Comrade 86 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 minute ago, David said: Absolutely. Just 4 fans were not happy with the Pearson appointment at the time, despite many now saying Mel dropped one by appointing him which went against everything this team was. How many fans would be as quick to hold their hands up and say they was wrong as they are to criticise the man who made the appointment? It's ok to review with hindsight, but needs to be done fairly as unfortunately crystal balls are not available on Amazon yet. Sums it up about right. I actually freaked out when we appointed Stevie Mac. Was literally frothing at the mouth. For most of recent history I'd have taken him back in a heartbeat. I was a little torn over Pearson as he's such a wingnut, but I respected his performance at Leicester. I thought Clement would be a good appointment. I thought Wassall was doing ok. I wasn't wild about Rowett. I was super excited about Lampard. They were all just opinions, most of which have changed over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, 86 points said: Sums it up about right. I actually freaked out when we appointed Stevie Mac. Was literally frothing at the mouth. For most of recent history I'd have taken him back in a heartbeat. I was a little torn over Pearson as he's such a wingnut, but I respected his performance at Leicester. I thought Clement would be a good appointment. I thought Wassall was doing ok. I wasn't wild about Rowett. I was super excited about Lampard. They were all just opinions, most of which have changed over time. I don't tend to post much on appointments, not for fear of them back firing, plenty on here I've got wrong but this probably sums up my thoughts at the time this forum has been online: Nigel Clough - Not amused Steve McClaren - Hmm, he's here now Paul Clement - Interesting one, we'll see Nigel Pearson - Probably what's needed Steve McClaren - This is so wrong but feels so right, but we shouldn't Gary Rowett - Ok Frank Lampard - Oh boy, this is so mad it's bloody brilliant Lampard is the only one that's really got me excited when they were appointed, others I grew into over time. Reading the Pearson thread back (which I've locked before someone decides to bump it!) Some great responses in there: "Fantastic to hear. COYR!" "Thanks Mel. Well done for making the right decision." "Great decision! Well done Mel :-)" "Absolutely loving this. Powell is a quality manager in his own right. I was really impressed when Simmo came as a coach, but this is even better." "Well done mel great choice." "That's The Derby Way Mel refers to. Evolution, not revolution..." "Brilliant news - the best possible appointments. " "Thank you Mel and Sam for taking the time to make the correct descision for our club. Great appointment IMO I am well and truly over the moon" "I'll echo what others have said, fantastic appointment in my opinion." "Fantastic decision and one I'm sure we won't regret." "Get. The. F--k. In. Absolutely no-one in our ball park who is any better, Villa fan I know gutted he rebuffed them. " Heres the link if you want it https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/23024-pearson-signs-3-year-deal/ ? Think it just goes to show that something can feel right at the time but go so horribly wrong, owners ultimately live and die by their appointments and transfers, never fails to amuse me looking back into the archives when you read the criticism today, it's my guilty pleasure. And yes, I've laughed at myself and not removed, many a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 minute ago, David said: I don't tend to post much on appointments, not for fear of them back firing, plenty on here I've got wrong but this probably sums up my thoughts at the time: Nigel Clough - Not amused Steve McClaren - Hmm, he's here now Paul Clement - Interesting one, we'll see Nigel Pearson - Probably what's needed Steve McClaren - This is so wrong but feels so right, but we shouldn't Gary Rowett - Ok Frank Lampard - Oh boy, this is so mad it's bloody brilliant Lampard is the only one that's really got me excited when they were appointed, others I grew into over time. Reading the Pearson thread back (which I've locked before someone decides to bump it!) Some great responses in there: "Fantastic to hear. COYR!" "Thanks Mel. Well done for making the right decision." "Great decision! Well done Mel :-)" "Absolutely loving this. Powell is a quality manager in his own right. I was really impressed when Simmo came as a coach, but this is even better." "Well done mel great choice." "That's The Derby Way Mel refers to. Evolution, not revolution..." "Brilliant news - the best possible appointments. " "Thank you Mel and Sam for taking the time to make the correct descision for our club. Great appointment IMO I am well and truly over the moon" "I'll echo what others have said, fantastic appointment in my opinion." "Fantastic decision and one I'm sure we won't regret." "Get. The. F--k. In. Absolutely no-one in our ball park who is any better, Villa fan I know gutted he rebuffed them. " ? Think it just goes to show that something can feel right at the time but go so horribly wrong, owners ultimately live and die by their appointments and transfers, never fails to amuse me looking back into the archives when you read the criticism today, it's my guilty pleasure. And yes, I've laughed at myself and not removed, many a time. Good thing none of us own a football club really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, David said: Think it just goes to show that something can feel right at the time but go so horribly wrong, owners ultimately live and die by their appointments and transfers, never fails to amuse me looking back into the archives when you read the criticism today, it's my guilty pleasure. And yes, I've laughed at myself and not removed, many a time. But you're missing the point - they are in charge, so they need to get it right. We look back and criticise because they got it wrong. It's their job to get it right. All of us ordinary fans can get it wrong - geddit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, David said: I don't tend to post much on appointments, not for fear of them back firing, plenty on here I've got wrong but this probably sums up my thoughts at the time this forum has been online: Nigel Clough - Not amused Steve McClaren - Hmm, he's here now Paul Clement - Interesting one, we'll see Nigel Pearson - Probably what's needed Steve McClaren - This is so wrong but feels so right, but we shouldn't Gary Rowett - Ok Frank Lampard - Oh boy, this is so mad it's bloody brilliant Lampard is the only one that's really got me excited when they were appointed, others I grew into over time. Reading the Pearson thread back (which I've locked before someone decides to bump it!) Some great responses in there: "Fantastic to hear. COYR!" "Thanks Mel. Well done for making the right decision." "Great decision! Well done Mel :-)" "Absolutely loving this. Powell is a quality manager in his own right. I was really impressed when Simmo came as a coach, but this is even better." "Well done mel great choice." "That's The Derby Way Mel refers to. Evolution, not revolution..." "Brilliant news - the best possible appointments. " "Thank you Mel and Sam for taking the time to make the correct descision for our club. Great appointment IMO I am well and truly over the moon" "I'll echo what others have said, fantastic appointment in my opinion." "Fantastic decision and one I'm sure we won't regret." "Get. The. F--k. In. Absolutely no-one in our ball park who is any better, Villa fan I know gutted he rebuffed them. " Heres the link if you want it https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/23024-pearson-signs-3-year-deal/ ? Think it just goes to show that something can feel right at the time but go so horribly wrong, owners ultimately live and die by their appointments and transfers, never fails to amuse me looking back into the archives when you read the criticism today, it's my guilty pleasure. And yes, I've laughed at myself and not removed, many a time. Nigel Pearson was the happiest I've been with a managerial appointment we've made. Seemed to make so much sense at the time, and with Powell and Idiakez onboard, it just seemed perfect didn't it? Should he have gotten more time to built the squad that suited his football? Maybe. Who knows. I think sacking him after nine games though is probably one of the bigger 'cons' on a Mel Morris 'pros and cons' list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Just now, RoyMac5 said: But you're missing the point - they are in charge, so they need to get it right. We look back and criticise because they got it wrong. It's their job to get it right. All of us ordinary fans can get it wrong - geddit? Yes I "geddit". But, gedthis yo, I think we should be fair in our criticisms. Pearson turned out to be a poor appointment, but I won't slam Mel for it because at the time it felt like the right choice and the majority of fans were happy with it. Also, one more thing to throw out there, one thing that Mel has always been keen to point out, these appointments/sackings were not made by himself up in his castle as a bolt of lightening hit Pride Park. They were a joint decision, which Sam Rush would have been part of at the time of Nigel Pearson's arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, David said: Yes I "geddit". But, gedthis yo, I think we should be fair in our criticisms. Pearson turned out to be a poor appointment, but I won't slam Mel for it because at the time it felt like the right choice and the majority of fans were happy with it. Also, one more thing to throw out there, one thing that Mel has always been keen to point out, these appointments/sackings were not made by himself up in his castle as a bolt of lightening hit Pride Park. They were a joint decision, which Sam Rush would have been part of at the time of Nigel Pearson's arrival. Unfortunately like in the league, the table doesn't lie and here we are still in the Championship. Slam or don't slam Mel, we're still here and that is the end result of his current tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 I think we were all happy with pearsons appt because we thought that he knew how to get us promoted after all he had achieved with Leicester... I think it was when I attended our pre season game against Walsall that I realised we had ducked up,big time...the football was already atrocious. I'd imagine Mel and Sam felt a similar sense of horror,magnified x10 after a few more 'performances' And then,further down the line he did it again with rowett...doh. I love Mel cos he loves our club, passionately but we need a system like Brentford's with a clear definition of our system of intended play.The owner needs to then leave it to the experts. Only then will we buy in players and managers that have some continuity to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Unfortunately like in the league, the table doesn't lie and here we are still in the Championship. Slam or don't slam Mel, we're still here and that is the end result of his current tenure. If that's all you're judging his tenure on then sure it's a failure, personally I think it's incredibly harsh though and ignorant to the investment he has made throughout the club. It's a bit like the age old what makes a big club debate, there will never be an official list of big clubs as we all have our own checkboxes. I do think Mel's tenure whenever it may end, will be looked on more fondly after he has left which is a shame. Not saying we won't ever have a better owner, but I think there will be a few, maybe he wasn't all that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 minute ago, David said: If that's all you're judging his tenure on then sure it's a failure, personally I think it's incredibly harsh though and ignorant to the investment he has made throughout the club. ...I do think Mel's tenure whenever it may end, will be looked on more fondly after he has left which is a shame. Not saying we won't ever have a better owner, but I think there will be a few, maybe he wasn't all that bad. What else to judge him on than how successful the club is? Why be so harsh on the Yanks then? He'll only be looked on fondly (if he left tomorrow) if the new owners were worse results-wise. *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Just now, RoyMac5 said: What else to judge him on than how successful the club is? Why be so harsh on the Yanks then? He'll only be looked on fondly (if he left tomorrow) if the new owners were worse results-wise. *shrugs* Think I've put my thoughts down on a couple of posts earlier in this thread without repeating them. Surprised at your simplistic view, wasn't that long ago you went from Promotion at all costs to get Rowett out I want to be entertained, not bothered about results. Lampard came in, you was happy with for 5 minutes and now demanding results again, promotion at all costs. You change your demands more than I change my underwear and I like to think as myself as being quite hygienic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, David said: Surprised at your simplistic view, wasn't that long ago you went from Promotion at all costs to get Rowett out I want to be entertained, not bothered about results. Lampard came in, you was happy with for 5 minutes and now demanding results again, promotion at all costs. You change your demands more than I change my underwear and I like to think as myself as being quite hygienic. I said about Snake that 'how could you complain as long as he was winning'? Of course some still complained but if he'd taken us up they would have been in the minority. I disliked his management style that showed when the 'newness' wore off - that is, when we all believed what he said and thought he could achieve what he said. The same applies to Lampard as it did to Snake. He says certain things and then you have to translate that to 'reality'. For me he hasn't done that. There is no dichotomy, he hasn't lived up to his early promise is all. For others they will give him a lot longer, that's their prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I said about Snake that 'how could you complain as long as he was winning'? Of course some still complained but if he'd taken us up they would have been in the minority. I disliked his management style that showed when the 'newness' wore off - that is, when we all believed what he said and thought he could achieve what he said. The same applies to Lampard as it did to Snake. He says certain things and then you have to translate that to 'reality'. For me he hasn't done that. There is no dichotomy, he hasn't lived up to his early promise is all. For others they will give him a lot longer, that's their prerogative. Ok, I hear you. Roy, I’d love to go back and forth with you even though we’re miles apart on pretty much everything Derby County, but: 1) I don’t think it will be particularly entertaining for others to come and read, I kinda know where you stand today and I wrote a lengthy reply to Revil earlier to say where I stand, anymore more now would just be repeating ourselves. Like to sit back and read others thoughts for a bit, chime in if I have anything new to add. And 2) It’s pretty late, the missus is giving me the evils as I’ve barely said hello since she came in from work, if I ignore her much longer I’ll be making my own breakfast in the morning and she’ll probably hide the spoons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 hours ago, David said: Absolutely. Just 4 fans were not happy with the Pearson appointment at the time, despite many now saying Mel dropped one by appointing him which went against everything this team was. How many fans would be as quick to hold their hands up and say they was wrong as they are to criticise the man who made the appointment? It's ok to review with hindsight, but needs to be done fairly as unfortunately crystal balls are not available on Amazon yet. ??♂️ I got it wrong. I think that MM has made mistakes, but he's also been very unlucky. Although not his appointment, Mac1 was going really well until injuries and Newcastlegate struck. Whether he was right or wrong to sack him is difficult to say, there are so many on both sides of the fence on the forum. Clement seemed the perfect appointment. Although he'd never been the number one he had huge experience at some of the biggest clubs in the world. It all looked good at the beginning, but pretty well all of his signings have proven average at best. Wassall was a stopgap that really wasn't as bad as some have made out. Then we have "that" season. First of all Pearson. I thought that he was just what was needed. A firm hand who would take the team by the scruff of the neck and pummel it to promotion. He ended up just pummelling it and us. Powell was also used as a stopgap but I for one wouldn't have been worried if he had been given the job full time. Mac2 for me was the strangest decision. Not necessarily the appointment but more the sacking. Yes the Brighton game was an absolute disaster and McClaren's pitch side demeanour was weird, but it was still a shock for me when he was given the boot again. I assumed that the haste was because of the availability of Rowett. Again I was all for the appointment. He was an ex player from one of our most exciting recent periods. Although he was known as a pragmatic manager, I thought that in time he would produce an exciting counterattacking side. To be fair to him there were some excellent performances, and we were the team with most victories by three or more goals. His problem was that if we didn't have someone produce a goal out of nothing allowing us to soak up pressure and then hit quickly on the break then we were as boring as can be. Who knows what would have happened if he hadn't gone running to greener pastures. Probably nothing as he couldn't produce a decent team at Stoke even with all the money that he spent. And now Lampard. Obviously the jury is still out. He has shown a lot of promise, but has also shown some naivety. Hopefully with a year's experience he will have learnt some lessons and with a transfer window will be able to bring in players better suited to his system. Personally, I'm glad that Mel is our owner. He's one of our own. He wants success. I believe that he deserves it. Hopefully his luck will change and we will get promoted whilst he still has a prominent role at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I don’t think Mel’s tenure will be remembered too fondly, simply because fans respond to what happens on the pitch and too many of Mel’s decisions have had a direct impact on that, and mostly not for the better. Were we any happier with GSE? I don’t think we were. The lack of ambition was numbing, but I think we were more sympathetic with the owners, because there was a greater sense of stability and a feeling that we knew what we were getting. You could see there were principles or the semblance of a plan being stuck to. With Mel, it’s all been a white knuckle ride. Exciting to an extent, but also incredibly unsettling in other ways. We just don’t know what tomorrow will bring. A new manager? A FFP punishment? A new investor? An unexpected promotion? I don’t think you can knock the man’s intent or ambition. He has invested a lot in the club and clearly tried to act in the best interests of the club. But sadly for him, too many times, his ambition has clouded his judgement and his decision making and repeated inability to learn from mistakes has quickly eroded faith and goodwill from sections of the fan base. We are now known as a club that hires, fires and spends its way into trouble, constantly attracting the wrong kind of headlines. Rightly or wrongly, this will overshadow much of the good work he has done and positive intent he had. For me, it was the end of McClaren’s second time in charge where I lost all sense of faith and a feeling of Mel having a clear plan and direction for the club, and since then nothing he has done has clawed it back. When McClaren was first appointed in 2013, I thought it was laughable. But he did an amazing job, proved me emphatically wrong, and breathed new life into the club. Could lightning strike twice? I think we were all excited and intrigued to find out. The remainder of that season really was and should have remained a free hit for McClaren and to this day, I still can’t wrap my head around the decision to sack him. There were no guarantees of anything moving forward but I think most felt if anyone was going to bring the good times back, with some time, some patience and some understanding, it was Steve. I didn’t like the sackings of Clement or Pearson either - both of them deserved more time - but it was really the sacking of McClaren the second time round where I feel Mel lost touch with much of the fan base. Not knowing when to let things run their course and not letting a manager do his job and be judged in the fullness of time is what he’ll be remembered for. And now he is finally taking a different approach with Frank and yet seemingly won’t be around to enjoy the potential fruits of it. Funny old game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 6 hours ago, David said: Absolutely. Just 4 fans were not happy with the Pearson appointment at the time...... Good grief. I'm pretty shocked by that. i'd be pretty confident of being 1 of the 4. Either that or i didn't vote? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 42 minutes ago, RamNut said: Good grief. I'm pretty shocked by that. i'd be pretty confident of being 1 of the 4. Either that or i didn't vote? ? Turns out i was so disillusioned i didn't anything from march 19th until sept 27th the day he was sacked.....then..... Quote Hallelujah get behind chris powell. And.... Quote we have to find a manager that Mel respects enough to let them get on with the job even when things aren't going well, and the manager is making errors. We need a manager who can manage Mel and keep him happy instead of trying to knock his block off. Here here. Quote Thats exactly what was totally predictable. it was a car crash waiting to happen from day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Quote Quote Mel Morris to put the club up for sale SHOULD Derby fail to win promotion. Well all this newspaper and internet talk about MM losing money and wants to sell the club and add that us, Villa and Wendies all facing with same punishment as the Blues - this just sums up the life of Derby fan..... There is not much denial coming out of the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 hours ago, toddy said: Well all this newspaper and internet talk about MM losing money and wants to sell the club and add that us, Villa and Wendies all facing with same punishment as the Blues - this just sums up the life of Derby fan..... There is not much denial coming out of the club? The club are doing what they should be doing, saying nothing, their legal advisors will be telling them that . The only talking should be to the EFL, and a statement should things go wrong. I have a lot of time for MM, he put his money where his mouth is and backed his team. I wonder if the wages that we are paying out is the reason why Rush left. It’s the wages that we pay that have left us in a potential pickle what ever happens the RAMS are my club and I will always support them COYRs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Will he be regretting not continuing as a joint venture with GSE and the billionaire american investors....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.