Fans Forum @ Nunsfield House in Alvaston 27/3/19

[Uptherams]

The club will be saving a small fortune this summer. We can shave £10m, easy, off the wage bill. Mel is talking about a total figure of up to £15m on players that don't feature or barely do. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

That doesn't make sense.

If he had signed Neymar for a reported £3m everyone would have thought that was amazing, but then when you eventually realise money has gone all over the place to family members and other corporate groups, he's on £500k a week in the championship and on a 5 year contract we can't do anything about of course you can question what the hell kind of signing it was in hindsight.

The only way anyone would have not is if we had gone up, at which point, none of this stuff would have even come out i'd guess - but if it had, damn right we would still be right to look at it puzzled.

Some of the deals handed around reminds me of Ravanelli back in the day where we were paying far more than our means, and even after he had long gone we were still paying it. We weren't to know that at the time, we just thought we had signed good players so i'm not sure how it's unfair to use hindsight here.

We were discussing the transfer fees though, because someone said we signed the players for low fees.

Until there is any concrete evidence of anything else, that is all there is to go on.

The only add ons I saw mentioned in the court case were George Thorne appearance payments. 

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Transfer fees for players above the figure agreed by the board.

Wages in excess of what was agreed by the board.

Excessive fees to agents unauthorised by the board."

This still baffles me as to how our CFO at the time wasn't either implicated or negligent if the charges were really that simple. Probably explains why MM promoted him to the board so that this cant happen again.

1 hour ago, Ewe Ram said:

Whats the issue with Mac’s son? Because of who his dad is? Not his fault what his dad did.  Failing? Obviously Frank doesn’t think so, or he’d be gone. 

I hadn't actually realised that Mac's son was still scouting for us. You think they wouldn't have ditched him in a heartbeat when Mac got ditched the second time? There were loads of people on here calling nepotism when he got the job, but Mel obviously rates him and that's good enough for me. No scout is ever going to get it right 100%

I actually sat behind Joe at a game once when I was on a corporate jolly and the guy made pages and pages of notes throughout the game - that doesn't make him good or bad - but showed some commitment. He could have just been in the back eating canapes and taking the pay check

 

[Day]

The cost of promotion last season. Ouch.

 

[Uptherams]

I was reading yesterday about more details on the Premier League overseas TV rights and analysts have predicted that it will rise by the same figure it has this time around, approx 40% for 4 cycles. Which means in 2028 the bottom club would receive £150m just from the overseas deal. Add in parachute payments and the domestic deal, promotion will be worth around £300m in less than 10 years. That's insane!!! 

[angieram]

17 minutes ago, David said:

The cost of promotion last season. Ouch.

This is what we're constantly up against. Would have breached FFP if they didn't go up  (I asked.) 

We could have beaten them in that semi-final if we'd played to win and they'd have been in big trouble.

Seems unfair to me that the points deduction would have been this season, though, when the real advantage was obviously in their promotion season - at the expense of clubs like us who try to comply.

[Day]

14 minutes ago, angieram said:

This is what we're constantly up against. Would have breached FFP if they didn't go up  (I asked.) 

We could have beaten them in that semi-final if we'd played to win and they'd have been in big trouble.

Seems unfair to me that the points deduction would have been this season, though, when the real advantage was obviously in their promotion season - at the expense of clubs like us who try to comply.

The gamble paid off for them, for us it didn’t. Odds are not great as they spoke about at the forum with fans expectations.

Some clubs really do go down the poo or bust route, would have been interesting to see how different this season could have been for both Cardiff and Fulham had it not paid off.

Despite the money we have spent the club has remained FFP compliant whilst competitive at the top end of the table, yet some blast the club and wanted us to be more like Fulham. 

To be honest I don’t think any club can do right in the Fans minds unless they go up, it’s either promotion or why can’t we be.....a club that was losing £4.4m a month. Madness.

[angieram]

7 minutes ago, David said:

The gamble paid off for them, for us it didn’t. Odds are not great as they spoke about at the forum with fans expectations.

Some clubs really do go down the poo or bust route, would have been interesting to see how different this season could have been for both Cardiff and Fulham had it not paid off.

Despite the money we have spent the club has remained FFP compliant whilst competitive at the top end of the table, yet some blast the club and wanted us to be more like Fulham. 

To be honest I don’t think any club can do right in the Fans minds unless they go up, it’s either promotion or why can’t we be.....a club that was losing £4.4m a month. Madness.

I agree and while some are complaining about the way Mel Morris backed us financially as we "gambled" on success, as you say we still did it while complying with FFP.

Fulham were operating with generous parachute payments, yet still broke FFP guidelines.

This just demonstrates to me how well we are run, rather than how badly.

I've not watched the Fans Forum back yet, but I think one of the tweets on the night quoted Mel as saying he's learned from his previous experiences in this regard, hence the changed policy with growing our own and more sensible buys.

People who slate the Waghorn signing will only quote the transfer fee (which is relatively modest at this level nowadays), but when you factor in that he will be on a lot lower wages than the player/s he's replacing (Jerome, Martin, Blackman) in the end he will be a less expensive purchase.

Maybe for another thread, but I do wonder how much longer this imbalance over FFP will remain? Re-naming it won't solve the problem, it needs drastic surgery!

[Angry Ram]

2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

 

still cant wait to hear the Mrs ince scouting services justification if that ever comes to light 

I am guessing that this was done to avoid someone paying taxes somewhere. Probably on the advice of some clever accountant. In isolation, maybe not such a big issue (if someone actually worked for it). 

[ramsbottom]

15 hours ago, Norman said:

I think Sam Rush actually did a good job.

We nearly went up.

He then did a good job of getting Thorne  and Ince etc for low fees.

Stopping Bryson going to Burnley. I am ITK on that one, and he had gone before Rush worked his magic.

We went after a targets and got them for a seemingly very good price.....

Dum dum deeeeeerrrrr

I don't think we should be praising him for that one...

[Day]

13 minutes ago, angieram said:

Maybe for another thread, but I do wonder how much longer this imbalance over FFP will remain? Re-naming it won't solve the problem, it needs drastic surgery!

I think we’re in danger of sounding bitter if we complain too much about FFP having had our real push not pay off, they do need to level the playing field for the good of the game though.

[Comrade 86]

40 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

I am guessing that this was done to avoid someone paying taxes somewhere. Probably on the advice of some clever accountant. In isolation, maybe not such a big issue (if someone actually worked for it). 

Good shout Angry one. You're not as green as you're cabbage-looking.

[Nuwtfly]

Loads of really positive soundbites from that fans forum/PR exercise, but I do find the seemingly building tension between club and local media quite uncomfortable.

The media should be allowed to speak about the club without being influenced by them, and even telling people "say what you like but be positive" doesn't really sit right with me. "All the deamons are on the outside..." Deamons? Really, Mel?

Free press n'all that. 

[LazloW]

7 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Loads of really positive soundbites from that fans forum/PR exercise, but I do find the seemingly building tension between club and local media quite uncomfortable.

The media should be allowed to speak about the club without being influenced by them, and even telling people "say what you like but be positive" doesn't really sit right with me. "All the deamons are on the outside..." Deamons? Really, Mel?

Free press n'all that. 

I don’t disagree that RD (who I assume he is referring to) should be allowed to say what they like.  Equally, if the club find RD’s attitude less than helpful, then they should be allowed to say that too.  I doubt it will change RD’s approach one iota.

There has been tension between the club and RD for as long as I can remember (to differing degrees).  Nothing changes really.  Mel shouldn’t have said anything though because it just allows RD to become even more smug than they already are and gives them some supposed moral high ground that they don’t deserve.

 

 

[Nuwtfly]

11 minutes ago, LazloW said:

There has been tension between the club and RD for as long as I can remember (to differing degrees).  Nothing changes really.  Mel shouldn’t have said anything though because it just allows RD to become even more smug than they already are and gives them some supposed moral high ground that they don’t deserve.

 

 

Are they smug? I don't really get that impression, so what makes you say that?

I think Ed and Craig can get a bit emotive at the games - but I don't understand why that's suddenly become such a problem? Didn't see many complaints when they were rightly pulling apart Rowett's choices/tactics last season. 

A club telling the local media how to behave just doesn't sit right with me. 

[AdamRam]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

I agree and while some are complaining about the way Mel Morris backed us financially as we "gambled" on success, as you say we still did it while complying with FFP.

Fulham were operating with generous parachute payments, yet still broke FFP guidelines.

This just demonstrates to me how well we are run, rather than how badly.

FFP is designed though to keep the league competitive, not a bench mark on how the club is run. We are still losing several million per month, so I’m not sure how that demonstrates the club is being run well ?

The club are looking for investment to take us forward because the losses imo will become unsustainable at some point, not sure that staying within FFP really has anything to do with that other than curb our spending ?

[PrivateDerby]

So.... 

Are we gonna be alright or not? 

[Stive Pesley]

3 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

FFP is designed though to keep the league competitive, not a bench mark on how the club is run.

Is that still true? They seemed to be saying that it wasn't called "Financial Fair Play" any more but "Profitability & Sustainability"

That suggests the focus is moving away from levelling the playing field (admitting that things will never be "level" due to the mammoth parachute payments) - and more towards making sure the clubs don't spend in an unsustainable way

[MackworthRamIsGod]

15 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Are they smug? I don't really get that impression, so what makes you say that?

I think Ed and Craig can get a bit emotive at the games - but I don't understand why that's suddenly become such a problem? Didn't see many complaints when they were rightly pulling apart Rowett's choices/tactics last season. 

A club telling the local media how to behave just doesn't sit right with me. 

Radio Derby get a lot of stick and most of it uncalled for.

They don't have the luxury of pictures or flashy moving replays, they are having to describe what they are seeing.

If after the 10th successive backwards pass Ramage gets frustrated he is probably sharing my same frustration.

If we are playing crap I want to be told that, if we are playing well please let me know.

[Angry Ram]

52 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Loads of really positive soundbites from that fans forum/PR exercise, but I do find the seemingly building tension between club and local media quite uncomfortable.

The media should be allowed to speak about the club without being influenced by them, and even telling people "say what you like but be positive" doesn't really sit right with me. "All the deamons are on the outside..." Deamons? Really, Mel?

Free press n'all that. 

Yes, free press but they have a responsibility in that.

I am glad we are not pandering to any press, local or national. The whole journalist / press thing has morphed into a huge negative in a blind drive to create a story. If there ain't one, make one up. That deserves NO RESPECT whatsoever. In fact it deserves what it gets. 

The press should always be accountable and should not be able to hide behind free speech / free press.