lrm14 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Inglorius said: You asked me what the difference was between us and the clubs you mentioned and I replied. Factually it is true and valid. Factually it's true but it's still not relevant to what I'm talking about. I'm referring to the point about loan signings 'should be used to compliment the existing squad not to make up for their core deficiencies'. All the clubs I named are making up their core deficiencies by turning to the loan market but when we do it, it's seemingly a negative thing. The loan market is becoming almost compulsory at this point to get out the division and we're no different from anyone else. I understand the worry many others have in that come the end of the season we're going to be missing three big components to our team in Wilson, Mount and Tomori but I think we've done a good job this season in demonstrating that we're a good club to give your best prospects too. A huge number of players go on loan in this division every year and if we're still here next year, I don't see why we won't be able to attract players of a similar calibre. It's not the loans that worry me, we'll get more, it's who we replace our out of contract players with because we've got some fairly big dressing room players leaving. 22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Personally I'm more concerned our the rest of the squad - how many loans shall we aim for to make good our deficiencies? Yeah it's the rest of the squad that bothers me too, we'll be able to supplement our squad with loans next season without a problem but the more important part is the permanent signings we bring in. I think a big part depends on how much money Frank is give in the summer and whether or not we renew some of the big contracts such as Bryson or Huddlestone. If we don't renew them we'll have freed up a lot of wages but we'll be going into next season with a very new squad. Our squad has been left in such messy state by previous managers that we're looking at a one and a half/two year transition which is admittedly a bleak prospect but it's our own fault for being so trigger happy with past managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Cam the Ram said: I can accept that it's a transitional season in the sense of we're trying to rebuild the squad and will unlikely be competing at the top, but it's such a poor thing to bring up in relation to recent performances. Even in a transitional season the results and levels of performance against the likes of Millwall, Bolton, Rotherham and Ipswich have been unacceptable Why though? Those teams all have something in common and thus it points to a weakness in our side that needs working on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsy1884 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 This season was more about getting by with one last hurrah for the old guard. Most of them will be gone in the summer. A true clean slate as it were. There will be no war chest though FFP and our years of overspend are catching up now. I wouldn't be surpised to see 5 loan players next season maybe as many as 3 from Chelsea. There are some on their books who are perennial loanees who are very capable at this level. Kalas and Hector spring to mind. Wilson and Mount will be long gone though. Ontop of the loans get some shrewd signings from league 1 mixed with a few free agents or purchases from lower league prem teams. FL is arguably our biggest asset this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 9 hours ago, BurtonRam7 said: 16/17: 17/18: 18/19: Good things take time. Norwich are better this year because they got rid of that cheating,diving,git. Next season will be transitional for us. This season is like one of those nights out that go horribly,you’ve had a great time but end up going to a club,spend all your money,throw up and get your nose broken. The way we’re going we might end up locked up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 10 hours ago, Remy the hare said: When we are seeing the seeds sewn this season for next season with what we are currently seeing. But if she sells sea shells....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Sheffield United and Brighton come to mind- both sides took a few seasons to get to the performance levels they are at now. Sheff united more recently of course. This obsession with instant success is one of the worst parts of the game for me. The amount of clubs constantly sacking managers. I am sure there are plenty of examples where managers have been poor but in the long run turned it all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 12 hours ago, Inglorius said: Genuine question what is the point of getting loan players in for a season to then get another set of loan players in the next season and then a different set of loan players after that and so on If those loan players perform well and we get promoted, then we can be in the driving seat to sign them up in the Prem. OK, that might look unlikely right now but I didn't see people complaining when Mount, Wilson & Tomori came here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 13 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: Yes. If it was a transition season why not try out more of the youngsters and look for better value signings? It seems the 'transition' label is a late excuse. What is there to build on next season then? I think this is fair. It is very difficult to see what we are transitioning towards. Perhaps it's a transition season for Frank, from player to manager. I suppose you could argue it has been a transition season for the style of football - from brilliant at the start to bloody awful now!! Seriously though, it seems to be the first of a few seasons finally clearing out the costly mistakes of large and long contracts towards a new system of younger players, lower wages and hopefully shorter contracts. Surely with so many players out of contract in the summer, it will only be this summer and next season that Frank can start to properly build, so next year is more likely to be a transition season than this. This season has been more about learning the job, holding the fort and doing his best with plenty of players either here or on loan who won't be here next season. At the start, a lot of people said this season is a free hit for Frank, and that's what it's turning out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, VulcanRam said: Seriously though, it seems to be the first of a few seasons finally clearing out the costly mistakes of large and long contracts towards a new system of younger players, lower wages and hopefully shorter contracts. I wonder if it's too easy to say that the only way to deal with 'costly mistakes' is to wait out their contracts? Afterall look what Snake managed with Vydra... So it sounds like FL is to be the new Clough Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I wonder if it's too easy to say that the only way to deal with 'costly mistakes' is to wait out their contracts? Afterall look what Snake managed with Vydra... So it sounds like FL is to be the new Clough Jr. Yes but Vydra had value and had the chance to move to the PL and presumably a healthier contact. You can't say the same about Johnson, Butterfield, Martin, Anya etc. To sell a player, you need a buyer prepared to offer what the player wants, and the player needs to want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 39 minutes ago, Wolfie said: If those loan players perform well and we get promoted, then we can be in the driving seat to sign them up in the Prem. OK, that might look unlikely right now but I didn't see people complaining when Mount, Wilson & Tomori came here. I don't think people are complaining about them now. They've done really well. If we go up, we would presumably have every chance of getting them back on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 4 hours ago, coneheadjohn said: Norwich are better this year because they got rid of that cheating,diving,git. Next season will be transitional for us. This season is like one of those nights out that go horribly,you’ve had a great time but end up going to a club,spend all your money,throw up and get your nose broken. The way we’re going we might end up locked up as well. and if you listen to some posters on this board we might wake up in the morning with an unexpected fugly munter, having started the evening with a classy lady........? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 59 minutes ago, VulcanRam said: I don't think people are complaining about them now. They've done really well. If we go up, we would presumably have every chance of getting them back on loan. I agree. I was replying to the post saying what's the point of having the loan players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Frank will be judged on next season, he will need to recruit well in the summer, to not only plug the current gaps at centre back, midfield and striker but also replace Mount and Wilson. His other issue is that he dosnt have an asset to sell, Ince, Hughes and Vydra are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 13 hours ago, Mr Tibbs said: Whilst Mount and Wilson have qualities that are above this level they're also far from the finished articles. Are we going to miss them that much? Who's to say they aren't our current achilles heel? Wilson's dead ball skills will be sorely missed as he's a different class in that respect. But looking at the players that will still be here; Waggy was a dead ball specialist for Ipswich last season and Lawrence is decent from time to time so until they're given a chance again we'll never know. Does he offer enough in open play? I see a lot of comments about the midfield on here about how the balance is all wrong, he's a massive part of that imbalance. (As was Mount pre-injury). Mount is a better player that we've not seen the best of here IMO. How can we miss someone that hasn't performed consistently for months though? I appreciate we miss the quality that he could potentially bring but it's not been there for most of the season so is it that big of an issue? He's kinda riding off that early season form. Until we've had the summer come and go and Frank's done some wheeling and dealing I'm not going to worry too much about losing the pair of them. In an ideal world we bring in a couple of midfielders that fit straight in and fix all our current midfield downfalls. Midfielders that will bring the best out of players around them and get us playing much more as a cohesive unit. This! Mount and Wilson are talented younsgters and they have contributed, however I do t think they are particularly suited to the style of play in this division. We bring in two or three good quality champ cms in the summer and we could look a completely different outfit. Weve often struggled with our soft under belly in this division.....even during the Mac days I remember us getting done over at home by a well drilled, aggressive, 10 behind the ball Wigan team and it continues to be a problem. We never seem to have the power and desire to go toe to toe with them. To get out of this division you need to grind out results against the teams who play for a point. We don’t have the squad to do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Rambe33 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Sheff Utd, Brighton, Norwich* tbc, Leeds* tbc, Burnley, Wolves (appreciate a little different in terms of the money), Southampton, Bournemouth, Watford. All examples of those who did it gradually by building a nucleus and adding to it. If we are smart in terms of identifying what we need next season in terms of securing a strong core in the squad we could be in for a good season. That being said, we are still in the run this season, its in our hands and up to the players to put us firmly back on the palyoff radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboy63 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Lets not kid ourselves and hide behind its a transition season none of us were saying that before Xmas and its a lame excuse,we had more than enough fire power to have got in the play offs comfortably if not even top two We are in one of our worst spells for results and performances for years,14 points from 12 games is diabolical and its not as if FL as any excuse as the majority of players that played against the Dogs are his players,he needs to crack the whip as we still have chance yet to get top 6.This season as been an incredible opportunity to go up as no team as run away with the league and it terms of quality you could throw a blanket over the top 7 or 8 teams so all to play for,however we need to improve starting this weekend Next season is were the transition excuse will probably be used due to so many players coming to the end of there contracts and all the loans going back to there parent clubs,i can see dark times ahead if MM is not prepared to dig deep again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodypecker Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Saying nothing new, probably but FWIW here's my outlook. This season has been transitional, the age profile and balance of the squad has been addressed; we are an unexceptional team and yet again cannot sustain the resilience and quality needed to remain among the front-runners. We still need 20-25 points to make the play-offs. It's down to the players to produce, Frank has what he has, at the moment. Whatever happens - status-wise as Championship club Prem - and hopefully with the same manager, summertime will be a REAL transition. FFS, look at the players that will go (or need to go IMHO) and there will be one big overhaul: Butterfield Johnson Martin Bryson Thorne Anya Olsson Forsyth Lowe Pearce Blackman Nugent Huddlestone Wisdom Bennett Davies Carson Cole Keogh Tomori Wilson Mount That's 22 players. Feel free to add /subtract / disagree - but that's my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Massive missed opportunity this season...just like last season...and the season before...and the one before that...etc etc transitional season is all just a pathetic excuse we have thrown enough money at it to be much better off than we currently are..but we will end up 8th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Ramarena said: This! Mount and Wilson are talented younsgters and they have contributed, however I do t think they are particularly suited to the style of play in this division. We bring in two or three good quality champ cms in the summer and we could look a completely different outfit. Weve often struggled with our soft under belly in this division.....even during the Mac days I remember us getting done over at home by a well drilled, aggressive, 10 behind the ball Wigan team and it continues to be a problem. We never seem to have the power and desire to go toe to toe with them. To get out of this division you need to grind out results against the teams who play for a point. We don’t have the squad to do that! Oh come on, Uwe Rossler would just tell his side to flat out kick lumps out of us. THIS wasn’t even a foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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