Mel Morris to put the club up for sale SHOULD Derby fail to win promotion....

[AdamRam]

2 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Looks like he has been erased from history, so I will defer to your opinion that he got snide BS. People disagreed for sure but I honestly don't recall it was 'snide BS'. 

I liked Ramblurs posts, however have to agree that he didn’t seem to get treated any different from any other poster. Sure he got questions and challenged but given he also didn’t have all the answers this was always to be expected.

hope he is doing well and I did think he gave a good overview of the accounts, how accurate that was would not for me to say as it’s not my area of expertise to challenge.

[Angry Ram]

6 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

I liked Ramblurs posts, however have to agree that he didn’t seem to get treated any different from any other poster. Sure he got questions and challenged but given he also didn’t have all the answers this was always to be expected.

hope he is doing well and I did think he gave a good overview of the accounts, how accurate that was would not for me to say as it’s not my area of expertise to challenge.

I liked him as well.. 

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, StivePesley said:

Absolutely - it's a business investment that he always intended to recoup when we reach the Prem.

Not saying he would ask for it all back the second we get promoted, but at that point it becomes a different business proposition. Namely - to weigh up how much of the Prem money to invest in making sure we stay up, balanced against reclaiming some of his initial outlay. Obviously the more seasons a club stays in the Prem the more of his loan money he could reclaim

As it stands, he's just throwing money at it season after season and still no nearer the next stage of the plan

Not getting at Mel but just pointing out that he could recoup some of his losses if he sells to a rich investor.

 

[Ramet]

7 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Not getting at Mel but just pointing out that he could recoup some of his losses if he sells to a rich investor.

 

Yes deffo and like all business men thats pretty common place but he would never do anything that would be a detriment to the club

[Curtains]

Just now, Ramet said:

Yes deffo and like all business men thats pretty common place but he would never do anything that would be a detriment to the club

I agree he is for sure a loyal servant to Derby County. 

I have no knowledge of what Mels plans are but I wish him well 

[Ramet]

1 hour ago, KCG said:

Why not? It was clear that he actually knew what he was talking about, unlike virtually everybody else, on this topic.

Quite right there was no one better with understanding the finances

[Mafiabob]

Be careful what you wish for...... remember uttering them words in 2015..... 40 million...... 40 million..... let that sink in.

 

[Ramet]

59 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

He was close to a meltdown.. He lost the plot at the end, @RamNut I think it was, was asking some normal questions and the guy imploded.. I can't remember clearly but I think they were almost saying the same thing but in different ways. DCFC is debt free (technically) but the money Morris put in went in to other holding companies. I think RamNut was trying to say, yes I know that but he will still want his money back when he sells. Which again is (technically) true.

That might be completely wrong by the way, it was a while ago. 

Aside from the meltdown bit that is spot on to be fair angy

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

It hasn't worked for him based on several managers all with their own ideas spending on players they believed were the answer.

If that manager were allowed time then maybe they might have been.

We will never know.

I love Mel for his commitment and what he has done for the club but I do feel he is partly to blame with the constant desire for instant success (which you can't blame him for wanting as we all do) but chopping and changing management did not help. (Not all of them of course, i realise some left, but again you have to ask yourself why if Derby was such a great prospect?)

I will await incoming as I know this has been covered elsewhere but it is purely my opinion. 

Of course, that is the outcome we see with hindsight. But I somehow doubt that was the pitch from Clement,  Pearson et al "hey mel, employ me and I'll completely change direction and add a whole bunch of players and costs in the process".

?

 

Or in rowetts case " I'll throw in a fire sale of your better players for free as well......"

[AdamRam]

31 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

For the record, he's Derby so okay with me. Just not as a Chairman

I’d agree with that, not a popular opinion I’m sure but there are two of is sharing that opinion ?

[MuespachRam]

1 hour ago, Ramet said:

Yes deffo and like all business men thats pretty common place but he would never do anything that would be a detriment to the club

Really..? You actually believe that?

[Ramet]

1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

Really..? You actually believe that?

Yes 100%

[AdamRam]

2 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Really..? You actually believe that?

I think a lot do believe what he says, he is a nice man, no way would he say one thing and do another, 500 million bid comes in for the club, he would definitely turn it down if they they didn’t have the best interest of the club at heart and continue to fund them to the tune of 3 million a year, it makes perfect business sense. 

Also It wasn’t that long ago that MM said there isn’t a process to go and look for someone to invest, if he says something it’s got to be true.

[KCG]

4 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

He was close to a meltdown.. He lost the plot at the end, @RamNut I think it was, was asking some normal questions and the guy imploded.. I can't remember clearly but I think they were almost saying the same thing but in different ways. DCFC is debt free (technically) but the money Morris put in went in to other holding companies. I think RamNut was trying to say, yes I know that but he will still want his money back when he sells. Which again is (technically) true.

That might be completely wrong by the way, it was a while ago. 

People were just arguing with him for the sake of arguing (a general theme). He wasn't very good at being able to ignore them, and didn't make use of the ignore feature.

[North East Ram]

I can imagine when Mel was considering investing in Derby his friends and family warned him about the pitfalls and potential reaction of our fans come rain or shine. That’s football.

Now they’re probably saying ‘we did warn you’. 

Mel is damned either way but personally  I have no qualms with his tenure and believe that whatever he decides to do won’t be intentionally to the detriment of Derby County. I’d wager he’ll leave us in a very good place financially and structurally with hope for the future. He’s only tried his best whilst stumping up a substantial sum of money.

If I win the Euromillions, I’ll be giving it a go for sure. So blummin watch out. I have Billy on speed dial and he’s still up for a return to Derby. #unfinishedunfinishedbusiness

[Gaspode]

36 minutes ago, KCG said:

People were just arguing with him for the sake of arguing (a general theme). He wasn't very good at being able to ignore them, and didn't make use of the ignore feature.

The way this thread (like many others recently) has deteriorated into a petty slanging match, I suspect my ignore list will soon contain most of the posters on the board - perhaps David could bring in a feature where everyone is ignored until users choose to see their posts - or maybe the mods could just start dishing out some yellow cards to those who only want an argument rather than adding anything useful to the threads....

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, Curtains said:

So it’s what I thought all along these loans by Mel were just that only loans. 

The loans are to the holding company, all of the money that has gone into the football club (up to 30 June 2017 at least) has been equity not debt. 

 

[RamNut]

3 hours ago, KCG said:

People were just arguing with him for the sake of arguing (a general theme). 

With respect that isn't true. Not from my perspective anyway.

At the time the message from ramblur and others was that the club was debt free, and compliance with ffp wasn't a problem.

Without wishing to revisit the arguments etc, i posted the overall company accounts, which showed significant annual losses and £95m of debt to MM. I stated that i wasn't an accountant but that the overall picture seemed problematic to put it mildly. Ramblur went off on one because statements about the accounts were his personal domain and he openly contemptuous and rude to others who strayed into that territory. (I avoided responding in kind, but by then he was taking verbal pot shots at numerous people including mods). Putting the tantrums aside, i still believe that the fundamental business model of a championship football club does not work. Billionaire owners are losing millions and clubs are struggling to comply with Ffp. 

It was interesting to see a shift this season and to hear stories of austerity measures at the club and the academy. Good news as far as i was concerned. We also had one particular poster giving us what appeared to be good inside info, praising the executive and announcing that we had agreed our ffp  position - we seemed to be absolutely at the limit.

without looking up the specific figures, the approximate summary of our position seemed to be somthing like (from  memmory)

• turnover @£25m
• wages @£37m 
• overall annual loss @£25m

The points i was making were headline issues rather than accountancy detail.

• all transfer fees have to be funded by sales
• we need to massively reduce the wage bill
• mel is funding excessive unsustainable losses 

Fundamentally the problem is that television money in the prem has caused salaries to mushroom. That affected the salaries payable in the championship too. But the television money was not distributed to championship clubs in equal measure to offset those salary increases. Unless this situation changes, the financial model won't work. The only way to avoid having huge losses is to significantly cut the wage bill. 

Furthermore championship clubs cannot afford to pay transfer fees therefore the strategy is inevitably based on the development of academy players, freebies and loans. We have a great thread full of suggestions for signings, but there is no way we can afford the fees for most of those players. Not a very nice position to be in. 

this season we have made moves to promote and develop academy players. We have made some good signings on low fees - especially holmes, (and i remain hopeful with regards to evans). The financial position will be much improved when the out of contract high earners are released. However....i don't personally understand splashing £5m on any player. We are caught in a predicament - chasing promotion on the one hand, and trying to fix the broken financial model on the other.

Given all of the above, the rumours of mel looking for help, and seeming to conclude that he cannot continue to fund the losse, does not surprise me. The financial realities won't go away unless we fluke a promotion and then the financial landscape is totally different. (Chelsea's turnover for example is £325. £300m per season more than ours. And a huge chunk of that increased income is tv money). 

So where do we go?

we could compare ourselves to sheff utd and swansea.

Swansea won't get many accolades this season, but they have promoted four academy players to the first team - roberts, rodon, mcburnie and james. The difference is that their young players are 21-22. Ours are 19. We might be two years behind. once we concluded that the previous generation of guy, vernam, hanson, kwarme thomas, farrend rawson etc were not going to be good enough, it set us back a bit. 

Sheff utd have operated a very frugal acquisitions policy. (Compare mcgoldrick on a freebie to waggers at £5m). Signings like holmes and evans are what we can afford. They won't all work, but fans need to understand the financial realities and show some tolerance. The raging away fans at aston villa might do well to think about our financial position as compared to aston villa who have had premier league income and parachute monies. I think villa might get promoted this year, but if they don't then ultimately they will have to face the same financial conundrum as everyone else, and slash and burn.

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

'Ramblur went off on one because statements about the accounts were his personal domain and he openly contemptuous and rude to others who strayed into that territory.'

Totally agree with this .  As a qualified statistician and forecaster for business, I put forward a quick financial viewpoint and he bothered me about it for four days non stop in a not very pleasant way, after a while I lost my rag and gave back more than I would have liked just to put a stop to it.

[KCG]

5 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

'Ramblur went off on one because statements about the accounts were his personal domain and he openly contemptuous and rude to others who strayed into that territory.'

Totally agree with this .  As a qualified statistician and forecaster for business, I put forward a quick financial viewpoint and he bothered me about it for four days non stop in a not very pleasant way, after a while I lost my rag and gave back more than I would have liked just to put a stop to it.

Are you a qualified accountant?