Mel Morris to put the club up for sale SHOULD Derby fail to win promotion....

[Turnstile]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

Ok but there’s a big difference between 3 and nearly 2m isn’t there 

all football clubs lose money and I’m sure Mel was more than aware of this when he took the job on.

hasnt he said he is open to outside investment ?

theres a big difference between looking for investment and selling the club 

a huge difference ... like one thing means one thing and the other means another 

just a bit of sensationalism journalism to shift a few papers and we’re about to go down the curmit unless we sell to any tom dick or harry that will have us 

I’m not worried I’m the slightest 

£194 million over 6 years .You do the maths.

[NottsRam77]

9 minutes ago, Turnstile said:

£194 million over 6 years .You do the maths.

care to expand ? 

A source ?

Straight loss?

operational losses? 

Tbh im not that fussed with figures it’s not my money and Mel knew what he was getting himself into, I’m sure he’s not stupid

the fact is that the club and Mel addressed this rumour and said the situation hasn’t changed from last year

mel said last year he is open to outside investment.... he reiterated that again when all this got brought up again

nothing’s changed 

 

[Turnstile]

2 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

care to expand ? 

Read the accounts. Remember MM put money into DCFC when he was a Director before he became sole owner. He put a lot of money into Moor Farm.

[NottsRam77]

2 minutes ago, Turnstile said:

Read the accounts. Remember MM put money into DCFC when he was a Director before he became sole owner. He put a lot of money into Moor Farm.

Money into moor farm is an investment though not a loss which he chose to do 

if things were that bad, why spend the money 

I’m not here for tit for tat argument bud just saying I don’t believe what I read in the half the nationals as majority of the time it’s a load of crap

The club and Mel made their statement re open to outside investment, works for me 

he’s a businessman why wouldn’t he 

all football clubs hemorage money, I think we’re now one of the more stable ones, debt free, own our own ground, cat 1 academy which we own, land around the ground, we’re not in a bad spot generally speaking .. if u exclude mr rushes exploits and the fall out from that which we are still feeling the effects of lol

[G STAR RAM]

5 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Ok but there’s a big difference between 3 and nearly 2m isn’t there 

Yes of course there is but the £2m I quoted was from an accounting period that ended nearly 2 years ago. In the scheme of FFP there is not much difference between £2m and £3m a year, both would have us significantly over the limit.

all football clubs lose money and I’m sure Mel was more than aware of this when he took the job on.

Not sure anyone has said any different? Pretty sure Mel would have expected promotion by now though given his level of investment.

 

5 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

hasnt he said he is open to outside investment ?

Yes but that does not solve any FFP problems. Basically, outside investment would be sharing the losses so I could only see it being someone speculating on promotion. 

theres a big difference between looking for investment and selling the club 

See above.

a huge difference ... like one thing means one thing and the other means another 

Yes.

just a bit of sensationalism journalism to shift a few papers and we’re about to go down the curmit unless we sell to any tom dick or harry that will have us 

Think it may be closer to the truth than you think in terms of the figures quoted. Not see anyone reporting that we are in trouble unless Mel sells, isn't that just sensationalism posting from you?

I’m not worried I’m the slightest 

Me neither, it's easy not to be worried when it's someone elses money. For the record I was also not worried when Lionel Pickering was in charge. He was another rich fan who had the club's best interests at heart.

 

[KCG]

7 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

To reiterate so people can untwist their knickers

People keep saying about selling the club 

Mel has NEVER said he is looking to sell the club 

he HAS said that he is open to outside investment 

there is a massive different between the two 

massive

 

I feel your frustration. As you know I have also asked people to put up, or shut up, about the club's finances. They even provide articles to support their argument, but when you read it you can clearly see it doesn't say the things they have imagined it does.

I would suggest that club's who have ambition will sail close to the wind around FFP; as long as they know what they are doing I see nothing wrong in this.

What plans Mel has for his role in the club is his business and fans should, as you say, stick to the facts.

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

 

This is all well and good and u make good valid points mate

all I’ve tried to say as I have done on another post 

that the daily mail “reported” Mel is trying to sell the club 

that is incorrect 

he has said as of last season that he was open to outside investment , not he is trying to sell the club 

how we got onto all those ins and outs I do not know lol 

[Angry Ram]

45 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

This is all well and good and u make good valid points mate

all I’ve tried to say as I have done on another post 

that the daily mail “reported” Mel is trying to sell the club 

that is incorrect 

he has said as of last season that he was open to outside investment , not he is trying to sell the club 

how we got onto all those ins and outs I do not know lol 

With all due respect, you don’t know that is incorrect... What is said publicly and what is said privately can be two different things.

I saw him on a train the other day and he told me he was selling to @Ramet He knows what time Morris has a dump (apparently).

[AdamRam]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes but that does not solve any FFP problems. Basically, outside investment would be sharing the losses so I could only see it being someone speculating on promotion. 

Have you got any evidence to back this up or is your opinion? There is no arguing that we are close to the FFP limits this year as MM confirmed however I’m wondering what information there is out there that says we will be in the same position next year ?

 

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, AdamRam said:

Have you got any evidence to back this up or is your opinion? There is no arguing that we are close to the FFP limits this year as MM confirmed however I’m wondering what information there is out there that says we will be in the same position next year ?

It's kind of an opinion based on the fact that I believe MM will be funding us up to the FFP limits (as he has alluded to on several occasions).

If that is true, then external investment will make no difference to the situation, other than it will be more than one investor covering our losses, it will not mean there is any more money available for transfers or wages. Unless of course the external 'investment' is made in a way that shows as a source of trading income ie sponsorship.

Just my understanding of things and I'm far from being an FFP expert, just using information from the accounts coupled with information coming from the club.

After reading back your post, I think I've missed your point.

Obviously, I have no information about the future position, even MM has said that it's hard to predict even as the season shapes up. 

The fact that we've been close to the limits, despite us selling prize assets in the last 2 seasons,  tells me that we'd have to shift a lot of the wage bill to significantly alter that.

[AdamRam]

19 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

It's kind of an opinion based on the fact that I believe MM will be funding us up to the FFP limits (as he has alluded to on several occasions).

If that is true, then external investment will make no difference to the situation, other than it will be more than one investor covering our losses, it will not mean there is any more money available for transfers or wages. Unless of course the external 'investment' is made in a way that shows as a source of trading income ie sponsorship.

Just my understanding of things and I'm far from being an FFP expert, just using information from the accounts coupled with information coming from the club.

After reading back your post, I think I've missed your point.

Obviously, I have no information about the future position, even MM has said that it's hard to predict even as the season shapes up. 

The fact that we've been close to the limits, despite us selling prize assets in the last 2 seasons,  tells me that we'd have to shift a lot of the wage bill to significantly alter that.

I have no reason to doubt anything you say about FFP, I don’t k ow enough about it I’ll jistbout that before I start ?

My point was that, maybe new investment could be used to fund players next year, the article I read was around not knowing how we will end up this year, however could it be possible that next year they know a number of high earners that are out of contract will no longer be at the club (yes I know it’s dependant on the write down of their value etc).

I’m struggling to see how you would sell an opportunity to invest in the club at the moment if there is no movement to invest into the playing side of the club,. I’m probably wrong as normal, but Mel said at day one he expected a return on his investment and I know things change, however what would an investor get at the moment. A club that is losing xx million a year and limited opportunity to bring in new players due to being close to the FFP.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

I have no reason to doubt anything you say about FFP, I don’t k ow enough about it I’ll jistbout that before I start ?

My point was that, maybe new investment could be used to fund players next year, the article I read was around not knowing how we will end up this year, however could it be possible that next year they know a number of high earners that are out of contract will no longer be at the club (yes I know it’s dependant on the write down of their value etc).

I’m struggling to see how you would sell an opportunity to invest in the club at the moment if there is no movement to invest into the playing side of the club,. I’m probably wrong as normal, but Mel said at day one he expected a return on his investment and I know things change, however what would an investor get at the moment. A club that is losing xx million a year and limited opportunity to bring in new players due to being close to the FFP.

Yes didn't really get your point until I re-read the post. 

My only comment would be that we were sailing close to the wind after selling Hendrick, Hughes, Ince and Vydra. That's a huge amount to shift off the wage bill to replace that income.

[NottsRam77]

Maybe outside investment would be in the form of money for the pride park plaza or whatever it was 

monies that an investor could put in that would be allowed under ffp to come from owner/ outside investment and would add to the value and income of the club 

just throwing one out there 

[AdamRam]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes didn't really get your point until I re-read the post. 

My only comment would be that we were sailing close to the wind after selling Hendrick, Hughes, Ince and Vydra. That's a huge amount to shift off the wage bill to replace that income.

Agreed, maybe it’s more hope from my part.....twenty million sponsorship for the ground anyone ?

[cheron85]

12 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

If that is true, then external investment will make no difference to the situation, other than it will be more than one investor covering our losses, it will not mean there is any more money available for transfers or wages. Unless of course the external 'investment' is made in a way that shows as a source of trading income ie sponsorship.

Just my understanding of things and I'm far from being an FFP expert, just using information from the accounts coupled with information coming from the club.

I suspect that will be the likely route - Morris, unfortunately, has no business interests which could allow for putting money in through sponsorship - Pretty sure that's why Newcastle have sports direct everywhere because Ashley can use it as a 'write off' against FFP

I can't find the exact wording of FFP anywhere but it was originally set up to cover footballing expenses such as 'wages and transfers' - So I'm not sure if residual asset value will be as much of a big deal - That surely would be something which applies to the business and not the actual football side of things? I reckon if we're letting 10 senior players go that should free up £5-10m in wages and transfer fees?

[Spanish]

5 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I suspect that will be the likely route - Morris, unfortunately, has no business interests which could allow for putting money in through sponsorship - Pretty sure that's why Newcastle have sports direct everywhere because Ashley can use it as a 'write off' against FFP

I can't find the exact wording of FFP anywhere but it was originally set up to cover footballing expenses such as 'wages and transfers' - So I'm not sure if residual asset value will be as much of a big deal - That surely would be something which applies to the business and not the actual football side of things? I reckon if we're letting 10 senior players go that should free up £5-10m in wages and transfer fees?

this is pretty difficult to analyse because the rules appear uncertain and we have no idea of carrying values but why do you think it will free up transfer fees.  I can see the wages side but the other equation looks like a negative to me.

[cheron85]

6 minutes ago, Spanish said:

this is pretty difficult to analyse because the rules appear uncertain and we have no idea of carrying values but why do you think it will free up transfer fees.  I can see the wages side but the other equation looks like a negative to me.

Because the players+fees thing is balanced across a year - Replacing a player on £30k a week with one on £10k a week frees up £1m

Huddlestone, Johnson, Nugent, Bryson, Pearce, Butterfield, Olsson, Ledley, Blackman

Got to think most of them are on £30k a week contracts? (maybe Pearce, Olsson and Butters on less?)

[David]

13 minutes ago, Spanish said:

this is pretty difficult to analyse

If only there was some kind of Q&A session where fans could put these questions to the club, would save a lot of guessing ?‍♂️

[Spanish]

4 minutes ago, David said:

If only there was some kind of Q&A session where fans could put these questions to the club, would save a lot of guessing ?‍♂️

I can see little point in the club providing this sort of info particularly regarding carrying value

[Spanish]

7 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Because the players+fees thing is balanced across a year - Replacing a player on £30k a week with one on £10k a week frees up £1m

Huddlestone, Johnson, Nugent, Bryson, Pearce, Butterfield, Olsson, Ledley, Blackman

Got to think most of them are on £30k a week contracts? (maybe Pearce, Olsson and Butters on less?)

if the club has written down the value of all these players to zero then I see your point, if not we could be in a large hole that the wages savings will not fill