how convincing or otherwise they may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said: I’m not sure. If I had ever been unfortunate enough to have suffered from abuse as a child, I’d feel highly uncomfortable if I heard the music of someones against whom allegations have been made. If you want to listen to his music then there’s no one stopping you. It would be wrong to ban it. But I’d rather not hear him on the radio to be honest. In fairness im not a fan of his music so it doesnt affect me. Does the same apply to Cliff Richard though? Should soap fans not watch Coronation Street? What about football, will you watch Juventus in any of their remaining games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 40 minutes ago, Anon said: Would you watch a Roman Polanski film? Kevin Spacey? What about work involving the multitudes of Polanski apologists in Hollywood? You'd never watch a film again if that were the case. Would you read Alice In Wonderland? 20 minutes ago, Paul71 said: In fairness im not a fan of his music so it doesnt affect me. Does the same apply to Cliff Richard though? Should soap fans not watch Coronation Street? What about football, will you watch Juventus in any of their remaining games? No hard and fast rules. We're all irrational, hypocritical beings. We make our own judgements and I believe that Michael Jackson was guilty and Cliff Richard wasn't. That's just my view. I personally won't be offended by hearing MJ or R Kelly's music but even if they were my favourite artists, I would accept that they won't be played whilst these allegations are present. I do think the ease at which the allegations against Ronaldo have been forgotten is slightly worrying, particularly as there seem to be documents in which he confesses that she said 'no'. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 44 minutes ago, Anon said: Would you read Alice In Wonderland? The discussion of morality and history is interesting. I find the recent debates on Churchill fascinating and necessary. Were they a product of their time? Does that make it right? It's never black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 41 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said: The discussion of morality and history is interesting. I find the recent debates on Churchill fascinating and necessary. Were they a product of their time? Does that make it right? It's never black and white. I see what you did there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, BurtonRam7 said: I’m not sure. If I had ever been unfortunate enough to have suffered from abuse as a child, I’d feel highly uncomfortable if I heard the music of someones against whom allegations have been made. If you want to listen to his music then there’s no one stopping you. It would be wrong to ban it. But I’d rather not hear him on the radio to be honest. Remember that time you touched me inappropriately. I really wasn’t comfortable with it. Based on that, I don’t think anyone on this forum should read your posts anymore. For the sake sake of clarity, @BurtonRam7 never touched me inappropriately or otherwise, I am making a false allegation. It was surprisingly easy. And now I’ve ruined his credibility for all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, BurtonRam7 said: No hard and fast rules. We're all irrational, hypocritical beings. We make our own judgements and I believe that Michael Jackson was guilty and Cliff Richard wasn't. That's just my view. I personally won't be offended by hearing MJ or R Kelly's music but even if they were my favourite artists, I would accept that they won't be played whilst these allegations are present. I do think the ease at which the allegations against Ronaldo have been forgotten is slightly worrying, particularly as there seem to be documents in which he confesses that she said 'no'. Who knows. I don't think they have been forgotten, still going through as far as I know. He made a substantial payment to keep the lady involved quiet. The allegations for Jackson will always be present now as I doubt it will go to court again, unless the Jackson family take legal action against the film maker which it sounds like they will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 21 hours ago, BurtonRam7 said: I accept that. I don't have a problem with people who have doubts about the validity of the sources, even though I personally believe the 'victims'. Even so, you can't deny that sharing a bed with a child who is not your own for 30 nights in a row is horrible (even if nothing happened), and shame on the parents for letting it happen. The True Geordie and Lawrence Mckenna, who work together on Youtube, did an excellent podcast on the documentary that you might be interested in: I am not and have never been a fan if I am honest. I will also not judge, just based on the fact that I do not know the facts. However, from what I have heard, I think the line above highlighted is the one that if true worries me the most. As a parent I would not under any circumstances allow this to happen. So if any of this is true then they have to be held partly responsible. 17 hours ago, McRamFan said: Perhaps the blame, ultimately, lies at the feet of the people who abused his talent, when he was a kid. It is well documented his childhood was show, after show, after show. In the limelight every week, a magic money machine for his dad. I do agree that what ever you believe and whether any of this is true, it would be bought on by a lack of a REAL childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 3 hours ago, BurtonRam7 said: I’m not sure. If I had ever been unfortunate enough to have suffered from abuse as a child, I’d feel highly uncomfortable if I heard the music of someones against whom allegations have been made. If you want to listen to his music then there’s no one stopping you. It would be wrong to ban it. But I’d rather not hear him on the radio to be honest. Yeah, I'd rather not put my seatbelt on anymore... and I certainly wished I had never learned to swim! (One for the older guys and gals there... well, two, actually!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 5 hours ago, BurtonRam7 said: Guilty or not, you won’t be hearing his music on anything anymore. Perhaps not, but things were worse in 2005 and he survived. DJ in Leeds on Friday night was a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 17 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: Yeah, I'd rather not put my seatbelt on anymore... and I certainly wished I had never learned to swim! (One for the older guys and gals there... well, two, actually!) len fairclough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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