Bogle

[DCFC1388]

Not sure how he is escaping criticism? 

Frank is taking a lot of the blame which yeh he is the manager but i'm pretty sure during training he doesnt ask the players to be so poor on the ball.

But back to Bogle, yes he is young so he gets cut some slack but for all the doom and gloom, our last 3 league goals have all come from mistakes or very bad decision making by Bogle

Ipswich - short freekick to him, he tries a pass that isnt on, counter, goal

Millwall - misjudges a simple header, counter, goal

Forest - misjudges a simple header, goal

So for all the poor play or lack of creativity from us etc etc the last 3 goals have come our own mistakes.

Now waiting to get blasted because we cant have a go at someone so young ?

[Sparkle]

You are correct, he has had nice moments this season but there is a time and a place to rest youngsters especially when you have a decent player to replace them with and we do with wisdom.

for me he needed resting about a month ago but his mistakes have been basic and most lead the game defining moments 

[Ambitious]

He's a young player, with a decent amount of potential that could potentially fund our next scouting disaster. I'd rather sweep this under the rug TBH. 

For what it's worth, he was obviously at fault for the goal, but thought he did well defensively after that. No player on the pitch was dispossessed more than Osborn and no player on the pitch made more tackles than Bogle. He just lacks an end product, which will come with time. He's 18 and a fine option at this level already. I'd stick with him, who knows, we may even get a £20m bid from a German club for his services the rate they're going! 

[ThePrisoner]

For all his mistakes he’s made down to his inexperience and age, he isn’t at fault for our mostly invisible midfield and lack of creating chances. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

14 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Not sure how he is escaping criticism? 

Frank is taking a lot of the blame which yeh he is the manager but i'm pretty sure during training he doesnt ask the players to be so poor on the ball.

But back to Bogle, yes he is young so he gets cut some slack but for all the doom and gloom, our last 3 league goals have all come from mistakes or very bad decision making by Bogle

Ipswich - short freekick to him, he tries a pass that isnt on, counter, goal

Millwall - misjudges a simple header, counter, goal

Forest - misjudges a simple header, goal

So for all the poor play or lack of creativity from us etc etc the last 3 goals have come our own mistakes.

Now waiting to get blasted because we cant have a go at someone so young ?

You won’t get blasted because everything you say is correct. 

 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Just now, ThePrisoner said:

For all his mistakes he’s made down to his inexperience and age, he isn’t at fault for our mostly invisible midfield and lack of creating chances. 

Obviously not

[DCFC1388]

17 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said:

For all his mistakes he’s made down to his inexperience and age, he isn’t at fault for our mostly invisible midfield and lack of creating chances. 

Correct but his mistakes have resulted in teams being able to sit in and make us try and break them down which we're struggling to do. Don't make the mistakes and gift the goals and none of those 3 teams really threatened too much other than that. We could be 4 points better off and unbeaten during the 'February Wobble' despite playing poorly.

[BOB BIGGS]

Defenders make mistakes, always have. There’s no guarantee that a replacement would be error free, in fact quite the opposite. It’s even worse for goalkeepers.

Midfielders and forwards make mistakes too, always have. However, their mistakes tend not to lead to goals against.

It has always been this way. Supporters used to accept that the game was being played by humans and thus mistakes would happen. That’s changed and it’s now  a steward’s inquiry into every goal against. Thanks to the media experts for that ( particularly those pundit defenders who used to make mistakes when they were playing?).

I just accept it as part of the game, particularly from those just learning the ropes. I don’t like it but there’s not a deal that can be done with the squad we have. We are a mid table Championship team, striving to improve against all kinds of difficulties. Not Barcelona, not PSG, not Manchester City. Just good old Derby County.

I find my tendency towards realism has helped me a lot over recent seasons? I actually think Frank might be the best chance we have in the short to medium term and that the likes of Bogle, Sibley, Thomas and a few other young ‘uns are our best hope of improvement. It’s some way off though.

 

[cheron85]

57 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Not sure how he is escaping criticism? 

Frank is taking a lot of the blame which yeh he is the manager but i'm pretty sure during training he doesnt ask the players to be so poor on the ball.

But back to Bogle, yes he is young so he gets cut some slack but for all the doom and gloom, our last 3 league goals have all come from mistakes or very bad decision making by Bogle

Ipswich - short freekick to him, he tries a pass that isnt on, counter, goal

Millwall - misjudges a simple header, counter, goal

Forest - misjudges a simple header, goal

So for all the poor play or lack of creativity from us etc etc the last 3 goals have come our own mistakes.

Now waiting to get blasted because we cant have a go at someone so young ?

I'm sorry - But blaming the defence and/or a single player for these results is nonsense

In all three games we have only conceded a single goal - But been universally poor at creating chances - We're a championship side and therefore mistakes are going to happen - But the lack of goalscoring chances for a 'potentially' top 6 side is where we're struggling

[Ghost of Clough]

It was a poor header for the goal, but I felt Roos could have come off his line to collect that header. In fact, the only player to challenge for the ball after that original header was Bogle - the rest did their best at impersonating statues.

[AdamRam]

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I'm sorry - But blaming the defence and/or a single player for these results is nonsense

In all three games we have only conceded a single goal - But been universally poor at creating chances - We're a championship side and therefore mistakes are going to happen - But the lack of goalscoring chances for a 'potentially' top 6 side is where we're struggling

Agreed, however we don’t help ourselves. For me the free kick that we gave away was ludicrous, 1 minute in and we put our defence under unnecessary pressure.  

[DCFC1388]

1 minute ago, cheron85 said:

I'm sorry - But blaming the defence and/or a single player for these results is nonsense

In all three games we have only conceded a single goal - But been universally poor at creating chances - We're a championship side and therefore mistakes are going to happen - But the lack of goalscoring chances for a 'potentially' top 6 side is where we're struggling

You say this but vs Ipswich we was winning and despite not being at our best we looked pretty comfortable, Ipswich weren't a huge threat. Without the mistake that could've been an extra 2 points.

Against Millwall, once again we didn't play well but without the mistake it would have been a poor 0-0 but still a point better off. Millwall offered next to no threat all game. Marriott had a decent chance, a fit Marriott would've scored imo

Last night, Waghorn missed a sitter but with the mistake and goal coming so early Forest were able to just sit back and make it difficult for us to break them down which is hard enough at 0-0 (as per Millwall)

So I think for you to say that blaming the defense is nonsense is nonsense in itself. Yes we have played poorly going forward but without the mistakes against Millwall & Ipswich we should have got 2 clean sheets and 4 points. 

Yes mistakes will happen as will games where we struggle to create chances but without the mistakes leading to conceding goals you can still pick up points when not creating much.

[EnigmaRam]

Totally agree with the OP. The problem I have is he isn’t great defensively, we all know that, he’s young and makes mistakes. So if he isn’t great defensively he needs to be good at attacking. However with no goals and 1 assist I think it is I’m not sure what he’s actually contributing.

wisdoms no better so I’m not sure where we go from here.

[ramboy63]

Yes Bogle is prone to a mistake and as cost us also,on the same token why as nobody mentioned the simplest of chances that fell to Waghorn last night its these chances that we are missing that are costing us more as and its not as if we are created loads every game,in fact it was the only one we created last night 

[DCFC1388]

1 minute ago, EnigmaRam said:

Totally agree with the OP. The problem I have is he isn’t great defensively, we all know that, he’s young and makes mistakes. So if he isn’t great defensively he needs to be good at attacking. However with no goals and 1 assist I think it is I’m not sure what he’s actually contributing.

wisdoms no better so I’m not sure where we go from here.

Personally I think Wisdom offers us more defensively, he is stronger and better in the air.  Bogle offers a lot more going forward than Wisdom does but his end product is woeful so for me I think i'd rather our back 4 be as solid as possible whilst going through this difficult patch.

[nottingram]

Conceding one goal against the three teams mentioned should still be enough to win every single one of those games.

Far far far more concerning is the fact we create absolutely jack poo against such poor sides

[The Key Club King]

It's arguable that Bogle may need a rest but Wisdom is an inadequate replacement. He offers little going forward and is not aggressive enough in the tackle. I think when Wisdom leaves Derby at the end of his contract (and not before as his wage is too high) he will drift down the divisions. 

Bogle is a prime example of the clamour to blood youth but not accepting that mistakes are inevitable when learning the game and wanting a quick fix solution. If we can't accept this then we may as well not have a youth team and give Ashley Cole, who had a far worse time last night than Bogle did, a five year contract. 

[The Key Club King]

1 hour ago, DCFC1388 said:

Not sure how he is escaping criticism? 

People are less likely to heavily criticise youth players (and young people in general) as they are thought to be more susceptible to criticism as it's more likely to destroy their confidence. This is entirely reasonable. 

[bcnram]

1 hour ago, DCFC1388 said:

Not sure how he is escaping criticism? 

Frank is taking a lot of the blame which yeh he is the manager but i'm pretty sure during training he doesnt ask the players to be so poor on the ball.

But back to Bogle, yes he is young so he gets cut some slack but for all the doom and gloom, our last 3 league goals have all come from mistakes or very bad decision making by Bogle

Ipswich - short freekick to him, he tries a pass that isnt on, counter, goal

Millwall - misjudges a simple header, counter, goal

Forest - misjudges a simple header, goal

So for all the poor play or lack of creativity from us etc etc the last 3 goals have come our own mistakes.

Now waiting to get blasted because we cant have a go at someone so young ?

Frank is rightly copping for the blame. If players are continually being poor on the ball then maybe the manager shouldn't be asking them to do things that they are not so great at.

As regards Bogle, for the Ipswich game he played a pass that I would expect any half decent player to make. The issue was that the player he passed to was sat on his heels (Holmes from memory), if he had taken just one step away, just a tinsy bit of movement, he would have retained the ball and been away from his marker.

To call the Millwall goal from a simple header was daft, it was a split second misjudgement and a more experienced cooler head would probably have sat back and run it back to the keeper.

The Forest goal if he looked at it, he would rather have just nodded it away for a corner. maybe that is what he was going to do and got caught in two minds. All part of learning for him. The bigger error was again someone standing unmarked on their own with a simple finish.

You have to understand kiddo it is all about split-seconds, he is in his first season in the big boys game, he is showing no signs of pressure getting to him, so leaving him out is not the right thing to do. He is a good player learning his trade. The problems lie further up the chain.

[NottsRam77]

He needs a timeout