Transitional season - who's buying it

[Mostyn6]

"transition" is not a valid reason for underperformance.

Even poor players should be playing to 7/10 relative to ability. We know when even the lesser talented players are playing their best, and it's hard to honestly suggest that more than 1 or 2 per game in the last half-dozen league games have reached 7/10

Transition can be used as mitigation for the balance of the team, the collective age of the team, the lack or transfer activity etc.

[lrm14]

I'm genuinely not sure how you can call this season anything other than transitional when we're literally transitioning from one style of play to a vastly different one. I can understand people being upset when they look at us slipping away and feel that it's a missed opportunity, but that doesn't change the fact that we're moving from hoofball to football and that sort of thing takes a lot of time. By the very definition of the word, we're in transition.

[Highgate]

You could argue that the transitional period of any manager's reign lasts until he has removed the players from the inherited squad that he has little or no use for.  Clearly FL has a long way to go in that regard.  Busy summer ahead.

 

 

 

[cannable]

5 minutes ago, Highgate said:

You could argue that the transitional period of any manager's reign lasts until he has removed the players from the inherited squad that he has little or no use for.  Clearly FL has a long way to go in that regard.  Busy summer ahead.

 

 

 

The theory behind a director of football and managers who share similar views on football is to rid clubs of transitional periods. It’s why the transition from Clough to McClaren was smooth. Clough has us playing good football, he was just tactically poor and a poor coach.

[Marriot Ram99]

8 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

I'm genuinely not sure how you can call this season anything other than transitional when we're literally transitioning from one style of play to a vastly different one. I can understand people being upset when they look at us slipping away and feel that it's a missed opportunity, but that doesn't change the fact that we're moving from hoofball to football and that sort of thing takes a lot of time. By the very definition of the word, we're in transition.

We haven't seen much "football" recently though have we ? Just pure dross that is even worse than Rowett ball was, we have managed 2 goals and hardly any clear cut chances  in the last 4 against Bottom of the league Ipswich, Brighton's  bench and reserves, Millwall and Forest who are a bang average . This is not all Lampard's fault as Mount has been out injured and the other midfielders are playing like League 1 players, but there is no point trying to play good football with a terrible midfield that rely on Keogh and Tomori to play make. If we don't invest heavily or extremely astutely like Norwich have done ,next season I fear we will be lucky to finish in the top half never mind Top 6.

[Mostyn6]

31 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

I'm genuinely not sure how you can call this season anything other than transitional when we're literally transitioning from one style of play to a vastly different one.

can you honestly say that is happening? I'd say we successfully transitioned, and have now reverted back.

[angieram]

34 minutes ago, cannable said:

The theory behind a director of football and managers who share similar views on football is to rid clubs of transitional periods. It’s why the transition from Clough to McClaren was smooth. Clough has us playing good football, he was just tactically poor and a poor coach.

This is a really key point.

A good club should be 'in transition' all the time, looking to hone, refine, develop new talent and plan when to replace players as they age. This only works if the club has an identifiable style of play and it either keeps faith with one manager of recruits to the same style.

We've chopped and changed styles as well as managers and this is why we have a team that doesn't fit any one style.

Have we learned from this and are we going to stick with what I think Morris (owner) and Lampard and Morris (coach) are trying to achieve and were demonstrating earlier in the season? If we are, we need patience and TIME. Don't just expect transition this season but for the next few.

Or are we going to value promotion over all else and revert to a results over style type of play "because that's what works for others"? That's what some on this and other threads seem to be saying.

I agree the style is hard to recognise at the moment but I think that's more down to the dreadful luck we've had with injuries to key players than that we don't know what we're doing. Couple this with having to use players that previous managers bought in for another style altogether then there's no wonder we're struggling.

Like many other others I haven't enjoyed the performances recently, but I have seen enough this season to know that I've rather be aiming for the type of football we can play under Lampard and Morris with the right personnel, than throwing it all up in the air AGAIN to win promotion at all costs.

If we were 10th now and bringing through a few younger players I think we'd be generally happier as a fanbase than we are having been so tantalisingly close again and seeing those expectation levels rise. We'd probably be seeing better football too with less stress  for players and fans (even if the results weren't so good.)

Maybe IF we all relax a bit it will still happen this season. I've decided I'm cool either way!

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Woodypecker said:

Saying nothing new, probably but FWIW here's my outlook.

This season has been transitional, the age profile and balance of the squad has been addressed; we are an unexceptional team and yet again cannot sustain the resilience and quality needed to remain among the front-runners.

We still need 20-25 points to make the play-offs. It's down to the players to produce, Frank has what he has, at the moment.

Whatever happens - status-wise as Championship club Prem - and hopefully with the same manager, summertime will be a REAL transition.  FFS, look at the players that will go (or need to go IMHO) and there will be one big overhaul:

That's 22 players. Feel free to add /subtract / disagree - but that's my view.

 

Based on the players you've listed, I can only assume you don't believe in 'squad players' and believe the backups should be just as good as the first choice picks. A large portion of your picks make sense - they're out of contract or ending their loans (bold).

Carson

Wisdom, Pearce, Keogh, Tomori, Davies, Olsson, Lowe, Forsyth, Cole

Huddlestone, Johnson, Thorne, Butterfield, Bryson, Wilson, Mount

Blackman, Bennett, Anya

Martin, Nugent

 

Leaving behind:

Roos, Mitchell; Bogle, Ambrose, Malone; Bird, Evans, Holmes, King (you expect him to stay with us?); Waghorn, Thomas, Lawrence, Jozefzoon; Marriott.

I can't help but feel the players you want out are better than the ones you want to keep.

 

I'm struggling to think of any out of contract player staying with us next season, including Roos. Roos will want to be first choice and I doubt we can promise him that. Therefore, Carson will stay.

In my honest opinion, Tomori, Mount and Wilson are very likely to return to us next season as the extra year at this level will benefit them due to still having a lot to learn. Tomori in the air, Mount's fitness and more end product, Wilson's general play on and off the ball.

There's no way Keogh will be shipped out as he'll be our only recognised CB (Davies doesn't fit the style of CB we require). Lowe will come back and compete with Malone. Another serious injury for Forsyth means he'll be difficult to move on. I see him becoming CB backup when he's back.

Thorne doesn't seem to be getting the luck he needs to force his way back into our team. He may be fortunate in us having so few options in the middle next season (4 out of contract and 3 returning from loan spells).

Bennett is our most creative winger (key passes per game) and contributes more defensively than any other. He's at least worthy of keeping at great backup. Needs to push on and get more goals/assists to his name though. Staying free from injuries will help. Anya needs to leave both for his (if he's interested in playing football) and the club's sake. 1 more year left on his contract though.

At the start of the season I was thinking his time with us was up. Frank wanted to play a high pressing game which doesn't suit him. However, as the season's progressed, his playing style will offer us something different in games against deep sitting opposition.

 

At the very least, in the summer we will need: GK, CB, CM x2, CF. A RB too if Wisdom is to leave

[lukedcfc]

What is the answer to breaking defensive sides down? Does this need to be a transition as well?

[lrm14]

1 hour ago, Moist One said:

can you honestly say that is happening? I'd say we successfully transitioned, and have now reverted back.

Yeah I think it is still happening, we've just hit a few barriers. I think one of the problems is we're not experienced enough in our new style to know how to react to opposing teams in certain situations, that's both down to the players and the management. In terms of how that's in part down to the players, think Harry Wilson screaming for the ball at his feet constantly against Millwall once he'd drifted into a small amount of space and whoever is on the ball playing the easy option backwards or out wide. In terms of management the lack of a plan B is evident, it was a bit naive of Lampard to get rid all big men at the club when we don't possess a midfield with the technical ability to consistently create chances for strikers such as Marriott or Waghorn.

There are plenty of other reasons as to why we're playing poorly at the moment, however I feel a big part of it is that other teams have figured out how to deal with us and we're not experienced enough in our style to have immediate answers. Don't get me wrong though, if we're running into the same problems next season and still facing the same problems then I'll agree that we've regressed.

[cannable]

7 minutes ago, lukedcfc said:

What is the answer to breaking defensive sides down? Does this need to be a transition as well?

That’s coaching. That’s third man runs and rotation. Although some of it is slightly down the personnel. 

[Woodypecker]

I listed the 'squad players' that I am sure will leave - for various reasons we know, such as the young, promising loans, the contract-expirers, as well as those that I anticipate being moved on, or who I feel the club should replace.

They do represent a large chunk of the whole 'squad' but I simply was being specific about my anticipated departures. Anyone knows it is a squad game and something like 22 - 30 players (or more) are needed for injury and suspension cover, options for type of opposition and so on. I think we have named about 40 players so far this season in matchday squads.

I wasn't giving a retained list too, or nominating Academy graduates or promoted bench-warmers - merely saying which players I'd specifically expect to depart. If any of that other list (of yours, GoC) are retained, or sold/loaned, so be it. The rest of the squad is....just that!

Yes I have listed some younger, so-called promising players like Bennett - he can be fleetingly effective but produces too little, when fit, in the final analysis, End product, output, goals....if only! Happy if he stays and makes it - great! But breath-holding is hazardous!

I included RK as I think significant new blood is needed there. A fresh, strong head in defence or midfield for me, please. RK was arguably better in the brief spells when he was 'just' a defender and I'll live with the opinion that Frank might well have restored the armband to Curtis had injuries not intervened.

A (usually) solid Championship defender but not a leader IMHO and for all his appearances, can only list consecutive 'near things' when it comes to tangible achievements.

I can only recall those leaders of past eras that I have seen, since the Clough (Snr) times in the late 1960s, who counted only a fraction of the longevity comparatively, but could show medals and glories - we achieved - and I count amongst them Mackay, Hindmarch, Van der Laan, Oakley - short Derby careers but telling ones.

We don't honestly seem very close to emulating them right now.

[lrm14]

2 hours ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

We haven't seen much "football" recently though have we ? Just pure dross that is even worse than Rowett ball was, we have managed 2 goals and hardly any clear cut chances  in the last 4 against Bottom of the league Ipswich, Brighton's  bench and reserves, Millwall and Forest who are a bang average . This is not all Lampard's fault as Mount has been out injured and the other midfielders are playing like League 1 players, but there is no point trying to play good football with a terrible midfield that rely on Keogh and Tomori to play make. If we don't invest heavily or extremely astutely like Norwich have done ,next season I fear we will be lucky to finish in the top half never mind Top 6.

Yeah the football we've seen recently has been dire but as you said it's to do with our midfield just not being good enough at the moment. Teams have realised that without Mount the answer to stopping us is to just press Huddlestone, mark Wilson and congest the center because we don't have the crossing ability nor a big man to abuse from out wide.

What worries me the most about our midfield is that recently Huddlestone has been really struggling to play himself out of players marking him and his passing has started to go wayward. With him and Bryson out of contract the midfield is going to need some serious investment in the summer or I can see us running into the same problems.

Unless of course there's an u23's player who can possibly make the step up although I've not seen much of them this season and Bird was very poor in the Southampton game so he might not be ready.

[Highgate]

3 hours ago, cannable said:

The theory behind a director of football and managers who share similar views on football is to rid clubs of transitional periods. It’s why the transition from Clough to McClaren was smooth. Clough has us playing good football, he was just tactically poor and a poor coach.

Seamless transitions from manager to manager, all of them working to a guiding principle of how the club should play football is clearly one area where Mel's running of the club has fallen short of the ideal (to say the least).  FL can't be blamed for that naturally, but he has had to deal with the consequences of it.  Not easy for a novice manager. 

[Millenniumram]

4 hours ago, cannable said:

The theory behind a director of football and managers who share similar views on football is to rid clubs of transitional periods. It’s why the transition from Clough to McClaren was smooth. Clough has us playing good football, he was just tactically poor and a poor coach.

Damn right, why I’ve been calling for a dof for years. Make us much less chaotic and more consistent behind the scenes

[RamsFan10]

I'm hoping that after the dead wood/ big contracts leave at the end of the season, and we compose a new team of cheap league 1 buys, loans and some youth players, things click into place. Lampard could end up being one of those managers that do well whilst keeping budget down. Brentford or Bristol -esque.

[NottsRam77]

On 26/02/2019 at 20:13, Inglorius said:

A valid reason to mitigate the uneven levels of performance or a total excuse to cover up managerial and club deficiencies. Discuss.  

Transition 

too much of it previously... way way way too much 

it’s pretty simple

if for one reason or another ur a football club that gets through managers at a rate of one a season for lets say for 5 years 

then every time a new man walks in through the door with his new ideas and philosophies and he gets backed and allowed to bring in his own players then every season he them moves on for whatever reason clubs like us and the many around us start collecting a pile of players who don’t fit anyone’s ideas 

which then puts u into the position we find ourselves where we’re counting the days down til x numbers contracts are up and we can go down yet another new route 

this season was always going to be tough largely due to the huge contracts and wages mr rush handed out to his boys 

am I a happy bunny atm ???...no .. I live in f ing Nottingham, far from it im right ticked off atm with frank with the players etc etc but it for me this season was all about transition and the back of the likes of Bradley, butterfield Blackman and co who epitomise the last few years ... not good enough 

[ariotofmyown]

16 hours ago, Chester40 said:

But if she sells sea shells....?

How did this not get loads of likes!!

[plymouthram]

On 26/02/2019 at 20:33, SuperDerbySuperRams said:

I don’t understand how a season where 3 of our best performers have been loanees and won’t be here next season can be termed a transition season...

If anything, with so many players out of contract in the summer, next season is the transition season. This season has been a missed opportunity...

Have you thrown in the towel. We was never going to bring in lots of quality players of our own, being close to restrictions with FFP. Selling Vydra helped us in bringing in Evans, Malone, Marriott, Waghorn and Jozefzoon. You can argue that they are not good enough, but budgets will only allow certain standards of players. I feel we made mistakes bringing in Pearson, Clement and Rowett who bought in players that were not good enough to improve the side at the times they did. So you could say we have been in transitional status for more than one season with all the chopping and changing of players and managers. I feel Frank is now at the stage where Nigel was at when he took over from Jewell. Having lots of players to get rid of and managing on a small budget. The only difference in Franks first season, we are still in with a chance of promotion. We can only say its a missed opportunity when we are totally out of the promotion frame. With 13 games to play its still possible and even if we sneak into 6th spot after Westbrom at home, its still possible.

[Sparkle]

Probably a clearing of the decks season